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Trash the Desert Eagle !?!?

Discussion in 'New Version Suggestions' started by phatcat, Oct 5, 2001.

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[b][size=6]Should we keep the Desert Eagle?!?![/size][/b]

  1. [img]http://phatcat.animedominion.com/de-yes.jpg[/img]

    51 vote(s)
    56.7%
  2. [img]http://phatcat.animedominion.com/de-no.jpg[/img]

    39 vote(s)
    43.3%
  1. BrownyMan

    BrownyMan Poet, Gentleman, Infiltrator?

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    WellÉ

    Nobody ever listens to meÉ :rolleyes:
     
  2. RAZZ

    RAZZ aka FURY13RT

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    lol, I can live without a scope ;)
    I dont fancy those competition holdsters anyways.

    Ive never seen a scoped handgun in military use for that matter. but it IS an interesting thought.
     
  3. BrownCow

    BrownCow I Heart Gnat.

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    Because i'm the master of the desert eagle(don't believe me, try your luck) i'll say this:

    Whoever voted to remove the DE should be slapped upside the ****ing head! What the hell is your problem!? I didn't waste my time and read this whole post, i know it is a bunch of morons who DON'T EVEN USE THE GUN that want it removed. If you don't like it, DON'T USE IT! It is hardly a good weapon.

    I have 1 joy of playing inf and some retard forum people get the keen idea of taking that 1 joy away. If you have a higher post count then you do minutes in game you should NOT HAVE A SAY IN ANYTHING! The DE is by far the worst gun in inf. LEAVE IT ALONE! Use your girly 5-7 and m9 and leave the DE alone!


    *virtually bitchslaps the people who voted to remove the de*

    One of these days i'm gunna have to break some damn fingers!


    God damn...
     
  4. BrownyMan

    BrownyMan Poet, Gentleman, Infiltrator?

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    WellÉ

    I think Éeveryone here needs to calm down a bitÉand reassess the situation from a much calmer presecptive.

    The way I see it, the Desert Eagle isn't going to be dropped from Infiltration Because:

    ¥The reasons to take it out are trival at best
    ¥There have been countless threads like this before, all ending the same way
    ¥You have the option if you don't like it, NOT to use it
    ¥And the majority of the people want to keep it in

    I doubt it will be taken outÉbut that's just my opinion.
     
  5. Gholam

    Gholam Sergeant (Reserve), IDF

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    I see at least one, albeit very small, niche for high-powered highly accurate scoped handguns in military use: undercover operations requiring a medium range accurate weapon that can be concealed. Magnum Research Lone Eagle, a single shot handgun available for a very wide variety of calibers, including many rifle rounds, seems nearly perfect for the job.
     
  6. poaw

    poaw You used to sleep easy at night.

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    I decided to put my money where my mouth is and consult 3 sources.
    1) The maker of the site.
    2) A law enforcement officer I know.
    3) Second Chance Body Armor, Inc.

    First, the webmaster:
    To which he responded:
    Now he says that it was a simple typo. But because I like to make sure that there is little or no doubt of me being wrong I'll move on with my other sources.

    Me: Will .50AE penetrate Level III armor?
    Thomas: No.
    Me: Will the trauma kill someone wearing Level III armor?
    Thomas: No.
    Me: Are you absolutely sure?
    Thomas: I wouldn't want to find out *laughs*, but I'd stake my life on it.

    So the maker of the site says it's a typo, and a Law enforcement officer would stake his life on it not penetrating or causing enough blunt trauma to kill him. Well normally I would finish this up with an email from Second Chance saying that no .50AE round will penetrate Level III armor. But unfortunetely they haven't gotten back to me yet.
    But on their website they DO claim the ability of their Level IIIA armor to stop .50AE (or atleast a sample round). Which, because the NIJ standards not only cover penetration but also blunt trauma, that it is capable of stopping the bullet from killing you. I sincerely doubt that when they do get back to me that they're gonna contradict the information on their website. But time will tell.
     
  7. poaw

    poaw You used to sleep easy at night.

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    Erm, I use the DE. And I find it to be the better pistol of the three.
    But balance is not why I want it removed.
    I want it removed because it goes against Infiltration's theme of realism. I infact like the DE, I use it in every other game I play. In all those other games it fit in with the theme. In this case it simply doesn't. The DE's niche as a high power handgun with lower ammo capacity, lower rate of fire, and higher recoil will be filled when the Mk.23 MOD 0 SOCOM is put it. After that it's just a side ornament with no real function other than to just sit on people's HD and take up space on the loadout menu.
     
  8. The_Fur

    The_Fur Back in black

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    i wouldn't compare the .45 to the .357 performance wise, the .45 has a crap trajectory and penetration, the .357 has relatively flat trajectory and is known for it's penetration.
     
  9. poaw

    poaw You used to sleep easy at night.

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    Ahem

    I was comparing the handling of the weapon in comparsion to other weapons in the class. Not the rounds they fire. :)
     
  10. The_Fur

    The_Fur Back in black

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    the handling is rather unimportant, the rounds they fire are in this case. They don't fill the same niche so you can't phose out the DE because the SOCOM is coming in.
     
