[US Elections] November 2nd

[Lizard Of Oz]

Middle left. Middle left and supporting total government control.

And people get it through your heads they didn't fail. They just went through the back door.

Not "total government control". Just a system in which big evil government semi-replaces big evil insurance companies. If you think that is "total government control", then guess who is in "total control" of your health-care now. Hint: It ain't you.

 

[Sir_Brizz]

I'm just sitting here in the middle-(left) bidding my time 'till I can retire and smoke dope without Ronald Reagan's Failed Drug-Warriors violating my rights.

Ehhh... the "Middle" doesn't want a single-payer system. Anyone who knows how economic markets work would not really be interested in a single payer system in America. We are too large for something like that to work, in fact, we've already tried a half-baked one, and look how well that works for the people who have to use it...

 

[Larkin]

Not "total government control". Just a system in which big evil government semi-replaces big evil insurance companies. If you think that is "total government control", then guess who is in "total control" of your health-care now. Hint: It ain't you.

Single payer wouldn't semi-replace anything. It would completely replace it. It would shift the control from you and your choices to one body. The entire point of healthcare reform should of been choice, but it was instead coverage. Which is the exact wrong approach to take.

 

[Sir_Brizz]

LOL

 

[Lizard Of Oz]

Ehhh... the "Middle" doesn't want a single-payer system. Anyone who knows how economic markets work would not really be interested in a single payer system in America. We are too large for something like that to work, in fact, we've already tried a half-baked one, and look how well that works for the people who have to use it...

In the middle you'll find other issue besides health-care. I'm not a one trick pony.

I admit my positions on health-care is left, even far-left, but on other issues I'm on the right. On average I'm middle-left.

Single payer wouldn't semi-replace anything. It would completely replace it. It would shift the control from you and your choices to one body. The entire point of healthcare reform should of been choice, but it was instead coverage. Which is the exact wrong approach to take.

"Choice" is an illusion. The Health-care insurance industry does all the choosing for you, even if you pay cash to your health-care provider.

 

[Larkin]

In the middle you'll find other issue besides health-care. I'm not a one trick pony.

I admit my positions on health-care is left, even far-left, but on other issues I'm on the right. On average I'm middle-left.



"Choice" is an illusion. The Health-care insurance industry does all the choosing for you, even if you pay cash to your health-care provider.

Choice is a market force in this instance. The choice would open the industry to market forces which would allow more coverage and cheaper prices.

If your entire argument is that the industry is in charge and have control of it now I fail to see how giving it to another body fixes any problems. And frankly, if you are against monopolies in the private sector why is OK if the government has one?

 

[hal]

Let's not forget in this conversation that if your employer subsidizes your healthcare then they very nearly have as much control of you as does your provider. Another non-fabulous idea.

 

[Sir_Brizz]

"Choice" is an illusion. The Health-care insurance industry does all the choosing for you, even if you pay cash to your health-care provider.

You could use this same argument to say your destiny is not yours because the government does all your choosing for you by telling you what you can and cannot do. Most insurance companies cover enough providers that you have plenty of your own choices of which providers to actually use (unless you need some highly specialized service, but that's a different beast).

The health care industry has lots of problems right now. Switching to single payer wouldn't even begin to fix those problems, and would almost certainly introduce a slew of other problems.

 

[Lizard Of Oz]

You could use this same argument to say your destiny is not yours because the government does all your choosing for you by telling you what you can and cannot do. Most insurance companies cover enough providers that you have plenty of your own choices of which providers to actually use (unless you need some highly specialized service, but that's a different beast).

The health care industry has lots of problems right now. Switching to single payer wouldn't even begin to fix those problems, and would almost certainly introduce a slew of other problems.

Most single payer haters use the tired argument that they don't want some bureaucrat between them and their doctor. Well sorry friends, but in the real world, there already is a bureaucrat between you and your doctor.

That was the point I was making, not whatever it was that inspired your post.

I want a single-payer health insurance system, and there's nothing you can do about it. You don't have to like, you don't have to agree to it, and chances are that you'll never have to live with it, and that doesn't make me want it any less.

 

[Sir_Brizz]

I certainly wasn't trying to sway your opinion, just stating that single payer wouldn't solve any problems.

 

[Larkin]

Does the fact that a bureaucrat is in between them and the doctor really harm the argument that they don't want a bureaucrat in between them and the doctor so they don't support a single payer system? All it means is they would support removing the bureaucrat all together so obviously the prospect of it getting worse is something they don't support. The entire point of the argument is it getting worse. Shocker I know. Understanding an argument is important.

