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Why Colt??

Discussion in 'General Infiltration Discussion' started by sig229, Nov 10, 2000.

  1. Dupre

    Dupre Code Pimp

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    My point is that if you weighed the military might of the U.S. versus North Vietnam in a conventional war without any political boundaries, the U.S. will win because it is a war of attrition. Now, having that said, once politics are factored in, yes, a war of attrition would have spread outside the borders of the region and, no, the U.S. could not win since its military was never ordered to do so.
     
  2. Angel Of Death

    Angel Of Death New Member

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    ShakKen, you know as well as I do that almost everyone in Vietnam was either against fighting and just let themselves get shot, sucked sh*t at using a gun, or was stoned out of their mind.
     
  3. Angel Of Death

    Angel Of Death New Member

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    Also, Russia had its missiles set up in Cuba. So if we tried to nuke Vietnam or any other communist country we would've been destroyed as well which definately would've done us no good.
     
  4. 70sPornStar

    70sPornStar New Member

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    Well as Angel Of Death said, most of the American soldiers did not have the will to fight. America would have not won the war by throwing money at Vietnam. Lets see... Conscripted American soldiers, the majority not wanting to be there and also scared ****less, the VietCong, masters of Guerilla warfare, battle hardened (against the french) they had to fight or die, they had the willpower and the backing of most of the people.

    The Vietnam conflict was a complex situation, it was more a battle of minds than of weapons. America should have pulled out earlier and saved some bloodshed...
     
  5. Dupre

    Dupre Code Pimp

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    Pulling out of Vietnam was not an option. The Vietnam War is an odd political position; the U.S. couldn't push forward enough to win the war nor pull back enough to disengage itself. And that's why administration after administration chose the path of least resistance - keep the war going but not enough to win it. What's sad is that they considered that the only option.

    As to the conventional war argument, read your freakin' history. The U.S. had defeated the Viet Cong after their failed Tet offensive. The Viet Cong was smashed so badly that the remaining elements were folded into North Vietnamese regiments and ceased to exist as an independent fighting force. Months later during the U.S. pullout, the remaining U.S. forces defeated the only large armor attack by the North Vietnamese and stopped their invasion cold. Only after the U.S. and its assisting allies completely pulled out of the country did the South Vietnamese government fall. That means your so-called non-willing, sucked-sh*t-at-shooting, stoned-out-of-their-mind soldiers were better than you give them credit for or the North Vietnamese wasn't quite the "battle-hardened" troops when dealing with the more traditional conventional war. In either case, read your freakin' history.

    It was the U.S. political structure that failed the American people and the military. Combat capability was never part of the picture. You try fighting a boxing match with one hand tied behind your back - I guarantee you won't get far. Finally, stop insulting the troops who were sent there to do a job that most people didn't want to do, who got wounded, crippled, and killed, who came home to a population that didn't want them back. The only reason you have the luxury of insulting them now is because they went out to die back then.
     
  6. Snakeye

    Snakeye Mk82HD

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    I read quite a lot about Vietnam, some of the books are said to be among the best ever written about that topic, and they hardly reflect the stoned-not-willing-to-fight-soldier-image some of you have.
    In fact there were some US elite units in Nam, the 1. Cav and the Green Berets and the SEALs and the Big Red One. All of these were 'good' soldiers and gave the VC and NVA some heavy causulties.
    The SOG achieved a Kill ratio better than any US unit since the indipendence war!
    In fact the VC were hardly battle hardened troops, though some regiments were considered elite units, most of them were just bad equipped local paisans(M1 carbines, french rifles or such were the main equipment of the VC - AKs and other heavy weapons were only with the NVA and some VC elite untis..)

    The reason why the US lost the war? They weren't allowed to cross the border to cambodia(most of the time. Still SOG units often operated in Cambodia..)
    In fact the politicians wanted a peace treaty and only allowed to attack targets they thought important, so many attack aitcraft and pilots were wasted against worthless targets while attacking the real important ones were off-limits.

    I guess the history allows many opinions about why the US lost, and of course there were US soldiers unwilling to fight, some were taking drugs, but I don't think that allows anyone to state, that every US soldier was a pot-smoking coward, and every VC a elite troop.

