VERY off topic

[Cunubelin]

This post is about suicide.
I am going to pose a couple of questions and, perhaps, with the insight of this community I might find an answer of sorts.... Maybe.
The reason for this post is that a friend of mine at work killed himself this past weekend.
I can't sort out my feelings about this tragedy...
In a way I can, I feel ANGRY and very pissed off because he took the chicken way out.
There was NO warning, NO signs of depression, ZERO hints!
Even his girlfriend never suspected anything.
This could be described as a classic case of suicide; He was the last person you would expect to do it!
Ok, the questions then...

Is suicide an acceptable way out?
If so, under what conditions?

...why is it that I only feel cold inside... ?

...shit...
...fuck...

C.

p.s
So long sucker..

 

[Bad.Mojo]

Suicide is an acceptable way out, sure.

If you're tired of your life, then you have every right to end it. Lets face it, you had no control over being born, you had no control over the hands you were dealt in life. i don't think of suicides as cowards -- the will and desire to commit suicide is intensely strong, as its a single thought that overrides every single instinct we have. Its a desire to end everything we are, sever all ties with everybody we love and hold dear, and terminate our own existence, something the very basest of our own brain tells us not to ever, ever do.

There is no "right" and "wrong" time for suicide. its whenever you decide you're ready. We euthanise animals in pain, and to some extent, people too. Its humane -- if you know you're going to die from a terminal illness, you should have the right to die. By your own or somebody else's hand. And suicidal tendencies tend to be fairly terminal, when you think about it.

Ultimately, it comes down to personal ethics. Personally, I don't believe in suicide. My religion is against it. But MY religion should not run other people's lives. In many feudal societies, suicide was considered a dignified way to die, a way to save face and show strength. If people decide they want to die, they have that right. We're given so little control in our own lives. We're born without choice, and we live our lives as dictated by the actions of the others. We feel ill and well at the whim of some invisible force, and now laws tell us that we have to, we MUST live out our natural lives. I'd like to think that in this fucked up world, i'd have a little control over something in my life. and hopefully that control would be the ultimate control in and of itself, the control to end my own life -- to take myself to the final destination when I choose I wish to go.

Just my thoughts.

<img src="http://badmojojacket.homestead.com/files/bmj.gif" alt="Bad.Mojo: Born to Kill">

 

[Goat Fucker]

I know how u feel.
A freind of mine blew his head off with a gun i sold him, this is 4 years ago.
And all i can say is, it´ll never feel good, but u laern to deall with it.
First u feel sad confused and then angry, then comes depresion.

ALL my fucking life, i´we thought abaut ending it all, i´we been stabed, raped, shot, and tortured.
All within the age of 15.
I´we felt the evil of this fucked world.

But when my freind gib´d himself, i disided newer to put my freinds frew all this, and started making a life for myself.

Conclusion...nomatter how shit lifes seems, it can allways go both ways. If u dont ambutate the part of youre life that´s fucked...it´ll kill u.
But if u act, u can turn it around.

Sounds easy....but hell, we all know that it aint, not giving up is the key !!!


There are only 2 kind of people in this world, those that wish to kill themselves, and those that wish to kill someone else !

 

[I_ABuGa]

my condolences

suicide? permanent solution to a temporary problem... this may be taken one way or another i guess. I believe that we are all entitled to life and taking away from ourselves is a great sorrow and loss and waste. Know that your life, no matter how lousy it may seem, is connected to the lives of others. Your perceptions and experiences effect the things and people around you as they effect you. When you end your life, you end a node, a link in the chain of life and bring pain to others who knew you and shared with you. This is a lot more poignant cause the suicidal person decideds to end his own life, its his decision. Ultimately his decision.

Cunubelin? sorry for your loss, I have also lost a friend to suicide. The worst part of it was I DID NOT KNOW! made me feel shitty cause I kept thinking that maybe I could have stopped her or done something if only I knew. You'd probably forget most of the loss in a while unless he/she was close to you. I've reconciled with myself, though the loss is still felt sometimes, 6 years since.

Is suicide an acceptable way out?
My opinion is NO

If so, under what conditions?
I would not even think of imposing my own beliefs on another, everyone is entitled to think his/her own way. I do believe in mercy killing/euthanasia to a limited degree

-------------
Shit Happens... and with great regularity too. We just have to deal with it one turd at a time.

 

[CBuzz]

I'm very sorry for your loss Cunubelin.

