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Unreal Tournament III Wishlist

Discussion in 'Unreal Tournament 3' started by Fuzz, Mar 5, 2008.

  1. DGUnreal

    DGUnreal Level Designer

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    Most of the stock WAR maps are not even 16 player capable. Their Node count is not high enough to properly support this many. Look at the map guides from any of the 32-player ONS clans.

    UT3 with 64 players would be great, but it would require some re-tooling of the vehicles and layouts to support that game style.
    As I mentioned in another post, Warfare should have been 64 player with UT3+BF+Tribes style play thrown together: troop transports, deployable pickups, player classes, etc. It moves away from the original "tournament" but it also moves into where much of the current popular games are oriented.
     
  2. Anuban

    Anuban Your reward is that you are still alive

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    It needs to use more concepts from UC2 ... Juggernauts!!!!! Skaarj!!!! Even Malcolm and Brock!!! Come on where are the cool player models? And I really disagree that all the characters in UT3 are musclebound meatboxes. Bishop certainly isn't and a few of the Iron Guard are not all that physically intimidating. Also using Cole is a bad example as he is the only really muscle bound charater in Gears (the rest are fairly normal sized ... Dom is kind of muscular but no more so than a dude who works on 4 times a week or other Marines I have seen so it is NOT unrealistic) and to me his design is nothing like the old Juggs or Othello.

    Actually Othello is not that muscle bound. If you have the Cole model for PS3 you can easily compare the two and see that Othello can look pretty slim depending on how you outfit him. I just don't see any real proof that the character designs are poor for the humans. Now the robots are just plain awful and using the Krall is just stupid when the much better Skaarj (especially the ones from UC2) are available in the Unreal Universe.
     
  3. T2A`

    T2A` I'm dead.

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    Except there is no difference at all. That makes it even worse, as they already knew the maps were too small for 32 players and then went ahead and added support for twice that amount. Why the hell would they do that? To keep on pretending and giving people false impressions that Warfare is anything like they originally wanted it to be? :eek:
     
  4. Renegade Retard

    Renegade Retard Defender of the newbie

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    If I had one wish that I could wish for UT3, it would be that all the children to join hands and sing together in the spirit of harmony and peace.

    If I had two wishes I could make for UT3, the first would be for all the children of the world to join hands and sing in the spirit of harmony and peace. And the second would be for 30 million dollars a month to be given to me, tax-free in a Swiss bank account.

    You know, if I had three wishes I could make for UT3, the first, of course, would be for all the children of the world to get together and sing, the second would be for the 30 million dollars every month to me, and the third would be for encompassing power over every living being in the entire universe.

    And if I had four wishes that I could make for UT3, the first would be the crap about the kids definitely, the second would be for the 30 million, the third would be for all the power, and the fourth would be to set aside one month each year to have an extended 31-day orgasm, to be brought out slowly by Rosanna Arquette and that model Paulina-somebody, I can't think of her name. Of course my lovely wife can come too and she's behind me one hundred percent here, I guarantee it.

    Wait a minute, maybe the sex thing should be the first wish, so if I made that the first wish, because it could all go boom tomorrow, then what do you got, y'know?

    No, no, the kids, the kids singing would be great, that would be nice.

    But wait a minute, who am I kidding? They're not going to be able to get all those kids together. I mean, the logistics of the thing is impossible, more trouble than it's worth! So -- we reorganize!

    Here we go.

    First, the sex thing. We go with that. Second, the money. No, we go with the power second, then the money. And then the kids. Oh wait, oh jeez, I forgot about revenge against my enemies! Okay, I need revenge against all my enemies, they should die like pigs in hell! That would be my fourth wish. And, of course, my fifth wish would be for all the children of the world to join hands and sing together in the spirit of harmony and peace.
     
  5. Wail of Suicide

    Wail of Suicide Member

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    Well, I don't know really either, but my guess it'd end up being really chaotic and really spammy. I guess if voice communication were better you might end up getting some meager amount of communication via it, but the majority of it would probably end up people running around with Shock Rifles and Miniguns blazing while Mantas swoop in endlessly for easy kills. And either it'd be balanced so that you'd end up in a perpetual stalemate, or it'd be a steamroll.

    Just my general opinion from watching and playing some of the bigger 32p ONS maps.
     
  6. -AEnubis-

    -AEnubis- fps greater than star

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    Well, Epic can probably lean on the old community content excuse. "Even if our maps aren't ideal with 32 plus players, the community can always make larger maps."

