What kind & speed of DSL is best for Inf?

[TheViper]

I hope someone can give me some guidance regarding DSL type and speed. I'm having DSL service started and want to get the best ping I can. This conversation is taken from the "General" section under "Poll:What Kind of Connection do u have?" Can those who are experts or semi-experts in this area help me out? I don't have much time before I have to make a final decision! Thanks!

Vipe
-------------

TheViper

ISDN
Dual-line isdn here. However, changing to 384/384K sdsl within a few weeks. Hope it is as speedy as advertised.

Question for those who know these things: Is there any advantage to the sychronized dsl with a midrange up/down speed over the adsl with a large uplink/downlink difference?. In other words, which is a better choice, 768/128k adsl, or 384/384k sdsl? Is the 128k side a bottleneck that partially negates the 768 side in applications that depend on quick uplink AND downlink speeds (such as fps gaming)? Or would the 768/128k adsl have been a better choice for me than the 384/384k sdsl?
(note: 768/768k sdsl is offered by the ISP, but the expense for that got out of range


The_Countess

more uplink bandwith dusnt get you a lower ping
and 128k is more then enough to play any FPS
384k is not a improvent over 128k while playing
unless your running a server
with my 128k i can host 1 person
with 384k you can get 2 maybe 3
so not a great improvement there either

for just internet it CAN be a improvement but it totaly depends on what you want to do
if i where you i'd go the for adsl 768/128k as just about everybody downloads a lot more then they upload
there are ofcourse exeptions

TheViper

I don't know, Countess...right now, I have a dual line isdn connection that's 128k (I get about 112 - 115 actual). With this, my ping is usually around 200 - 300 (150 at very best) on servers where many peeps are getting less than 100 at the same time. If my 128k connection is "more than enough to play any fps," then how are those other guys getting the 50 - 90 pings? Proximity to the server? My 384/384 is in the pipeline now, so I guess I'm going to find out firsthand if 384 gets a better ping than 128... .


The_Countess

the point i was trying to get accross theviper is that upload speed wont help your ping

i have 128 upload and just about allways have the lowest ping on our inforcers server
i see a sub40 sometimes
its you isdn and provider thats creating your "high" ping
switching to adsl/sdsl SHOULD reduce your ping
that is unless your adsl isp is crap ofcourse

so yes switching from 128k idsn to 384k dsl will lower ping
but so would switching from 128k idsn to 128k dsl
by the same amount

and a dual or single isdn dusnt get you a lower ping either just gives you a higher phonebill

rimmerlister : when i ran 1 on UT it was fine
when i ran 2 or 3 it crapped out
i was playing on it @ the time and my framerate was still high and it ran smothly so my CPU wasnt the problem


TheViper

Countess you said, "the point i was trying to get across theviper is that upload speed wont help your ping"

What about download speed, will it help the ping? In other words, would you expect significantly better pings if you went from 128/128 (or even 384/384) sdsl to 768/128 adsl?

BTW, anyone else is welcome and encouraged to join in this discussion. Fish-or-cut bait time is rapidly approaching for me to designate dsl type and speed (the line was installed a few days ago, now awaiting final hookup by the ISP).

 

[TheViper]

Anyone? Help! Installation is in two days! Should I stay with the 384/384 Sdsl I have ordered, or change it to something like 768/128 Adsl, and why?

Should the best possible ping even BE the object? Or is the size of the down-bandwidth more important? Would 768down/128up adsl trump 384/384 because the guy with 768 down would usually see the guy with the 384/384 sdsl first?

 

[shiftless]

Stick with 386 SDSL. SDSL bandwith is usually guaranteed, which means you will always get 386 kbs download speed, no more and no less.

ADSL is usually sold with a higher possible top download speed (786 or 1.4 MB) then SDSL, but if you look at the fine print this impressive number is the MAXIMUM download speed. In fact at any given moment your ADSL speed would be somewhere between 128 (the usual guaranteed ADSL minimum) and 768 kbs, and we all know how much fun it is to play when your ping is fluctuating, don't we?

I have 768 kbs SDSL now (as a consultant I can write it off, hehe), but I used to have 386 kbs and it also was great for gaming. Enjoy!

- shiftless

 

[TheViper]

Thanks for the feedback. Another nice thing about this connection is that this ISP's accounts in this area are mostly business accounts, so at the times I'm on (away from business hours) the "pipe" to the internet will be very clean.