My wife went through a period in college where she was suicidal. She got help through medication and counseling, and I thank God every day that she crawled out of that and found happiness, and that she had the courage to seek help. I don't feel it's an acceptible solution.

Don't feel guilty that you just feel cold or even angry -it's perfectly natural.
I'm sure that if you talk to your mutual friends about this you'll probably find that they're all feeling similar things. Again, I'm so sorry for your loss. /infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

 

[Snakeye]

maybe this is totally out of place, but it's a line I really like:
'Suicide is your way to tell god: you can't fire me, I quit'
For being true I do not even think this line is a good joke, for me it's just plain truth.

Whether or not sucide is a good way out, or if anybody sould commit suicide, I'd back up Bad.Mojo:
We all have to decide this ourselves. Someone who want's to die, will find a way.

I myself had times, when I thought about suicide, but now I rather think that I'd give the world some payback, before going into the black.
(No, I won't kill anyone - except that guy that posted 2.8 was out, perhaps..)
If you ask me, before going berserk and shooting some others, rather shoot yourself - you may decide about your life, not about theirs.

Snakeye
(who didn't forget his smilie..

anything you do can get you killed, including doing nothing

 

[Zundfolge]

Suicide is probably one of the most evil and selfish things you can do. /infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif

Just look at the amount of pain your friend's suicide has caused you, now think about what his girlfriend is going through... forget that, think about what his MOTHER is going through!
To, on purpose and with malice of forethought, inflict such emotional agony on your loved-ones is a crime against humanity.

Sure, you have dominion over your own body and I guess on some level you have the "right" to sucide, but the exercise of this "right" is not exceptable.

There are exceptions to this, I don't think throwing yourself on a grenade is the same thing. That would be an act of self sacrifice, not self indulgence.

I too have lost a friend to suicide, and I truly do sympothize with you, and hope the bluntness of my post hasn't added to your pain.

"People hate me because I am a multifaceted, talented, wealthy, internationally famous genius. "
Jerry Lewis

 

[DeadeyeDan[ToA]]

If I was somebody's parent, and that somebody was in enough pain or anguish to be able to fight off the voice in your heads that says "DONT DIE", and kill themselves, then I wouldn't be horribly upset... if they were that f*cking miserable, than why would I be upset about him ending that misery?

I might worry about the kind of parent I had been, but I should have been just as worried before he committed suicide, if his life was that bad.

_______________________
Shot four puppet governors in a line,
Shook all tha world bankers, who think they can rhyme,
Shot the landlords, who knew it was mine,
Yes, its a war from the depth of time!

 

[Bad.Mojo]

I was always brought up being taught that suicide was a sin, and that it was wrong, and that was all fine and dandy to govern myself. I've been in that position, too. I think everybody has at some time wanted to or even tried to kill themselves. I still have scars on my wrists.

What made me decide against it was this: I have a whole eternity to be dead, but a precious few moments to live. What if it does get better? Eventually, my suffering will end, and that is absolute. But what if by dying I pass up some experiences, some feelings, that i'll never get to have. That made me think twice.

At the same time, people do have the right to terminate their own existence. Its their existence, for God's sake. Not yours. Nobody has any right to call these people selfish. Its YOU that's selfish for making them suffer more just so you won't have to tell yourself at night, when you wake up in a cold sweat "It was his choice, there was nothing I could have done to stop it, there were no signs, he seemed perfectly happy and normal". I mean, that is what you tell yourselves when you wake up, right? I too knew a guy that commit suicide. Not once did i blame myself or feel bad. *HE* popped the pills into his mouth, not me. *HE* chose that now was an appropriate time for him to die, not me. Yeah, I was upset, because he was a funny guy, real giving and jovial and upbeat, and I'd never get quite the same personality from him as I would from anybody else. But I didn't lose any sleep over it. Children die every day because the third world country they live in can't keep up with the Industrialized first world nations that we live in. Now *THAT*, my friends, is a real fucking tragedy. I suggest you get your priorities straight. People will never stop commiting suicide, so pissing and moaning and thinking you can bring them back through whatever it is you whisper to yourselves at night won't solve anything. It'll just distract you from helping people that could be helped. Stop wallowing in your own self-pity. People don't commit suicide for shits and giggles, they do it to end whatever inner pain is consuming them like a cancer on the soul. They're slowly losing their humanity and instead of letting that happen, they choose to end their life. Not yours, not mine, not anybody else's but their own.

