Too many maps ?

[Sebu_NZ]

Can/Could there be such a thing as too many maps?

I believe so. I don't really know where to start..

Take Rogue Spear for example it only had 18 (count the same maps appear twice) 16 or so maps. It popularity (on the zone) is still strong, with 2000 folk playing now, considering this is a late-98 early-99 title that’s pretty impressive (and for testament is that its a fps). Now back in early 2000 was I pillar of the Asia-pacific community (oh yeah for real ) by the end of the time (I left really because of the shmucks coming) every player knew the maps, we knew where all the possible routes where. As a result it provided better game play.

You see Inf right now has 27 maps, with the new map pack coming with 2.87 there will be about 14 (as I have gathered), making the total number to 41 maps. Quite a number...too many IMO. This is official I'm talking about here, however I'm all for community mapping (with such cool mappers how could I not? Oh that doesn't include vee or DeRailer).

You see the problem here, IMO, is that players will just not know the maps well enough and not capitalise on some of the more unknown routes (if you will). I have played games where the players knew the map and where players didn't know the map, and I can tell you now that playing with players that know the map it just makes the game allot better, I don't really know how to describe this. People tactics on maps they know well get more refined (733t if you will).

There are other problems having a mod with such large amount of maps

1. The new player will have a problem will find all the maps, consequently
2. have a large download
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   Just take SF for example, I thought 50 maps was over-the-top ridiculous, players just never get the time to play them all, as a consequence don't know them very well.
   I think I'm about finished.
   
   
   Thoughts please

 

[yurch]

I think EVERY game should be played on an entirely new, never-seen-before map.

 

[Hilikus]

CS has same thing as Rogue Spear: a few maps that are played. The maps for CS (dust, nuke, assault, prodigy, militia, italy, siege,oilrig) are collectively referred to as "the maps" and almost everyone that plays them knows every nook and cranny of each map. Any new maps (with the exception of Italy) that were introduced were usually scrapped because no one liked them/played them (like de_fang and as_riverside). So keeping a low number of maps is good. Sorry if i got off-topic or rambled but im in a hurry.

 

[Sebu_NZ]

yurch: The, possible, problem here is that people don't know the map well and as a result the gameplay seems dry because they arn't doing.....blah ! I guess every map does start that way.

Hilikus: Thes the thing I'm talking about

 

[rgreene]

I'm guessing that once the servers start to populate some more (this is already happening, at any given time there are at least 7 or so populated servers... yay! then we'll start to see which maps people like most, and those will probably be run the most. I think that most all of the maps that the INF team are superb, and are my favorite to play. As time goes on certain 3rd party maps will be weened out, and others accepted into the fold. It'll all work itself out.

 

[Keganator]

Woah! Sebu, I'm sorry, but I think you're looking at the map situation all wrong.

Sure it's nice to play maps you are familliar with, and know all the 'strategies'. BUT: That's not what Infiltration (IMHO) is about! You're supposed to think about the map like it's a new map, every time. React and think and move carefully, not knowing what's around the corner, like IRL.

Granted, I played CS for a while. I got to know "the maps". I grew tired of them, but they were the only maps people would play! People knew them so well it was uncanny. I could almost count down the seconds before an enemy would run around a corner, or when I needed to turn to avoid a flashbang (speaking of flashbangs, that's the only thing I miss from CS ).

Then I started playing Infiltration more. Infiltration has their own set of 'the maps' (Peru, Installation, Kazahstan to name a few) but people look beyond those (thank god) and play on other maps. The SOB servers always have a few new ones, and any of the other servers do to. AFA 2, uh, I think the MUF superserver 2k does too.

Thanks to realmaps, all the new maps for a month (usually, anyway) have been put in a single mappack. That means once a month I leave my machine on overnight and Bamn! I have all the maps I need for the next month. Not many other mods have that going for them.

I think my longtime friend who played CS for ever (like since beta 2) said it best: "This is so much more fun when everyone doesn't know the map," during his first time playing Infiltration.