    I prefer Dice's approach in making maps scale in size to the player max. It's genius. That is still one of the biggest things I love about BF2142.

    Barring all that, saying that 16 players should have 7-9 nodes is silly. 5 linear maybe, but 7-9? If they aren't linear, you'd be hard pressed to defend back nodes, without spreading your troops way too thin. You should be able to organize squads of guys, at least pairs, to attack, and defend nodes, and you want enough guys on the board to make defending any node, not a stand and stare duty.

    Hard to say for certain with how the node linkage can change, but I think 2 guys, per team, per node, sounds like much more entertaining play than the number of nodes you're suggesting. IE: 5 nodes - at least 20 players total.

    The point of the scale is to see the action. Not spread the same amount out IMO.
     
  7. Mabz

    Mabz New Member

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    I wish -AEnubis- could update his menu so that I can see the UT3 shock rifle in it :)
     
  8. Interbellum

    Interbellum I used to be a man

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    Well, bot selection and customization like you had in UT2K4, including full VP support, would be really frickin' nice...
     
  9. SkaarjMaster

    SkaarjMaster enemy of time

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    Actually, bot selection and customization like we had in UT would be even better!:)
     
  10. pinnacle

    pinnacle New Member

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    Can they really lean on this excuse for as many things as they do? Things that are implemented in CustomUT for example. You bring up a very, very intriguing point Aenubis... can we get some other people in this thread to chime in on this aspect of Epic's game development philosophy?
     
  11. Sir_Brizz

    Sir_Brizz Administrator Staff Member

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    It's more of a design philosophy, really. What they do is design the game a certain way, then people whine about it and someone makes CustomUT, which half of the players hate and half of the players love, that doesn't really fix anything just changes the way the game was designed to some other design.
     
  12. Lungri

    Lungri New Member

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    This is the sort of thing I was talking about putting together. Why not take the best/most reasonable of these, and put a mod team together to implement them. That UT Generations is a great idea, since people liked **** from all the old ones. As for me

    Assault and Ripper back in...really the two most brilliant things about the original UT

    6 rocket launcher, better coverage/makes grenades worth something/more dangerous to vehicles

    Human weapons more on par with vehicle damage/speed potential, so you don't just get flattened

    Vehicles more on par with human damage/speed potential...it's really unbalanced

    More Meshes and textures

    More mutators...volatile ammo especially, that was one of the best.

    More character options (even all the old ones would be good). I really don't dig Epic's design style...and juggernauts is just a style change...look at Gears of War...same idea, big overly masculine creatures with no necks in gigantor armor that are supposed to be able to hop around in UT.

    More weapons, and inventive ones too...for one of the few games without hitscan/realistic weapons, they're really so simple now.

    Really I think those things would go the farthest to improve what they've got
     
  13. awaw

    awaw I didn't survive the '08 BUF crash

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    Yes! Let's make every vehicle like UT04's scorpion: basically a hoverboard with a little more health!
     
  14. LtClifff

    LtClifff New Member

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    To be honest, this game is extremely polished in terms of gameplay and visuals. There is just a huge abundance of things that get on your nerves. stock UT3 is easily 5x better than stock 2Kx.

    Things I would change are these:

    1. current menu sucks, loading a menu is pointless.
    2. Not enough tweakable options, 2Kx got this right
    3. shouldn't have to change mutators and settings every time you load the game
    4. more compatibility for mods, EG: cant make custom factions, can't alter hud

    See, only annoyances. But there are alot.

    oh one big thing though... WHERE IS ASSUALT
     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2008
  15. -AEnubis-

    -AEnubis- fps greater than star

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    Assault... lol

    It's funny, every time they make a gametype, it gets popular, but with glaring flaws. They fix the flaw, and suddenly the gametype isn't popular anymore.

    In UT, both AS and DOM got play, and in 2k3 BR got play too. In all three gametypes, their second iterations seemed half as popular, despite having much more solid gameplay.

    It's no wonder they stop supporting them.
     
  16. Crotale

    Crotale _________________________ _______________

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    Sound like UT3 altogether. Most of the previous games' gameplay flaws were corrected in UT3, yet hardly anyone appears to be playing it. In other words, people want what they already had and want to continue b1tching about it.

