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UT2004 and bots

Discussion in 'Unreal Tournament 2003/2004' started by JimBodkins, Dec 11, 2008.

  1. JimBodkins

    JimBodkins New Member

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    I dont want to hear how lame this is please.

    I just hate the ridiculous way the bots behave at reasonable levels of difficulty in 2k4. For example the bots can 'leap' farther faster than most of the weapons. (Designed by a child IMHO). I would like to get rid of this via a mute if possible. Is there a mute which hobbles the bots? (even me)

    Adept and above, the bots make all but hitscan weapons pointless.

    Just asking.

    P.S.
    I wont ask if anyone has fixed the cheating that takes place by advanced bots - I know it is a reflection of the designers.

    I also wont bother asking about the absolutely terrible team characteristics that were given the bots by the same designers.
     
  2. furby

    furby New Member

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    Play online.
     
  3. Scuzzbuster

    Scuzzbuster It's Crunchy. It's Nice.

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    Wow. How Lame.

    Bah, just kidding.

    Bots cheat? In the original UT bots could fall any distance on any map and not take damage. Never did figure that one out. In fact, never even knew it until I specced a bot match. Granted, they didn't ALWAYS do it, but they DID do it.

    Now in all the UT games the bots got wickedly difficult at higher levels. The problem is, you can only code the bots to be so smart. Most of the 1337 humans that own you do it through accuracy, map knowledge, smart play, intelligent weapons decisions.

    Really, when you get to a certain point with AI, you can't duplicate those things, so the only way to make them harder is to increase their accuracy and make them do things humans can't generally do. This is why bot play may sharpen you a little, but ultimately if you never go online but reach a very high level against the best bot opponents, you'll still get your ass handed to you by mid-level players your first time online. I'm not sure that the bots can actually leap farther or faster, but their reaction times and accuracy with hitscan weapons at the high levels are well beyond humans.
     
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2008
  4. KaL976

    KaL976 *nubcake*

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    You can edit individual bot stats; use bot roster, select bot, edit stats iirc

    No idea how toning them down goes as [ha ha] I only use it to make them harder :D

    Xan w/all sliders maxed on Godlike makes a half decent opponent when checking out new maps offline.

    Just remember to never get within range of Alt Link or Flak primary as they are cheap as f*ck with those two [unless you are denying them those pick-ups of course]
     
  5. JimBodkins

    JimBodkins New Member

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    In the past (UT99) I normally played offline against godlikes. The problem - I think - came with later titles as Epic enhanced dodging. In 2k4 bots can dodge 20 feet in a fraction of a second. In other words they shard dodge - to coin a phrase.

    I know many people like that. I think it is lame - because - it is a get out of jail free card. Meaning, you **** up and put yourself in a tactical situation that should get you killed - you can dodge your way out of it. As an old dueler, I dont care for that. But thats just me.

    For a weapon to be credible, it should be lethal and half are not against bots above adept.

    I am certain bots could be better. Its a question of goals. UT bots do two things well (well is relative) 1) duel and 2) position for flag pickups.

    They absolutely do not escort, cutoff, screen, chase etc well. They could. It may be that Epic became more of an engine company and less of a game company. (No point tweaking bots). Hard to say.

    You want to watch cheating - spec a godlike CTF match. You can watch them tracking opponents through walls and floors. :) I dont play competatively much anymore - but I would like to play above 'skilled'. But when I do I get pissed at the idiocy of having weapons that bots can avoid with 20 foot (ankle) jumps. (No preparation to jump, just twitch in the ankles - very kiddyfied - sorry, no offense meant).

    Since dodge is something 'special' (like Mrs Cliffy's son B), I had hoped it could be nerfed via a mute. Doesnt sound as if anyone has done that. Maybe one of these days I'll take the time to become familiar with the SDK ... if I have time.

    Sorry for the ramble.

    Thanks for the replies.
     
  6. GreatEmerald

    GreatEmerald Khnumhotep

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    I play on Masterful yet the bots still lose if I play strategic large-scale maps (like Onslaught or VCTF). They tend to rip me to pieces in cramped maps though, like the most DeathMatch. And online everyone play better than me lol.
     
  7. KaL976

    KaL976 *nubcake*

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    Bump them up to adept... go on, you know you want to ;)
     
  8. GreatEmerald

    GreatEmerald Khnumhotep

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    Nah, I'm thinking of Inhumane... Or something of the likes...
     
  9. Kaleena

    Kaleena Unregistered User

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    I find godlike bots easy in team games because of their stupidity, but in 1v1 I get raped proper :eek: I'm not that good anyway, but even by knowing they run blindly for the shield/double damage etc I still can't really deal with their aimbot.
    I find the bots more fun playing in adept, even if it's too easy.
     
  10. GreatEmerald

    GreatEmerald Khnumhotep

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    A good resume. They win in DM where they don't need tactics, and fail everywhere else. Basically that's why it's so hard to win the ladder...
     
  11. KaL976

    KaL976 *nubcake*

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    I'm the other way. The DM ladder is a cakewalk but I can't for the life of me beat AS-Mothership on Godlike.
     
  12. Kaleena

    Kaleena Unregistered User

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    That's funny, I just did AS-Mothership in godlike the other day, and won without much trouble, which surprised me tbh. But I can't even win the first level of the DM ladder in godlike. (except with the integrated aimbot ofc)
     
  13. GreatEmerald

    GreatEmerald Khnumhotep

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    Yea, AS-Mothership is hard, but that has nothing to do with teamwork. They just have an unholy amount of turrets, and they seem to avoid or kill them faster...
     
  14. Ben1220

    Ben1220 New Member

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    exactly, I can wiked sick a godlike bot easy, and thats not a big deal, most good players can do it, the bots do not compensate for your strengths and how you have played previously, if something works on them once it will again, and again... They are simply stupid, sure they are insane with the flak and the link, but if you know what you are doing they are easy. Online players on the other hand...
     
  15. Blade_hunter

    Blade_hunter Unreal tournament mod dude

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    In the first UT the bot customization is smart, I can play on medium difficulty and good challengeable bots (they do sometimes the shock combos and have more "brain")
    the bots are always more difficult to beat at close quarters because they use a sort of circle to simulate the accuracy error, with humans you have approximatively the sames chances at close and long range, with the bots it's different you have more chances in long range than short.
     
  16. gades

    gades The Grudge Master!

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    JimBodkins, that's a legitimate complaint, and I know exactly what you're talking about. One of the biggest problems is how the bot scripts add a higher value to player controlled pawns, and sure enough, practically every bot that isn't a teamate is always shooting at you.

    Bots can't jump further can humans, but they can evade your rockets before you even finishing shooting it.

    There are a few mutators floating around somewhere that tweak the bots. Not sure of the names, but Mut1on1bots or Mut-easybots. None of those mutators stop bot excessive dodging, but they can tweak the aiming somewhat.

    Try digging through the forums http://utforums.epicgames.com/forumdisplay.php?f=321 and you might find them. Just set it to show all threads.
     
  17. Ben1220

    Ben1220 New Member

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    Yes I've noticed that, very annoying for when you are playing with more then one bot.

    They can also dodge your projectiles with ease but that isnt a problem for me I lg them usually :p
     
  18. gades

    gades The Grudge Master!

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    Heh, for offline matches, I just play invasion. No need to play against bots then. Just nasty nearly unlimited monsters that attack from all angles :lol:
     

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