I think I'm going to like this a lot. Installation got delayed for a week though, darn it!

 

[GNAT]

I like the 1.5mb connection I have. If I am downloading anything at all from anywhere with substantial bandwidth I get every bit over 1.mb downstream. Which makes a big difference when your downloading something big! I know what it is like to be capped and when you have something large and your stuck at 384kb it really starts sucking fast.

 

[Keganator]

As long as you get a good service, you'll get good play. Now that I'm dialing up to my school, I get bad ping (like 300-400), but it's consistant, depending on the # of people. And consistancy is the name of the game!

 

[megatron]

Although I haven't reviewed all that has already been said in the thread I think this link may be of interest. Talks about how cable is effected by the number of users online whereas ISDN or copper connection, at high frequencies (compared to voice), is not effected by the number of users.

 

[TheViper]

No link posted.
Anyway, here's what happened. I got my 384/384 sdsl. I like the increased bandwidth, but my pings actually increased in comparison to the dual line isdn I had. Used to get 120 - 130 on a good server at a good non-congested time. Now the best I get is 150 - 200. The ISP tells me there are some changes coming that should improve that. Sigh... . I thought I was going to get to see how it feels to play a sub-100 ping on a public server, but no.

 

[MadWoffen]

Did you "informed" the INF game you're not anymore on ISDN but DSL ?
I have adsl but I didn't post anything because I don't think I can be helpfull from Belgium.
I have 1.2 Mb dl and 128 kb ul and a ping of 130-150 when I play in the AFA2 server. In euro servers, I have a ping between 70 and 150.

 

[[L]the_Countess]

Originally posted by TheViper
Sigh... . I thought I was going to get to see how it feels to play a sub-100 ping on a public server, but no.

sub 100 or 130-150 dusnt matter that much
atleast i dont really notise when weather im on a sub100 or 150 server
over 200 and you notis a bit and over 250 and i'll need a bit of time to ajust

also with sub100
make sure you stop relaying on lag to save your ass as you come around the corner
thats the mistake i make when i go from playing on a 250 server to a sub100
makes for much ouchy ouchy

 

[megatron]

Sorry this is the link:
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/getisdn/
It says the webpage has been retired but just follow the two links.

 

[DaddyBone]

My .02 - What I've found is that once you reach a certain ping, its more about fps than anything else - living about a mile from the SOBServers, I ping at about 50-100 - however, I reinstalled my OS and fergot to change UT from 56kModem to DSL again - my gawd - a 50 ping and 25fps SUCKS - bumping it up to DSL gave me back my 90fps, and it's running droolingly well.

Here's a tip from the ServerAdmin point of view - whatever server you love to play on, join at first with your connection set as high as possible - then pull down a > prompt and type 'Stat Net' to see what your connection speed is. The bottom number is what you've hardwired your netspeed to (LAN is 20000), the number right above that is what you're actually pushing/pulling. Now - note the highest connection you can get (generally, your upstream is like 4 times higher than downstream) - say you see your netspeed never goes above 7000 - that's probably the cap the server has on it, then, so go into your user ini file (there's a command line way to do it, but I've forgotten) and set your client netspeed to 7000. From then on, you're optimized for that server! You'll get the best fps/ping you can.

Ok - note tho - if the server caps at 5000, and you stay set at LAN speed, 20000, your client will request more than the server can send it, resulting in 'jerkiness' of motion due to missing info in frames! You'll get 120fps, but the server can only send info to fill 80 of those frames, lol, resulting in packetloss.

Another tip - building on my last statement - if you're seeing constant packetloss on a server, you can lower your netspeed to help - if you're missing info from the server, telling the server to send you less than you are capable of will often help out a lot (of course, I'm talking about small amounts of packetloss, here! If you have up to 10%, it may fix the problem - if you have more than that, you can lower the %, but not clear it).

Hope this helps!

BTW, anyone know the commandline way to change netspeed? It helps a lot to change it on the fly - I think its something like 'set netspeed' ?