    Finally, to all US citizens:
    Respect the work of your soldiers in any war or conflict, be it Vietnam, Somalia, Korea or whatever. Some of them died far away from home because the politicians you elected sent them there. Blameing all of them because they didn't win or for war crimes some did, is about the worst disrespect I can imagine.

    Snakeye :D

    anything you do can get you killed, including doing nothing
     
  7. Hodag

    Hodag High on Jimson Weed and Lysol...

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    Thanks Snake...

    Adam C.
    --A good AMR can be
    your best friend...--
     
  8. Nad.Man

    Nad.Man New Member

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    One reason for sure...

    Would definately have to be that satisfying gas-powered "Clink-Kla-Clink" of the bolt cycling and the round being sent on it's way.

    Even if there are more suitable,reliable, accurate etc. rifles out there, this gun has been around for ages...plus it's really fun to fire off in the game :)
     
  9. BB_Izgard

    BB_Izgard I need to improve my aim.

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    American superiority.

    What always gets on my nerve, is that you americans, despite your lack of succesful military campaigns, still go around acting all high and mighty. Yes, you lost the Vietnam war! So why is that so hard to admit? "Well, if it hadn't been for those pansy-ass politicians or the freakin' hippies, we would have won!", is that it? You know why the russians abandoned Afghanistan? They were, much like the americans, trying to win a war against a people who had never been beaten on their own ground. Of course it gets political. You can only send so many young men to die before someone says stop.

    So, accept the outcome of the Vietnam war instead of making lame excuses!

    Two roads diverged in a wood and I, I decided to turn around, because let's face it, there are muggers and rapists and all kinds of crazy psychos out there...
     
  10. Lord_Bunker

    Lord_Bunker New Member

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    your just jealous that our country has the nuclear capability to glass over the surface of yours.

    [​IMG]
    it's only temporary till i get my own ghillie finished.
     
  11. Lord_Bunker

    Lord_Bunker New Member

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    seariously though what killed us was the m16. not ecause it sucked but because of the increased rate of fire. they started relying more on spray and pray then actually aiming. in many cases they didn't even teach soldiers the fundamentals of accurate shooting. the just kinda said here's your rifle, point it that way and pull this. they evepended over 10,000 rounds for every person they actually managed to kill. snipers on the other hand only used 1.5. most of the ammunition was used to get the other side to keep their head down.

    Anyone ever hear of the Gomerpile demonstration?

    [​IMG]
    it's only temporary till i get my own ghillie finished.
     
  12. Zundfolge

    Zundfolge New Member

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    <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> you know as well as I do that almost everyone in Vietnam was either against fighting and just let themselves get shot, sucked sh*t at using a gun, or was stoned out of their mind. [/quote]

    It seems that everything AOD knows about the world he learned by watching movies. Damn Hollywood has you well brainwashed!

    Over half the US troops in VietNam were VOLUNTEERS, not a bunch of conscripted hippies who just let themselves get shot :rolleyes: but honest to God trained soldiers. There where problems with the M16 early on, but there's problems with any new weapon system (the biggest problem with the M16 was it's inablity to take lots of dirt, and the perifin wax soaked pre-loaded magazines that gummed up the recievers)

    Another thing that annoys the piss out of me is Europeans who come out of the woodwork to admonish Americans for defending themselves and their history. Certainly we lost the war in VietNam, but it wasn't for a lack of skilled soldiers or firepower, it was politics (all wars are political).

    The bigotry I see from so many Europeans is astounding, especialy since they all claim to be so enlightened.

    Not all Americans are idiots, and not all Europeans are intelligent. (I'd put the ratios about the same on both sides of the pond)

    [​IMG]
     
  13. BB_Izgard

    BB_Izgard I need to improve my aim.

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    Idiots.

    I never said that all americans are idiots. On the contrary, I think americans are quite likeable. The few soldiers I met in Bosnia were both professional and well trained. I'm working as a sales assistant, and the most appreciated customers are americans!

    What I did say was that you need to accept the outcome of that war. Believe me, we got our asses kicked several hundred years ago, when we had put most of europe under our boot.

