1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. Two Factor Authentication is now available on BeyondUnreal Forums. To configure it, visit your Profile and look for the "Two Step Verification" option on the left side. We can send codes via email (may be slower) or you can set up any TOTP Authenticator app on your phone (Authy, Google Authenticator, etc) to deliver codes. It is highly recommended that you configure this to keep your account safe.

UE1 - UT Unreal 227 editor

Discussion in 'Mapping' started by WhirlWindWabbit, Aug 16, 2010.

  1. WhirlWindWabbit

    WhirlWindWabbit Level Designer

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2010
    Messages:
    16
    Likes Received:
    0
    One of the most unappreciated things in the Unreal community is the new 227 patch. Mainly because people don't know enough about it. I'm here to try and clear up some things about the new patch, from a level designer's perspective.

    First off, I want to say that the developer of the patch, Smirftsch, was given full permission from Epic Games to fix the old code in Unreal. He was given the source code for the game from Epic, and he is doing everything with Epic's permission. Even with this said hundreds of times, people still find reason to doubt him. Secondly, the reason he does not fix the code for Unreal Tournament instead: Epic has not given him the permission to do so. If you would like the new changes to be implemented into Unreal Tournament, you can help by sending Epic an e-mail to show that there are people still living in the old community and are willing to support it, instead of flaming the developers. Lastly, not only the game engine got the massive overhaul. The editor has also been fixed up tremendously, and tons of new features were added.

    If you wish to check all the bug fixes and the new implementations of the new version of Unreal, please visit Old Unreal.

    Now let's get down to business! Here are the important things you need to know for the new UnrealEditor 2.1, and the reasons to use the new version of the game if you are a level designer.

    Reasons to switch:

    - Improved zoning: Legend Entertainment added a feature in Unreal back in 1999 that drastically reduces the amount of zones in a level. I think we've all seen "hidden" zones inside semi-solid brushes. Even though these zones don't do anything, they are still counted towards your total zone count. When the editor reaches 63 zones, it starts merging zones together since it can not go over this number. This sucks, of course, because you can have a zone that has water in it merged with 1/2 of your level without any warning if you're not careful. The change that LE implemented is called "Zone Merging". This means the following: for each zone you create you must manually add a zone info actor inside that particular zone. If you fail to do that, the editor will presume that that zone is "fake" (the same as hidden zones inside semi-solid brushes), and it will merge the zone with the zone next to it. The upside to this is that there are no more hidden zones inside your semi-solid brushes. The new Unreal patch enables this option, as it was not enabled in the old version of Unreal, with the exception of Unreal Gold. Pay attention to this.
    - Emitters: the new version of the editor introduces emitters to the world of UnrealEngine 1.
    - Static Meshes: Full support for static meshes. Same static meshes that were introduced in UnrealEngine 2 (Unreal 2, UT2003, UT2004 etc.). Meshes can be created two ways:
    a) in a modeling program and than imported into Unreal (skins included),
    b) you can select a brush and convert it into a static mesh (same as UT200x).
    - Drastically faster rebuild times for two reasons:
    - improved BSP code,
    - you can use static meshes that are unaffected by geometry, therefore cutting rebuild times down in half or even more.
    - Drastically faster loading times and smaller file sizes: you can get you level size down more than 60% with extensive usage of static meshes, and you can re-use static meshes, reducing the amount of meshes you need to create. This all loads the level/saves the level much faster in-game and in the editor. On top of that, packages with static meshes are really, really small. You need to work hard to get it up to 1 MB. This is great because it allows to create vastly more complex and dynamic environments than before. Usage of static meshes also reduces the amount of polygons the BSP creates, and since they are rendered faster and more efficiently than solid BSP geometry, you can have better performance in an identical scene, if you replace some of the complex geometry with static meshes. This also reduces (or eliminates, if you wish) the need for semi-solid brushes.
    - You can use Static Meshes to replace movers. Movers are poorly lit as they have been since the first days of Unreal, especially when you have a complex mover. Just add a mesh in the place of a mover and set up an AttachMover in the void behind it (or inside the mesh itself if you opt for a small cube for instance) and animate the mover. Just don't forget to attach the mesh in question with the co-responding mover. That way you can reduce any problems with movers.
    - Additive world: A very important thing that I feel needs mentioning is the ability to create a world that is purely additive. This means that, identically as in the new UnrealEngine 3, you can create a world simply with static meshes without any BSP geometry what so ever (you don't have to first subtract a huge cube and than add stuff back in). In this respect, the 227 patch makes the UnrealEngine1 more powerful than UnrealEngine2. You only have to keep one thing in mind: if you want lighting to be rebuilt, you need to add one BSP based shape in the level. It can be a small 1x1x1 cube outside of the playable level, but it needs to be there.
    - Distance Fog: distance fogging can greatly improve performance if you have vast open scenes or scenes that are complex. On top of that it looks awesome if used correctly.
    - Improved texture aligning: Unreal 227 fixes the way the engine tries to align surfaces that are set as walls. We all know that the engine could properly align the surfaces if you selected "Align to floor", but it usually ****s itself when you select "Align/Pan to wall". Even with two adjacent, simple brushes, it would sometimes struggle. This problem is now fixed. No more rotating brushes to align textures to "floor".
    - Overall improved stability. No more sporadic crashes.
    - Improved 2D editor.
    - Improved script loading (when you load a script the browser does not collapse together anymore, among other things).
    - You can select the "Replace textures" more than once without having to exit the editor.
    - Improved texture browser.
    - Support for projectors.
    - Support for shiny surfaces via the "Environment" flag in the surface properties window (key F5).
    - "Bright corners" flag works now,
    - "Dirty Shadows" flag works now,
    - A new option "bEnhancedSightCheck" enables enemies to see through masked and translucent geometry,
    - Movers can be set not to render static shadows,
    - Fluid info actor for realistic wavy imitation of water surfaces.
    - Real-time and non real-time preview of backdrop (skybox).
    - A new 3D render has been implemented: Lighting only. That way you can see your geometry without any textures (surfaces are displayed as pure white) to check how you lighting behaves against it.
    - Integrated OpenGL support for the render in the editor. You can also use D3D. However, D3D is generally slower in Unreal as OpenGL. Please note that the new OpenGL is improved over the old one; you can view zoning and BSP cuts in OpenGL now, a feature you did not have before.
    - SunLight actor: you can add a single light that acts as a sunlight and use it to illuminate vast open spaces. No need to add dozens of lights to illuminate outdoors. Using this removes "bright" and "green" spots where two or more lights usually meet because their brightness is added together.
    - Lastly, the biggest reason to switch: even though the UE3 still has more features (HDR lighting, bloom, support for high-poly models), it lacks in one particular thing: support for single player. Even though the Unreal monsters are a bit outdated, for people that want to create a single player mod, this platform holds the most promise because it reduces the time needed to code for new game types, new enemy A.I. and the need to create new enemy pawns, or create high-polygon models that are expected in today's games. In the end, you can just replace the old monster models, and the rest will look as good as UT2004, or, with some effort, even better, with substantially less coding changes that would be needed for UT2004.

