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UT3.5 or UT4?

Discussion in 'Unreal Tournament 3' started by Wunderbar_007, Mar 28, 2008.

  1. JohnDoe641

    JohnDoe641 Killer Fools Pro Staff Member

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    Epic didn't make Unreal2. :/
     
  2. Vitamin-Carrot

    Vitamin-Carrot If

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    Well said .... didnt some of the boys over at free monkey (i think thats the name) work on it or atleast u2xmp?
     
  3. Crotale

    Crotale _________________________ _______________

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    Free Monkey Interactive created the xMP mod for UT2004. Legend created U2XMP.
     
  4. elmuerte

    elmuerte Master of Science

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  5. pinnacle

    pinnacle New Member

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    I think the point Draco was trying to make is that the game has a lot of little things wrong with it. The shield gun in UT2k4 was inaccurate because it only checked for a hit 6 times a second or something... that's not the fault of the netcode, rather there is a variable in the shield gun class that can be changed to something like 20 to make it reasonably accurate. That's all it takes. The netcode in UT3 is a lot choppier and more inaccurate than every past UT game... only the original Unreal netcode was worse at release, but that was fixed over time. UT3's netcode hasn't had any improvements to make it smoother or more accurate. The other day after FragBU I played Q3 CPMA with Zer0 and it was like night and day... the game felt like an extension of my brain. Every interaction was smooth, crisp, and accurate. I was nailing flick shots, air rockets, you name it - it gave me a sudden rush of "look ma, games are fun again". Not to mention that a lot of people have noticed UT3's inconsistent mouse sensitivity that varies as you go. Console players probably won't notice nor care, but assuming that diehard PC fans of the series won't notice/care is kind of presumptuous on Epic's part.

    As for all the other things you were talking about, it's not the community's responsibility to do any of that. Since when should we have to wait over 7 months to have proper custom map support on servers? Not only that, but every past UT game has shipped with extensive config settings in the menus including the ability to change crosshairs. This is not even a feature unique to UT - nearly every FPS allows easy crosshair configuration. Also saying that just because a setting is in the .INI it doesn't need to be in the menus is stupid. Nobody should have to rely on third party tools in order to enjoy the game - this applies to things like the retail maps/gametypes/mutators but also to configuration. People should be able to enjoy the game out of the box. What percentage of people who purchased UT3 would you guess are running patch 1.2? More importantly, what percentage of people who purchased UT3 still play it?

    From Wartourist's post a while back it doesn't sound like Epic plans to support demoreccing any time soon (remember - it's partially in the game but it's not officially supported right now). Wishful thinking doesn't mean it's going to happen.

    They've been hearing about all the problems with the game, but the fact is that in the GDC interview a while back Epic revealed that they were aware that the game had significant issues anyway. I'll wholeheartedly agree that a lot of the issues being discussed have already been discussed to death but I think Epic deserves some of the criticism they get since they didn't give the game the polish and attention to detail it desperately needs. In earlier interviews they were talking about how they want to dominate the multiplayer scene but I guess they just ran out of time because this game 7 months after release still has less multiplayer capability than any past UT game at release.

    Don't get me wrong, I still have fun playing the game, but refusing to admit that it has tons of problems is kind of naive. However, the problems that UT3 has are mostly small in comparison to things like gameplay and visuals. The UI, netcode, audio, multiplayer features, and even things like taunts (eff yeah?) are all things that leave a sour taste in my mouth whenever I play the game. These are things that need to be focused on in addition to the big components if Epic wants to succeed at making another UT game.
     
  6. Grobut

    Grobut Комиссар Гробут

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    Look, mods should never replace such basic features, sure you can make a mutator that gives you custom crosshairs, yes there is one, but the server has to run the thing or it wont work, how many mutators will we end up having to use in the end just to play online!? and will your favorite options be the ones that get popular and played on servers?, nor are community made UI tweaks that great an idea, they may work in their own right, but what about the modding scene as a whole? we might risk having several mods with their own UI tweaks that conflict with eachother, it is never going to be a good solution, we need a solid and official foundation to build on, we need something uniform that just plain works and everyone has, like UT's of old had, or its just going to be one big mess eventually.
     
  7. elmuerte

    elmuerte Master of Science

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    The biggest problem Epic has with UT3 are the (can't find a better name) whiners (a.k.a. severely complaining fans)
    It's something they will never be able to fix. They were there with UT2003, they were there with UT2004, and they are here with UT3.
    I'm sure they will return with UT4.