<img src="http://badmojojacket.homestead.com/files/bmj.gif" alt="Bad.Mojo: Born to Kill">

 

[Cunubelin]

Thank you for your replies

Thank you every one who has posted so far and those who still may post in this thread.

A little more "background".
The company I work for is pretty small less than 20 people onboard. So we're a pretty tightly knit little gang, or at least we THOUGHT we were...

Like I said in my original post, there was no warning but hindsight and analysis of the last few days before his suicide has begun to tell differently.
Small details that seemed odd and not "like" him yet nothing that would really indicate a problem.
He seemed happier during the last week but not alarmingly so.
We all have our ups and downs in life and sometimes we happen to BE happier for a while so...
Here comes a disaggrement;
I disaggree with Bad.Mojo.
Why?
He hurt a lot of people with his stunt. There was no explanation as to why he hung himself.
If you're going to kill yourself, at least have the common, fucking, sense to let your loved ones know why. It will ease the process of getting back to a "normal" life.
True, in the great scheme of things, this is not even a pimple on the arse!
but for US living here, with this loss kicking us in the face, it MATTERS! Ok?
Selfpity? No, not really as I'm not sorry for myself. I'm sorry for those that hurt, unnecessarily IMO, and for those whose life will become hell on earth for a while, perhaps even forever.
Then again, I'm not sure you aimed that remark about selfpity at me so...
The remark about the 3:d world... Those are horrors that should touch us all and the situation is worth a hell of a lot more than mere thought and a few tears for the poor kids you see on the news. But even there, suicide hurts family and friends and frankly, this whole thread is about suicide.
Here comes the part where I contradict myself;
Through all this I also believe in the right to take your own life.
Just leave something, ANYTHING behind that will tell your family and friends WHY.
NOT knowing is great food for selfreproach.

As an end to this post I want to thank you all again for your kind words and your opinions.

Peace
C.

 

[Goat Fucker]

I agree

I agree. If i had known why my freinds killed themselfes, i´d have a "tool" to work it out in my head. Its the least u can do, if u deside to go thruw with it!
And the way one thooses to "go" matters too.
When u implicate others, youre doing them a great injustes, by removing THEIR right to choose.
Well forxample, if u throw youreself in front of a train, the driver will feel that he has killed u, that (even thoug he couldent have) should have stopped. And so on.

Go in anger, the darkness is youre freind

 

[CBuzz]

I personally feel that we are responsible not only for our own life, but also for our life with respect to those who love us. I owe it to my parents to return the favor of giving me life with returning their love as long as my life exists naturally. Taking my life might end my suffering, but it would only cause the people who love me to suffer for the rest of their lives. Being loved, hell just being raised from a baby carries a responsibility to those who have cared for and loved me. Suicide is the ultimate in selfishness.

 

[DeadeyeDan[ToA]]

I think the ultimate in selfishness would be a loved one of somebody who took their own life to be upset about it.

It's like saying "Well sonny, yes your life is f*cked, and your wife is going to leave you when she finds out you got fired *and* you caught the HIV virus from a prostitute you got drunk and had sex with after your buddy's bachelor party... and yes you will get convicted of statutory rape when that apparently only 17 year old skizophrenic prostitute contacts the authorities because you didn't call her like you never said you would... but you should just ride out the prison sentance, then finish living your horrible life with a crappy new job, no woman, and a criminal record, because I really really like it when you call us every Sunday."

_______________________
Shot four puppet governors in a line,
Shook all tha world bankers, who think they can rhyme,
Shot the landlords, who knew it was mine,
Yes, its a war from the depth of time!

 

[Bad.Mojo]

Yeah, not leaving a suicide note is a little selfish. It leaves questions unanswered. Frankly, the suicide note is somebody's way of saying "i'm sorry, and this isn't anybody's fault, but my life is awful, and I simply want to end it. i'll love you always."

That much I'll give you.

<img src="http://badmojojacket.homestead.com/files/bmj.gif" alt="Bad.Mojo: Born to Kill">

 

[Zundfolge]

If nothing else not leaving a suicide note is just doing things half-assed.

If you're trying to make some sort of statement by offing yourself then you can't be very effective if you don't leave a note.

Plus there's an off chance that someone could be blamed for your murder.

"People hate me because I am a multifaceted, talented, wealthy, internationally famous genius. "
Jerry Lewis