    Static Meshes specific:

    - UVs are preserved if you make a mesh from brushes inside the editor,
    - You are not required to combine brushes into a single shape before turning them into a mesh. You can just select the desired brushes and convert them into one single mesh. You can also convert brushes and static meshes into a single mesh. This doesn't work for substracted brushes though (e.g. if you have an arch), and doing this the mesh will be a lot cleaner than with (de)intersecting brushes into a single shape, but there is a lot of wasted faces on the mesh. It's recommended that you export the mesh into a 3d editing software and clean it up to reduce the overall poly count.

    Things to be careful about:

    - Zoning. Remember, for each zone you create, you must add a zone info actor,
    - Meshes act the same way as meshes in UT2004. They use vertex lighting, but they do occlude geometry.

    Also make sure to read UnrealED 2.1 release notes, and the general 227 patch release notes.

    I will add to this list as more features are introduced, or on request.

    Please note that some things mentioned here will come shipped with version 227g, which is currently still in development.

    Please use this thread for any and all UnrealEd 2.1 related question (Unreal version 227f or higher). I will do my best to answer any problems, and we can also eliminate the amount of such threads.

    If possible, it would be great if this got sticky'd, to reduce unnecessary threads.
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2010
  2. heyunrealaddress

    heyunrealaddress New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2010
    Messages:
    1
    Likes Received:
    0
  3. Creavion

    Creavion New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2005
    Messages:
    471
    Likes Received:
    0
    Some additions...