    I think it can sometimes be a problem being the best equipped fighting force on the planet, since it's easy to rely too much on the hardware.

    PS. Why would you want to nuke us, Lord Bunker, since you guys can't even make cell-phones? Not mentioning Volvo! :D

    Two roads diverged in a wood and I, I decided to turn around, because let's face it, there are muggers and rapists and all kinds of crazy psychos out there...
     
  14. Zundfolge

    Zundfolge New Member

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    I can think of at aleast 1 real good reason NOT to nuke Sweden.


    TOBLERONE!


    (although Volvos aren't too bad either, well there's also the banks too. I mean what would organized crime do without anonomous banking :) )

    [​IMG]
     
  15. Zundfolge

    Zundfolge New Member

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    Wait a minute... Toblerone is Swiss So are the banks.

    oh well I guess you're on your own :)ï¬￾
     
  16. BB_Izgard

    BB_Izgard I need to improve my aim.

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    Not the first

    time someone mistakes Sweden for Switzerland, but I'll live! ;) Still, you couldn't nuke Switzerland even if you wanted to. Have you seen the size of that country? :D

    Two roads diverged in a wood and I, I decided to turn around, because let's face it, there are muggers and rapists and all kinds of crazy psychos out there...
     
  17. Zundfolge

    Zundfolge New Member

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    wait...wait...now I remember what we get from Sweden; PORN! ;)


    A

    [​IMG]
     
  18. Angel Of Death

    Angel Of Death New Member

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    You say that the soldiers in Vietnam were VOLUNTEERS? My dad was FORCED to go into Vietnam. It wasn't anyones choice, that's why they had two drafts moron. You think that when they have a draft they just call people's names and say "Hey, wanna go fight for us and more than likely get killed?", "No that's alright...", "OK, nevermind." Why do you think a lot of people were trying to hideout during vietnam? Because the army would come look for em and send em to Vietnam if they were registered. You should be shot for saying that the people in Vietnam were VOLUNTEERS. Seriously dude, way f*ckin off.

    The gates of Hell are awaiting as you see.. There's no price to pay just follow me.. I can take your lost souls from the grave.. Jesus knows your soul cannot be saved.
     
  19. Zundfolge

    Zundfolge New Member

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    According to the United States Army, about half of the soldiers that served in VietNam were people that either had already joined the military before the war, or as soon as the war broke out they VOLUNTEERED. Maybe your dad was drafted, maybe he didn't want to fight but was afraid to burn his draft card and run away to Canada (or maybe he just realized it was his duty to report like an adult).

    My dad was already in the service when things broke out in VietNam, he was one of those volunteers I spoke about.

    And this may supprise you but during the war MOST of the youth in the US where NOT hippies getting high and burning draft cards, they where just people who went about their daily lives like anyone else. And MOST of the boys drafted during the war did just what your father did and showed up as ordered.

    Another supprising thing is that MOST of the men who served in VietNam came back alive and in one piece.

    Hollywood would have you believe that american boys where moving to Canada in droves and that most of the soldiers that went to war died and if you weren't in the war you where a campus radical out protesting in the streets. Gimme a break, pull your head out of the movie studios' collective ass and learn some real history. The data is there, just get off your ass and go down to the library and read the newspapers from during the war. Maybe talk to a few vets (I'm sure you dad would have something interesting to say about the whole thing, since he was actualy THERE) pick up a *gasp* history book.

    no wonder the world is in the condition it is, we are quickly becoming a people without a real history, nothing left but revisionist fiction.

    It makes for good movies but as has often been pointed out in this forum; Movies ain't real!

    [​IMG]
     
  20. Cuchullain

    Cuchullain New Member

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    Back to the topic....

    The M16 is used because it's the weapon of the US military. Despite its problems it's plentiful - as is the ammo.
    The DE was thrown in because the playing community voted it in. It's a novelty gun more than anything. Shooting a .50 cal hand gun round is just cool. Sure there are better guns out there, but this gun in the right hands means you're just as dead.
    Come on people...we're going to use every weapon at our disposal to kill the other team...this one just make a more innacurate mess!

    hehe - just my .02

    I BELIEVE IN GREATER ACCURACY THROUGH VOLUME!!



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