UT 2004? A new take by RO

[flamingknives]

Apologies if this has been discussed elsewhere, but:
Has anyone seen the latest map-pack for Red Orchestra?
Some of the maps are bleeding enormous!
Fog distances also seem to have been extended, so gunnery ranges are out to 500m or so (although it's difficult to tell) and only really limited by the terrain and scopes available. Hits the frame-rate a bit, but that may be due to my rig as much as anything.

I drove a truck around the map, pitched it into a lake after about 15minutes and I still hadn't visited all the places of interest.

 

[geogob]

Actually no, this has not been brought for. Interesting.

I have not downloaded nor installed the latest RO yet. would you mind posting a few screenshots, showing these maps and their size?

 

[SaraP]

I only have UT2003, not 2K4, so I can't play RO.

 

[cracwhore]

I have it installed, and I play it every now and then - although - I despise WWII shooters. Whenever I play it, I usually end up running out of ammo before I die.

I'm still not impressed by it. They have complete access to the engine, and this is the best they can do? The fog is still a problem, but I agree, it's not as unplayable as the previous versions.

I just can't get past the controls - which are quite worthless and confusing. There are just a lot of hoops you have to jump through to perform simple tasks. That, and the awful interface, graphics, etc.

As for the maps being huge - I'm really not that impressed either.

They're decently sized - but by no means would I call them huge. I think they're on par with some of the bigger INF maps. What maps exactly are you talking about? I've only played about three from the new version. Maybe I'm just not seeing the ones you're talking about.

Sara, why's that? Fearing the release of a new 'UT2K' game every year? Join the club.

 

[flamingknives]

The bigger ones are new.

The controls do suck - everytime I play I pine for the ability to lean around corners, toggle crouch, hold ironsights up to cover a target without it ending up swinging all over the place, the ability to carry a varitiey of stuff not dependent on 'character class'. Automatic bolting on sniper weapons sucks quite extensively, and the armour and gunnery modelling is utterly sh*te. Having to drop ironsights rather than it happening automatically when you sprint is pretty rubbish too.

I'll see if I can rig up some screenshots

 

[flamingknives]

'Official' screenshots
http://www.redorchestra.clanservers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3631

Some of the maps are pretty rubbish, and don't go looking for historical accuracy, as you won't find it.

Nonetheless, there is potential, at least for someone who knows what they are doing.

 

[Derelan]

The game is all backwards, they implement realism for all the wrong reasons in the wrong places.

The longer you aim your weapon, the more your weapon sways. Making defending useless, and snapshooting the successful one.

 

[zeep]

The maps are nice and certainly some of them very big. I wish we could use them for inf. RO3.3 actually has given me some good games. (Playing with some inf friends)

But yes the weapons sway which is all the more tempting for those awful hipshooter to hipshoot more. And because the smg's are very useful hipshooters the mappers limit the smg classes very much. (either history accurate or not, i would like to choose my own loadout) So many times i'm forced to use a rifle which i don't like.

It would have been better if the weapon sway at least made some sence other than your sight randomly moving all over the screen. You'd expect a move left would result in a sway left. Much like in rav2, or even COD. Anyway, that doesn't matter because draw a dot in the center of your screen (*) and find out that the sight swaying is only an animation playing, your actual aim is in the centre all the time.

(*) which i despise - this is an example.

I also don't like 20+ players servers. those games usually result in less teamplay anyway. About 16 max would be better in my opinion.

The tanks, i don't like them. Some of those new maps are good for infantry and i hope some servers will run them without tanks.

 

[Turin_Turambar]

RO 3.3 could be much better than it's now, with things like a decent gametype. And decent maps, some of their official maps are... ugh. And i am speaking about the gameplay, not the candy stuff.

 

[flamingknives]

Realism? In RO? Don't make me spit my tea out.

PzIV F2 or later in the initial stages of Barbarossa?
Iosef Stalin II heavy tanks on the peninsular into Sevastopol?
PTRD anti-tank rifles capable of destroying Panthers from the front?
Point-blank (sub 20m) shots from a Panther into the side of a T34 consistantly taking two shots to achieve a kill?
No dedicated tank-commander position in late-war tanks?
Section commanders calling in artillery strikes?
No ballistics?
Not being able to top-up a bolt-action rifle?

It does show that the UT2 engine may have potential for large maps. It isn't a very good FPS.

 

[flamingknives]

Right, I've rigged some of my own screenshots up now.

http://homepage.mac.com/michaelpiggott/GFR/ROScreenshots.htm

I wouldn't expect to hit much with iron sights over those ranges.

 

[yurch]

Well, the engine can physically do the ranges, but damn, that looks pretty bad. Excessively flat geometry and lighting.

 

[flamingknives]

Well, no-one said anything about the quality of the mappers.

I'm sure some of the INF bods could do better.

