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UDK Showcase: Hawken

Discussion in 'News & Articles' started by hal, Jun 27, 2011.

  1. hal

    hal Dictator Staff Member

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    This came in along with news of the updated UDK build, but it looked too cool not to have its own space. Hawken is the latest UDK game to be showcased by Epic Games and one look at the pics and you can see why. That pic of the inside of the mech looking out has me practically salivating for a quality title of this sort.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
     
  2. DannyMeister

    DannyMeister UT3 Jailbreak Coder

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    This has already been posted in some other threads (and linked in the UDK showcase page), but if you haven't seen it, check out the Hawken video from a few months back.

    [M]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zm7gEDhrPfk[/M]

    Edit: Correction, this is a different video from the one linked on the UDK showcase page. Check them both out!
     
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2011
  3. KDR_11k

    KDR_11k [make art]

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    It's great that it makes game development easy but the engine REALLY needs lag compensation, having to guess where you have to aim hitscan weapons to score a hit isn't fun.
     
  4. DannyMeister

    DannyMeister UT3 Jailbreak Coder

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    The chosen lag compensation techniques employed per UDK game should be a case-by-case choice by their developers, but it would be nice if it had some standard ones baked in. As it is now, there is nothing stopping developers from using lag compensation in UDK, and some I'm sure do. It's usually a matter of whether you do your traces from a client-side or server-side function. I'll take UT3's server-side detection (as much as that can hamper me in high ping servers) over Valve's warping bullets any day, though! :p
     
  5. ambershee

    ambershee Nimbusfish Rawks

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    The game developer can indeed choose what kind of compensation they want. I prefer client side, but I do understand the benefits of server side too :)
     
  6. Sir_Brizz

    Sir_Brizz Administrator Staff Member

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    You should just do full client side so that the hilarity of ZeroPing can ensue again.

    1) Connect to server.
    2) Pick up sniper rifle.
    3) disconnect Ethernet.
    4) run around and headshot everyone.
    5) reconnect Ethernet.
    6) M-M-M-M-MONSTER KILLL
     
  7. ambershee

    ambershee Nimbusfish Rawks

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    :lol:

    That's some amazingly bad programming xD
     
  8. Plumb_Drumb

    Plumb_Drumb yumb

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    lol, I've never thought of that.

    never liked zero ping.
     
  9. elmuerte

    elmuerte Master of Science

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    Actually, I didn't do it like that. My program simply acted as proxy between the client and server and delayed packets on demand. It was like stepping on a water hose.
    Disconnecting the internet would be detected by the client and disconnect you from the server.
     
  10. Bi()ha2arD

    Bi()ha2arD Toxic!

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    CHEATER!
     
  11. KDR_11k

    KDR_11k [make art]

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    Valve's system isn't clientside, the server merely calculates what the client saw and if it would have hit anything then.

    I'd rather have warping bullets than bullets that have to be fired at thin air for no real reason.

    If it's per-game then maybe developers should be clued into it as I haven't seen a single UE3 game that actually does it. Meanwhile DNF has lag compensation.

    It's especially bad on consoles where the games are usually hosted on connections that can't handle the playercount.
     
  12. Plumb_Drumb

    Plumb_Drumb yumb

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    I don't know two bits about what Valve does, but what you described is pretty much client side.

    it's fake and ghey.
     
  13. Spiney

    Spiney New Member

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    Iirc Valve uses a timeframe in server time of where the character is, and where he was half a second earlier -- think of it as a motion blur trail.
    That means even though you might have missed a shot in current server time, the system checks if you hit somewhere in a previous state.

    This works fine most of the time. But in high ping environment this might cause you to get shot through corners. You are behind cover on your client, but on your opponent's client you weren't yet. If you opponent hit you on his client, due to the lag compensation on the server you might get shot 'through' a wall or occluder.

    Battlefield 2 used a system like that, but it was badly tuned and player actually had to shoot just behind a player (into the trail) to hit him. Of course players complained, since this was just highly unrealistic and opposed to leading the bullets like in other games.

    I believe Halo 3 uses a system where a snapshot is taken in client side of the shot, this is then used to correct any faulty server side decisions.

    I read about all this a while ago, memory is a little hazy, so feel free to correct me :)
     
  14. Bi()ha2arD

    Bi()ha2arD Toxic!

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    Still better than battlefield that compensates for 100 ping by default. So the hitbox is BEHIND the player instead of infront if him or on him. HF getting shot after you went around the corner and hf shooting people in the face and not doing any damage.
     
  15. Sir_Brizz

    Sir_Brizz Administrator Staff Member

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    This is pretty much how all modern 'client side' netcodes work. Even newnet in UT2004 did it this way (with some flubbing). The challenge is getting a perfect balance. Valve's games are usually closer (although that is arguable in the case of CS/CSS), but I don't think anyone can find a real sweet spot.
     
  16. KDR_11k

    KDR_11k [make art]

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    Client side would be the client doing the hit calculation and just telling the server "yep, I hit that dude." What Valve is doing is having the client tell the server "I shoot in direction XYZ" and the server deciding "according to what you saw that was a hit." The UE3 games just go "that's not where the enemy is NOW."

    Client-side is exploitable, a hacked client could just tell the server "I hit dude X, dude Y and dude Z for good measure." With the other two a hacked client has to know the location of the enemy it's shooting at and cannot claim a hit when it's impossible to hit the target (e.g. when a wall is in the way, client-side would mean the server wouldn't even check that). You won't see client-side detection outside of C grade console games.

    Shooting an enemy in the face and missing while shots at thin air hit is extremely lame. Messes with the weapon balance in many games (e.g. in Section 8 Prejudice most people rely on slow explosives or lock-on because manually aiming hitscan weapons at the proper lead position takes too much time, explosives have a visible trail so you know where they are going and lock-on compensates for lag). I've seen cover based games turn into run-and-gun because moving makes you extremely hard to hit with any sort of accuracy so it was a better protection against bullets than actual cover no matter how stupid your moves would be in a zero lag environment.
     
  17. Plumb_Drumb

    Plumb_Drumb yumb

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    Okay, I see what you're saying.

    I just like the old school way of doing things.
     
  18. Wail of Suicide

    Wail of Suicide Member

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    Source Engine's hit detection is awful. Having to lead shots is much more preferable than having player movement lagged just so some guy can shoot you with "bullet gunzzz" without leading at all.
     
  19. StreetPreacher

    StreetPreacher New Member

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    This looks great, and I'm excited for it even though I'm move of a "Mechwarrior 2/3ish sim" kind of guy. Looks like they've put a lot of quality time and effort into it. They should release a demo level and then put the full game on Steam for $5-10 IMHO. Quality work like this deserves some compensation.
     
  20. Kyllian

    Kyllian if (Driver == Bot.Pawn); bGTFO=True;

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    Hasn't been that bad unless the ping gets high
    Of course the sheer speed people can move doesn't always help
     

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