    Instead to "waste" Zones for Water you can also use "DynamicZoneInfos" (similar to the UEngine 2 Volumes), since they are do not effect the ZoneCount. (I made some weeks ago a testmap where I placed over 9000 of them... those dynamic zones can not be rendered anyway)

    @Static Meshes:
    Unlike UEngine 2 converted brush constructions can have a smooth lighting, make it nearly impossible to differ them from imported *.obj meshes. Also better than in UEngine 2: No screwed UVs (in case of in ed built SMs)
    Also do not try to (de)intersect every brush if you want to convert it to a brush. You can select muliply brushes (even in combination with placed static meshes) to create a new static mesh. And unlike ut2004 you can also export a mesh frame/static mesh as *.obj.

    uhm static mesh packages are that small, because they only include the geometry data of the mesh itself, with the set material commands (or how they can be called, in ut2004 and co they are also very small, and if not you can assume the package "designer" included the static mesh skins there as well)

    @Static Mesh packages: After some collision reports of me it seems they are working now. However there is still no official editor interface integration.
    You can also make it like this: Create a mover on the normal way. Rightclick on the mover, "make current". Kill the brush mover and place a new one. Over actor properties to have to set DT_Mesh, you have to add a static mesh, usemeshcollision to true and.. most likely you have to change some small other settings as well. (simply compare a placed static mesh with a static mesh mover in terms of display and collision settings, this should do the trick.. I think). But so far I dont know if they are any issues with online playing or something like that. I also can not test any detail there...

    @LightingOnly: Does sadly not work with Masked textures/(static) meshes, otherwise you got the point.

    @Flags: Bright Corners is fixed/supposed to be fixed ^^?
    I showed Smirftsch some months ago one my ut bright corners problem maps, with that thing he was able to fix it. So now it can be used without worrying of random "black error" shadows.

    @Dirty Shadows: Also adds "random shadows", but on purpose and of course not pitch black. Looks very nice on bigger surfaces like the grass on nyleve. Dirty Shadows flag is not new, it was just never working.

    bEnhancedSightCheck: If you turn this to true in the LevelInfo, pawns are able to see through masked and .. translucent?? geometry.

    supportsrealcrouching: Anyone remember ONP where it was possible to crouch through smaller holes? Now this is possible in the normal sp as well. However to make it work, you have to turn this to true as well.

    @ShadowCast: From now on you can disable the rendering of static shadows in the mover properties. For several movers it makes sense. Bool was always set to false, but it rendred static shadows nevertheless.
     
  4. Leo(T.C.K.)

    Leo(T.C.K.) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 14, 2006
    Messages:
    4,764
    Likes Received:
    30
    You forgot to mention a feature which I specifially requested while working on Unreal PSX remake project and that is, stats for surfaces now work, you can see values of align and scale. So no longer is the need to guess the values of the surface, which in non uniform scales can be quite painful...

    Of course this is in the in-developement 227g patch...

    Also not sure if I can talk anymore about oldunreal stuff, because I am not anymore a part of the community as of lately. But you see, I am certainly not badmouthing about the patch as someone seems to think.

    Ok I will admit something here:

    Sure, I do think it has few minor things that are bothering me, I don't like the brute rocket decal, don't like the tons of new actors being in old packages (which makes compatibility with UT and older Unreal versions really problematic on the new maps, like the beta actors and stuff, what is wrong with having a separate package for that stuff, like it was intended? But of course Casey etc wanted the patch to be different and claims it is not a mod but a patch and that everyone should switch...which is imo a bit selfish decision there) and the patch is not compatible with 226f, but nothing could be done with that, but that is also reason why there are still lot of 225 servers and you can't really ignore those people or block them off communication because they use 225 and don't wanna be forced to use new patch for everything, that is just silly.

    Lots of UT players wanted to play the Unreal Forgotten mappack (although there was early beta from like 2002 avaiable which worked on UT) and couldn't for example...
     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2010
  5. Creavion

    Creavion New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2005
    Messages:
    471
    Likes Received:
    0
    the mentioned decals have been already changed to make them more UT conform.
    It doesnt matter if the actors are embeded into the u files or not because if any of the new content is used the backwards compatibility is of course lost, older clients just dont support the new content and features. You wouldnt expect that static meshes are working in an older version, this is pretty much the same. Dont you agree?
    It only makes a difference in this unique case for this mod with beta models, because then content is interfering then with 227g. This is unfortunate but doesnt justify another separate package to deal with, because the mod can work around this problem.
    Aside this exception backwards compatibility is preserved for any (commonly known) mod and map.

    edit p.s:
    PS: all this is entirely unrelated to ued2.1
     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2010
  6. Leo(T.C.K.)

    Leo(T.C.K.) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 14, 2006
    Messages:
    4,764
    Likes Received:
    30
    If someone used translocator before in some map it will have conflicts too, the new one is called utranslocator. But yeah I would like to see the beta models and classes being separately in different package. Staticmeshes are new feature in 227g, pretty recent actually. And Forgotten mappack isn't using static meshes, yet it is incompatible becasue it use lots of those actors and obviously actor disagreed with making it UT or 225 compatible which is sad really. The guys over at newbiesplayground.com wanted to convert it.
     