 

[GNAT]

netspeed xxxx

 

[[L]the_Countess]

Originally posted by DaddyBone
Ok - note tho - if the server caps at 5000, and you stay set at LAN speed, 20000, your client will request more than the server can send it, resulting in 'jerkiness' of motion due to missing info in frames! You'll get 120fps, but the server can only send info to fill 80 of those frames, lol, resulting in packetloss.

wont the client automaticly addapt to the lower netspeed of the server?
when and the server is caped @ 5000 and speed is set to cable (10.000) and i hit f6 it will say netspeed 5000
been a long time since i saw a server capt @ 5000 so i could remeber it wrong thou

but if i do remember it wrong why on earth dusnt the client adapt?
cant be that hard to code and would save A LOT of trouble

 

[DaddyBone]

Well:

1) A server NOT capped at around 5000 is not a good idea - the more info it CAN send, the more it will - this means servers without a cap around there are sending and receiving up to 20K/s for EACH user... and that the CPU and memory use will be so high that the play can suffer by maxing them out. Limiting the netspeed is a great way to make sure that the game plays well for everyone, of all speeds.

2) Nope - the client netspeed is whatever YOU choose to set it to - I mean, think of it this way - If a modem user, who can send about 2.5K/s MAX joins a server that's capped at 10K/s, they're gonna have horrible packetloss - and if you do it the other way 'round, you can't adjust your speed accordingly, as I said above - I mean, I can choose 'Cable/DSL' in the game, but that's like a client speed of 5500 - how the heck is the server supposed to know that I can handle its maxrate of 10000? And do I really want to not be able to adjust my speed by myself? Nawp!

 

[DaddyBone]

Well:

1) A server NOT capped at around 5000 is not a good idea - the more info it CAN send, the more it will - this means servers without a cap around there are sending and receiving up to 20K/s for EACH user... and that the CPU and memory use will be so high that the play can suffer by maxing them out. Limiting the netspeed is a great way to make sure that the game plays well for everyone, of all speeds.

2) Nope - the client netspeed is whatever YOU choose to set it to - I mean, think of it this way - If a modem user, who can send about 2.5K/s MAX joins a server that's capped at 10K/s, they're gonna have horrible packetloss - and if you do it the other way 'round, you can't adjust your speed accordingly, as I said above - I mean, I can choose 'Cable/DSL' in the game, but that's like a client speed of 5500 - how the heck is the server supposed to know that I can handle its maxrate of 10000? And do I really want to not be able to adjust my speed by myself? Nawp!

3) If you constantly set your speed to LAN and join Inet servers with a default max of 10000, you're probably losing out on performance - all the server cap does is limit the amount it'll send, not how much you request - and if you constantly request more than it can send, you'll get missing bits - resulting in packetloss at the worst, or simply some jerkiness in the best case due to missing info... Because a server is only sending you global events while the client does up its own world, what you end up with is beautiful fps for the environment but nasty effects for the global events sent to you. (Explosions, tracers, etc, that everyone in the game sees - not decals, tho, in INF that's client-side) Worst, worst case scenario here is that everything is ok for you but that you're asking the server to give you all it can - thereby contributing to higher resources being used than they should and ending in the possibility of creating lag for others when the server maxes out (hehe, its not all you, of course - just if many people are doing it)

All told - there's a median level of server usage - a balance between playability and resource use - so a server admin SHOULD set the client netspeed to around 5000 to 7000. Believe me, I've played with this a LOT - and you don't notice much of a difference at all with a server set to 6000 vs 10000 - after all, it IS still over the Internet, and other things always have their own affects.

 

[TheViper]

Daddybone, you said, "a 50 ping and 25fps SUCKS"
Try a 250 ping and 20 fps, LOL! But my 20 fps days are nearly over. Should have my new box within two weeks... .

You also said, "Here's a tip from the ServerAdmin point of view - whatever server you love to play on, join at first with your connection set as high as possible -"

Do you mean the Net button on the menu where you select LAN, Cable/DSL, etc.? Or do you mean "netspeed"? And what's the difference?

Thanks for the monograph on optimizing for a server; when I get my new box I'll try and understand what you said and put it to use.

 

[MadWoffen]

AFAIK, it is basically the same. Let's say Netspeed command is the manual one.

Hopes that will help the ol'man...

 

[TheViper]

Thanks MadWoffen, y'young whippersnapper.

 

[DaddyBone]

Hehe, all the dropdown box does is set the netspeed entry in your ini with presets - I think: modem = 2600 Cable/DSL = 5500 LAN = 20000.


And you're welcome, Vipe! Most of that is covered in the Online Server Manual, btw...