And the deal with it **** pisses me off. Just saying.

And here is some groundbreaking ****. If prices get to high for insurance companies to do business they will be forced to close their doors and everyone will be on the government option, Aka single payer. What do think is happening? Yeah, we will have to deal with it.

 

[kiff]

Crash and burn... Axelrod cries spaghetti monster funding of the chamber of commerce.
This is just sad.

[m]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fKzitJJxeNM&feature=related[/m]

 

[Larkin]

That appears to be PEANUTS! That gets me every time.

I wonder if obama understands his campaign in 2008 set a record in undisclosed campaign funds.

 

[kiff]

I wonder if obama understands his campaign in 2008 set a record in undisclosed campaign funds.

He should've asked axelrod if he could prove obama didn't get funds from hamas

 

[Lizard Of Oz]

Does the fact that a bureaucrat is in between them and the doctor really harm the argument that they don't want a bureaucrat in between them and the doctor so they don't support a single payer system? All it means is they would support removing the bureaucrat all together so obviously the prospect of it getting worse is something they don't support. The entire point of the argument is it getting worse. Shocker I know. Understanding an argument is important.

And the deal with it **** pisses me off. Just saying.

And here is some groundbreaking ****. If prices get to high for insurance companies to do business they will be forced to close their doors and everyone will be on the government option, Aka single payer. What do think is happening? Yeah, we will have to deal with it.

So, replacing a profit motivated bureaucrat who will do anything to deny coverage with a government bureaucrat who only wants the paperwork off his/her desk is worse. Okay, I guess understanding an argument is important. Shocker I know.

 

[M.A.D.X.W]

The real David Axelrod.
[M]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e2OkMHvPXko&feature=related[/M]

 

[kiff]

The real David Axelrod.

And I thought he was a square! harhahrhahrhaharhar

 

[Larkin]

So, replacing a profit motivated bureaucrat who will do anything to deny coverage with a government bureaucrat who only wants the paperwork off his/her desk is worse. Okay, I guess understanding an argument is important. Shocker I know.

Lol, you do realize the government had its hand in it before this all came along, right? That is what I was talking about. Your ability to misunderstand arguments is ridiculously great.

Since when does a government bureaucrat only want paperwork off his/her desk? Lol, you don't even understand the basics! And lol at you understanding business. Keep it up! I just want to lose consumers...durrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr. With a massive 4 percent profit a huge increase in cost like what is happening WILL hurt them.

And lol, at you believing everything will be better with the government running healthcare. Yeah, brilliant.

 

[Lizard Of Oz]

Lol, you do realize the government had its hand in it before this all came along, right? That is what I was talking about. Your ability to misunderstand arguments is ridiculously great.

Since when does a government bureaucrat only want paperwork off his/her desk? Lol, you don't even understand the basics! And lol at you understanding business. Keep it up! I just want to lose consumers...durrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr. With a massive 4 percent profit a huge increase in cost like what is happening WILL hurt them.

And lol, at you believing everything will be better with the government running healthcare. Yeah, brilliant.

Lol, you do realize the government had its hand in it before this all came along, right? That is what I was talking about. Your ability to misunderstand arguments is ridiculously great.

You’re ability to clearly state your argument is woefully lacking. And you’re ability to insult anybody who disagrees with you is epic. What is this mental disorder that cause such anti-social behavior? Why do you lack the ability to debate intelligently and calmly? Why does it anger you so that I have a different opinion than you? Do you think that me simply posting my desire for a single payer system is somehow going to interfere with your dream of a plutocratic America?

Since when does a government bureaucrat only want paperwork off his/her desk? Lol, you don't even understand the basics!

Despite how Hannity, Beck, Limbaugh, et al… have instructed you, government employees are not demons seeking to take your money and eat your soul. They are your family, neighbors and fellow citizens who are simply trying to do the job they've been assigned. They work 9 to 5. They want to get home, play with the kids, have nice dinner and watch Monday Night Football. They are you. Well... not you, but you know.. normal people.

So, tell me o’great government employee expert, what do you think a government bureaucrat wants?

 

[Sir_Brizz]

You think politicians are normal people? Okay...

It takes a certain type of person to be in the limelight. I'd hazard a guess that most Americans do not personally know more than 1-2 politicians, in many areas probably even less than that.

Politicians are employees in a workforce just like other workers. They will do what they have to do to ensure the security of their job. That doesn't come by just "getting papers off your desk". I guess if you think these family, neighbors and fellow citizens of yours simply don't care about budgeting money and think throwing money at every problem is a cure-all, then they are exactly what you think they are.