  7. WhirlWindWabbit

    WhirlWindWabbit Level Designer

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2010
    Messages:
    16
    Likes Received:
    0
    Updated first post.

    By the way, I have 227g as I'm helping Smirftsch test it :)
     
  8. Chopin

    Chopin New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2005
    Messages:
    174
    Likes Received:
    0
    Why would you need permission for this but not anything else?
     
  9. Creavion

    Creavion New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2005
    Messages:
    471
    Likes Received:
    0
    Because Epic owns the rights.. maybe? Only can decide that. :rolleyes:

    I think.. me2. BTW: you are welcome
     
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2010
  10. Chopin

    Chopin New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2005
    Messages:
    174
    Likes Received:
    0
    No but I mean, you don't need permission to code anything else for UT, even native anticheats, but to put static meshes in it you do?
     
  11. WhirlWindWabbit

    WhirlWindWabbit Level Designer

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2010
    Messages:
    16
    Likes Received:
    0
    The thing is that static meshes need a completely new rendering system which needs to be integrated into the core of the engine. Classical Unreal(Tournament) meshes only have cylindrical collision, they light up poorly, there really is no good way to import/export meshes without problems etc. The meshes in Unreal are coded into the heart of the engine, and the editor was updated so that working with them is easy - even importing and exporting stock meshes that shipped with the game. Same goes for collision detection, which was completely re-written, not to mention lighting, meshes occlude geometry, they cast realistic shadows etc.

    My bet is that if there was a way to code this for UT without messing with the source code, it would probably already be done.
     
  12. AnthraX

    AnthraX New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2005
    Messages:
    20
    Likes Received:
    0
    This pretty much sums it up. Many people would love to see the OldUnreal patches merged with the UT source but their contract only covers Unreal. I'd love to take over the UT source myself but it takes a huge effort from Epic to organize it and legal issues are a big holdup.
     
  13. Creavion

    Creavion New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2005
    Messages:
    471
    Likes Received:
    0
    Meshmaker has not anything to do with static meshes. Either you import them as obj from Maya, Max etc or you create them from a brush / several marked brushes or brush+static mesh combinations. Static meshes are also not UV limited as regular meshes.

    Yes, static meshes "produce" static shadows (unless you deactivate bShadowCast) and since recently also capable to "accept" static shadows, also deactivatable if you want (static shadows are the "real" shadows), e.g it makes sense to deactivate shadowcast for plants and trees (better use of map projectors) and somtimes it makes sense to deactivate bBuildStaticLights (the bool which is responsible that the static mesh "receives" the static shadows while bShadowCast "produces" it).
    However, what they CAN NOT is to "read" the textures for alpha blend or mask pixels. Means (alpha or mask -> let shadow pass)
    So that IS NOT possible:
    http://img12.abload.de/img/maskshadows06bvxq.jpg
    But look here.. the source engine can not do that either...
    http://h-4.abload.de/img/cs-hause-87967orj.jpg
    (the trees)

    Additive world: Work with Distance Fog... and btw you can use DistantLightActors for unlimited light radius. Just for the luz I tested it out recently, you CAN light out with one single light a complete test cube with the nearly size of the complete editor field.

    DynamicZoneInfo: Yes and no. Like with volumes in UEngine 2 you can only see it as "wireframe" (if you select the actor).
    You can use the DZI as cube, sphere, cylinder and uhm script (whatever this exactly means).
     
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2010
  14. Creavion

    Creavion New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2005
    Messages:
    471
    Likes Received:
    0
    Uhm, you did not get that, I think. What you are talking about is regular meshes with UV limit and I am speaking of STATIC MESHES. They are several mesh systems
    the old vertex meshes, used in unreal 1 primary, with UT skeletalmeshes were introduced (dont know when exactly) and now static meshes, which are intended to use as level geometry parts.

    dots comment:

     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2010
  15. .:..:

    .:..: New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2006
    Messages:
    61
    Likes Received:
    0
    He is talking about compression on each vertex on normal vertex mesh (thus rounding the verts on brush to mesh conversion).
    However the vertexes are not compressed on static meshes so there's no rounding present.
     
  16. iLikeTheUDK

    iLikeTheUDK New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2011
    Messages:
    29
    Likes Received:
    0
    BTW, a change that I like 2 c is adding Unreal LightMass in there.
    Lightmass is one of my favourite features in UE3, and I would like 2 see that in Unreal v2.27
    Another: "Salamander" emitters, like in Unreal2Ed.
    Also support 4 EAX Advanced HD (2.55, 3, 4 and/or 5) like in later engine versions.
    How about adding more mods (like UPhysX, RealCTF, UnrealUpgrade, SUSongPlayer, etc.)
     
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2011

Share This Page