  11. poaw

    poaw You used to sleep easy at night.

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    5.7mm could substitute for it. It also has excellent penetration and a flatter trajectory.

    .45 would probably be comparable in terms of damage.

    Which leaves the DE kinda hanging, as a jack-of-all-trades, but a master of none.

    Edit: Heh, 25 minutes after posting this I realize that the .357 has more ft/lbs. of energy than even the +P .45.
     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2001
  12. shadowkil

    shadowkil New Member

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    Actually, I've heard second hand from a U.S. Marine Corps armorer that we've got a few in the armory. I will [edit]not[/edit] attempt to argue their practicallity, but the fact of the matter is that we own some. Now granted, I've not personally been into the armory to see for myself, have not spoken with the armorer in question, nor have I seen inventory records. The story goes like this - a friend of mine owns a DE in .44 Mag. His barrel is a little off spec (I don't recall exactly how); this problem causes the thing to fire fine if you manually load rounds into the chamber, but it will inevitably jam if you insert a magazine and try to let it self load. A friend of his with whom I am not aquainted is an armorer for the Marines. She offered to get the barrel replaced from IMI as deffective parts, citing that they have a few in the armory. I seriously doubt however, that they are ever used for combat. In fact, Jeff Cooper has said time and again that a handgun and a rifle are for two entirely different purposes. One is for attacking, and you know in advance what you are up against. The other is for defending, and you are pretty much always surprised in that case. If you were expecting an attack, you'd arm yourself with a bit more than a pistol, but a pistol is handy to have about at all times. I'd also like to add that in my opinion, the DE skin from TacOps does look a little better to my eye. However, that may not translate to how it looks in engine, I will have to check that out. Yes, please switch to the blued finish =)
     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2001
  13. spm1138

    spm1138 Irony Is

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    All of them...

    (Don't ask me why. They just have Wang is all.)

    (The TacOps skin looks cack in-engine, BTW.)
     
  14. RAZZ

    RAZZ aka FURY13RT

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    the answer to penetration is yes and no.

    .50 should pass through a level III-A vest.
    [​IMG]

    give or take that is....
    were assuming a direct strike square on the chest.

    but as they say, NO Armor is 100% Bullet-PROOF.
    that in mind, a level III should stop .50 ammunition from a DE.

    far as I understand, the difference between level III-A and level III is this:
    [​IMG]

    numbers wise, the fps of a .50 DE round and the protection fps of that vest, are too close (with the vest in the lead) for me to say DE will go "clean" through.
    any normal round hits the center of that composit plate, its supposed to be stopped.

    promax says the diff between their level III and IV is a thicker/broader plate again. good for strikes up to 2,850 fps.
    thats one round of .3006 Armor-Piercing.

    The penetration info came from nlectc tests and the promax site
    (bear in mind these are different tests from a different company)
     
  15. poaw

    poaw You used to sleep easy at night.

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    There is no, "yes and no" about it. You stated, ".50 AE is enough to go through class III bulletproof west". Nowhere in there did you say anything about, Level IIIA or even "some Level III vests".
    You stated flatly and wrongly that it would penetrate Level III vests. Before you did so you should have done what you did now and found out exactly what the deference was between Level III and IIIA were.

    And FYI, Second Chance makes the claim that their Level IIIA will stop .50AE

    Taken from http://www.secondchance.com/information/stoppingpower.htm
     
  16. RAZZ

    RAZZ aka FURY13RT

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    [​IMG]
    I think this is the lone eagle gholam mentioned.

    I cant find a muzzle velocity for it, but One could assume this can punch holes as well as some rifles.
    Their meant to be custom assembeld from .22 on up to .44 rifle rounds(?)

    pure hunting weapon, I dunno what the militarys interest could be.
    all I can guess is they do what I would do... keep 100 copies of every weapon known to man in storage somewhere.
    in the event you ever need one for training or a mission, you got a few on hand.
     
  17. RAZZ

    RAZZ aka FURY13RT

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    learn to read:
    I assumed you would understand that one make of level III, performs differently to another.

    This promax stuff qualifies as level 3

    If second-chance manufactutres a better type of body armor, its not my problem.
    according to the legalease: if your friends wearing a level 3 vest, and a bullet goes through, he cant sue the company for faulty manufacturing.
     
  18. Gholam

    Gholam Sergeant (Reserve), IDF

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    As I said, the niche I see for it is a concealable sniper weapon - IDF keeps a small stock of M14 bullpup conversions just for that purpose, though I forgot the name. It maintains the accuracy and killing power of a rifle, while sacrificing firepower for concealability. Of course army has no use for it, but special units that perform undercover operations occasionally require such a type of weapon - that's why I said the niche I see for it is very small.
     
  19. GenoOfTheCrayon

    GenoOfTheCrayon l33t 14 year old with an iron sight RC50

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    Hey browncow! LOL. Fancy meeting you here. And I still believe you should be burger meat :p
     
  20. ShakKen

    ShakKen Specops Spook

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    *whistles* got to respect any soft armor vest that will stop a GECO B.A.T.
     

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