    If UT3 had been UT2007 and continued the 2K4 gameplay style with a little bit more grounded play, and upscaled 2K4 graphics, ten to one everyone would b1tch about it being too close to 2K4 but they would be buying it and playing it.

    Okay, who am I kidding?
     
  17. -AEnubis-

    -AEnubis- fps greater than star

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    Someone said something about sequels just not going well, and it seemed to be the case.

    Even though I feel like 2142 is still pretty popular, it really does pale in comparison to it's predecessors. Maybe something like Gears is the direction they should take. New game, same devs.

    I think the quake series peaked on it's 3rd title, but it's definitely down hill from there, and now they are beta testing a throw back title...

    I just hate to see the weapon set go. Really dig the UT Rox/flak/shock thing they got going on. Oh well.
     
  18. DGUnreal

    DGUnreal Level Designer

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    12-16 players would normally be 5 to 7 nodes (max 9 with spurs), 16-32 players would be 7 to 9 (max 11-13 with spurs). Players should move as a front, you don't end up with 1 player per node if you had 7 per team and 7 nodes. At any one time you normally have only 2 or 3 nodes to defend or attack when you have proper node layout and linking.
    Look at any of the UT2004 16/24/32-player clans such as TitanONS.
    Clans like this also have guides for mappers and specified node count designs.

    My ONS maps such as SandStone and SandStoneNight were designed for 16-32 player clan ONS. 11 Nodes.

    UT3 has maps with 1 node. What's that good for? 1-on-1 WAR? ;)


    The scalable maps in BF2142 are a really good idea.
    I've mentioned a few times that Warfare/Conquest should have been the best of ONS/BF2142/Tribes.
    With UT2004/UT3 it could have been accomplished by having the node count change on player count, but each map would have to be designed specifically to handle this. Most community mappers have a difficult time with creating regular ONS/WAR maps, this would only confuse them more. :)


    With UT2004 they also "leaned on" the community to fill in a lot of gaps in map design styles.
    This is IMHO both one of the strengths and weaknesses of the UT series, the gameplay and map design is just too diverse, and often results in maps that have exploits or unbalanced play. Servers and gamers often tend to under-populate or over-populate maps for their design.

    With UT2004 there were larger ONS maps that could be played with 8-12 people (Dria, etc.), but UT3 WAR maps IMHO are only good for 4-8.
    This design was probably by choice because of: lack of time to release, console target support, support for lower PC specs at time of UT3 development.


    The "problem" with UT is that it tries to be all things to all people.
    UT3 tried to bring the reins in a bit (pun intended), but that resulted in its own community backlash.
    Most other games don't support user-content or outlandish extensibility through mutators for very good reasons. Most community people creating the stuff don't know what they are doing regarding game play, size, layout, etc. That's why we end up with servers running DM-MileSizeCubeRedux][ with 50 wacked-out mutators on it. It's no longer even UT at this point.
     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2008
  19. rhirud

    rhirud Fast learning novice

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    The game needs
    -Stats to be brought ingame, with achievement and ranking medals as exist in Quake wars
    -For initial spawn placements to be sorted out - especially if you start with your prime laready built (now , in Torlan, either 90% of you spawn in base or 90% spawn in the prime)
    -The Nightshade needs 200 less health
    -The Scavenger needs 80 more health
    -The Avril should not be able to be shared - the avril is mine
    -The highest ranking player gets the orb if it's a scrum.
    -Flak arc needs to be higher
    -Cicada view needs to be fixed
    -We need far, far bigger War maps, with 7 being the minimum ammount of nodes for a map.

    Community fixes that should be put in the main patch
    -Teams should be randomised between maps
    -Package not found should be fixed in custom maps
    -Uneven teams need to be automatically fixed.
    -Uwindows

    Lastly, and controvertially, gravity. There needs to be around 8% less of it. The vehichles will be a lot more fun and stunty, especially the scavanger and the whole game will feel lighter, more flowing and more fun.

    At the moment the main problem is that the game feels a little to heavy and intense. It literally needs to lighten up.
     
  20. -AEnubis-

    -AEnubis- fps greater than star

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    heh, rhirud still speaks of this game like WAR/ONS is the only gametype.

    A WAR map with 1 node should play up to 8 or 10 people just fine. Like you said, if playes move "as a front" then it's fine, you don't have 1 guy per node.

    That's also why I said, a few more nodes would be fine if they were linear. Then the teams run as a front, because they aren't getting back noded.
     

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