 

[Psychomorph]

*waiting for angelheart*

 

[rados]

PTRD anti-tank rifles capable of destroying Panthers from the front?

I don't think that's possible

http://www.redorchestra.clanservers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2144

 

[flamingknives]

Ah, so they've fixed that one. It definitely happened in 3.1.

I see that the ammo locations are the thing to aim for. That would explain why a 122mm shell from about 50m takes two hits to kill a Panther through the side.

The PTRD can still inflict a catastrophic kill through the front of a PzIV. Which shouldn't be possible either. And the fact that the PTRD can score a catastrophic kill at all ought to be unusual, but isn't. Am I right in thinking that the crew are unhurt until the tank is KO'd?

Oh, and no coaxs. Did I mention that? And the target reticle is the same on all the tanks. And the tanks don't have enough inertia.

 

[Gnam]

I haven't tried the summer offensive map pack, but I have played some RO. Overall, I think it's pretty good. Not perfect, but neither is Inf. The massive sway does annoy me though; in my experience aiming real rifles, sway will not move your weapon over more than about an inch. In RO, there seems to be almost half a foot between the highest and lowest points of sway, particularly when low on stamina. This is another thing that annoys me; when you're tired and breathing hard, your lungs do not get any bigger; thus the amount of distance your weapon moves does no change much, if any. What does change is the pace of the sway; you don't really breath any deeper, you just breath faster.

But the asbolute worst is the way sway increases exponentially the longer you shoulder your weapon in RO. I'm sure your arm does get tired after holding up a rifle for a long time, and even I've noticed that sometimes I make my most accurate shots right after bringing the weapon up to my shoulder, but it's not going to make your weapon swing wildly left and right for several inches after only about 10 seconds the way it does in RO. I live fired a Brown Bess musket for about 2 hours straight this summer; not only is the weapon relatively long and heavy compaired to modern weapons, you spend a lot of time holding the weapon in your one non-firing hand for extended periods while priming, not to mention wiping the flint, cleaning the touch-hole, cocking the hammer, changing the flint (I was having a lot of misfires) and I spent a lot more time with the weapon shouldered then usual, because I often had to aim and pull the trigger multiple times (one time it took 12 tries) before the thing actually went off. Bottom line is, after 2 hours, I still didn't see the muzzle swinging wildly left and right the way it does in RO; so I have a hard time beleiving holding a K98 for 10 seconds will do that to you.

Anyway, it does need some work in some miscelaneous areas, but overall, it's not a bad realism mod. It's still a lot more realistic than 90% of realism shooters out there.

 

[Psychomorph]

I deeply hate those balance intentions that screw things up.

Hope INF:Source (god praise it) will never be victim of that madness (not over 15%).

 

[WickedPenguin]

So let me ask you guys something: what games do you consider to be true realism?

After playing CS and other arcadey things, to me this RO *Beta* 3.3 is far more realistic in many ways than other full-release games that cater to the lowest common denominator of player. So many players seem intent on having a 50-part HUD with: radar to tell them where all their teammates are, a pretty little crosshair to tell them where to aim, endless bunny-hopping, and a big 3D X-ray graphic of their weapon's magazine giving them perfect view of how many rounds are left in their magazine.

RO is not perfect, but it's a damn sight more realistic than other stuff out there. The sway needs to be tightened up (I have several of the Mosin rifles used in the game and sway does get induced - but not THAT much) and the vehicles (which may I remind you guys are still a fairly recent addition) are not where they need to be yet.

However, with RO focusing on retail now, I think most people will be getting what they want from it. With money and source engine access (remember, 3.3 was made still with the basic modding code) they've got the tools now to make this thing work right. Just be patient.

BTW, I made one of the Summer Offensive maps: RO-KorsunAirfield_SO. It's the one with the captured Russian Panthers, set on the winter airfield during a smoky dawn. FYI, the map pack was a community experiment and was not directly supported by the RO devs outside of some minor coding assistance.

Some SO Map pics showing the overall atmosphere we created in our maps:

RO-KorsunAirfield_SO:
http://ut2004.wickedpenguin.com/nm/portfolio/wp_KorsunAirfield1.jpg
http://ut2004.wickedpenguin.com/nm/portfolio/wp_KorsunAirfield4.jpg

RO-IronAnnie_SO
http://ut2004.wickedpenguin.com/nm/portfolio/stj_IronAnnie1.jpg
http://ut2004.wickedpenguin.com/nm/portfolio/stj_IronAnnie4.jpg

RO-Perekop_SO:
http://ut2004.wickedpenguin.com/nm/portfolio/koe_Perekop6.jpg

 

[Turin_Turambar]

My main gripe with RO is not the realism, though it can be improved; the big flaw in RO its the main and single gamemode . Their devs could learn from DTAS, imo. No reinforcements, dynamic objetive, tight teamplay.