    Face it. You will never ever get a new UT, you will never ever get a new UT2004. Those games have been made. You will only see new game within the same spirit (according to the creators).
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2008
  8. Crotale

    Crotale _________________________ _______________

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    Yes, that is the UT2004 mod I was referring to. But the original U2XMP was made by Legend. Am I missing something here?
     
  9. Molgan

    Molgan T-minus whenever

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    But at least they started up the game once in a while with 2k4. ^^ Blaming the whining on the whiners is to make it a bit too simple. Could just as well say the biggest problem is the lack of people who doesn't whine.
     
  10. -AEnubis-

    -AEnubis- fps greater than star

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    Indeed. They certainly can minimize the whining by giving them as little to whine about as possible.
     
  11. Vitamin-Carrot

    Vitamin-Carrot If

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    I though that the freemonkey team had a few of those that worked on the actual u2xmp itself

    oh wells
     
  12. hyrulian

    hyrulian Rainbow Brite

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    Ah, yeah, that's right. Guess I can't blame Epic for that. :p
     
  13. Crotale

    Crotale _________________________ _______________

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    It's possible, but I have no idea. What I do know is that FMI made UTXMP a superior product to U2XMP, in my opinion. Definitely a highly talented team.
     
  14. T2A`

    T2A` I'm dead.

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    False and false.

    You cannot tweak the netcode at all. That's native code. Newnet in UT2004 didn't touch the netcode; it basically ran a hack within the GameRules linked list of classes (I think) to track and save everyone's positions for 350 ms. All of the code was in UScript and a lot of it was in the weapon code files themselves.

    The only reason the shield gun primary in UT2004 sucked was because it didn't take very many traces per second, something easily changed with a simple mod. In fact, I'm fairly certain UTComp doubled the rate at which it traced to check for hits, thus doubling its accuracy. That has nothing to do with netcode. Additionally, like other weapons, you still had to lead the shield gun properly to get a hit. You can't just point it at them and expect results. D:

    Finally, UT3's netcode is worse than UT2004 which is worse than UT2003. All the optimizations Epic's been putting into it to allow for big player counts and vehakals ultimately make it less accurate, give it a worse feeling, and make the latency 30+ ms higher than it should rightly be. In UT2003/4 projectiles sometimes felt off; now in UT3 projectiles AND hitscan feels off. Great jorb there, Epic. :rolleyes:
     
  15. Lethargy

    Lethargy Darmok and Jalad at Tanagra

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    You forgot movement, movement is off too. In 2k4 I would only warp around when I had bad packetloss... in UT3 I warp around slightly all the time.
     
  16. Draco73

    Draco73 New Member

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    two QFTW!
     
  17. Draco73

    Draco73 New Member

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    qftw again
     
  18. elmuerte

    elmuerte Master of Science

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    UT2004 only had the original UT players to please.
    UT3 had to please both the original UT as the UT2004 players.

    You can't please everybody.
     
  19. Dark Pulse

    Dark Pulse Dolla, Dolla. Holla, Holla.

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    I don't think many of us are saying there's no problems, I think many of us are saying the problems are being blown out of proportion. The UI sucks, Netcode is probably a bit loose, and so on, but none of these are really huge gamebusters, except perhaps for the netcode which might piss off the hitscan-happy players. Tweaking it for vehicles and larger player counts is probably the right thing - Epic is banking their money on that's where the players will be, and so far, it's true, seeing as I've yet to see much action in the CTF and TDM arenas, but can find a reasonably-full VCTF or WAR server most times of the day.

    Also, as I tell people constantly, this is Patch 2, folks. No UT game ever began to really feel complete till Patch 3 or 4. Even things like Demorec weren't in earlier UT games immediately (such as UT2003, and in UT2004 they didn't record vehicles initially, either, and even then were still rather broken.) Be Patient. It will get there, but all this bitching, whining, and pissing is just going to encourage them to not bother giving it a good normal patching cycle, and that means EVERYONE loses.
     
  20. Poker

    Poker Anus Retentus

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    (1) Epic spent all of 2007 promising us a finely polished game.
    (2) They sold us what at best was, and still is, a Beta.
    (3) Customers do not like being lied to, and become irate when they are.

    Trying to stop (3) without reconciling (1) and (2) is a perfect exercise in futility.
     

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