And Besides, the new maps are going to be CTF maps for the two new modes. That'll make things a lot more interesting than just standard TDM.

 

[The_Fur]

what yurch said. I had a hell of an easier time getting people to work together when the maps were new then when everybody knew the maps allready. When people know the maps it usually devolves into camp the chokepoint.

 

[poaw]

I like having a lot of new and unpredictable maps to play on. It keeps the gameplay lively.

Take de_dust for example. Every concievable scenario has happened on that map atleast 10 times for every person has played it. No matter what you do it's almost impossible to surprise the other team.

I remember playing de_rotterdam the first day it came out with CS 1.1 on a 32 player server. It was an amazing feeling not knowing where the other team would come from. And finding new routes and ways to stick it to the Ts was something that CS just doesn't have.

INF does have it, and I like it that way.

 

[Sparky_NZ]

Sorry Sebu, but I agree with poaw. New maps make it unpredictable and seeing as we want it to be a real-life mod, you don't have battles in the same place all the time, scenery may be similar but there will be different layouts. On the other hand, maps are good when they are slightly worn and you generally know the map but there are still some new possibilities and older maps can be fun depending on who's on the other team as different people play in quite different ways.

 

[yurch]

Speaking of which: here is pimpage for two ideas:
I have been an advocate of Random Map Spawns for a while.
Having the teams start on changing locations will stop the I-can-time-exactly-when-this-guy-will-round-the-corner-*bang*. Not to mention kill a good amount of nade spam. (those poor bastards having to cross atoll, anyone?)
And Silencer has a system in the works, with a whole new world of possibilities. He can have walls/boxes/m2hb's all appear(or not at all!) in different areas of the map.
So a hallway may be blocked off one game, or a team could have a bunker for defense... and it all might be different next load of the map. Go in development and bug him about it

 

[R-Force]

Personnaly i'm bored of most maps in INF. The popular ones are small and played out. Many good maps (even some official ones) rarely appear online, but the standard cqb maps just keep comming back ...

 

[Sebu_NZ]

Having thought about it abit more, perhaps ya'll right. Although always having the same map, meh.

On the other hand, maps are good when they are slightly worn and you generally know the map but there are still some new possibilities

This I would have to agree with, I mean soldiers should study the general battle area, Inf seems to be special forces, so that would mean more studin'.

Silencer is a genius if he can get that to work!!, Thats probably the best equilibrium between a tired and true map and a new map.

However, I still think that perhaps 41 is too much, people these days still have 56k, it doesn't take a 5th grade to realise that it will probably be a large download.

 

[Beppo]

just for info:
"randomized" maps with objects appear/disappear from round to round randomly (mappers do set them up or setup areas for such objects) is the first thing on the mapper-wish-list for our EAS gametype.
So... after 2.87 the whole EAS will start to develop further and I bet that this feature will be one of the main things for the mappers and players out there.
Just think about the possibilies ...

 

[DeadEyeNick]

Originally posted by Beppo
just for info:
"randomized" maps with objects appear/disappear from round to round randomly (mappers do set them up or setup areas for such objects) is the first thing on the mapper-wish-list for our EAS gametype.
So... after 2.87 the whole EAS will start to develop further and I bet that this feature will be one of the main things for the mappers and players out there.
Just think about the possibilies ...

W007!

 

[GeordieBoy]

"Randomized maps"... sounds cool . I think that unknown maps certainly make a better (and more realistic) playing environment. Think about it... in real ground combat, soldiers don't know the layout of the terrain ahead, be it buildings or fields. Sure, they may have trained for such terrain, or gained intelligence about the area, but they won't know the exact details. They have to rely on their skills on the ground, making immediate decisions based on what the come across. I think this is the way Inf should be heading, but without people churning out lots of throw-away maps, I can't think how this can be implemented.

 

[Sebu_NZ]

Wow that sounds awesome beppo !


I think Silencer should sue SS for stealing is idea

 

[Keganator]

Hmm...wasn't EAS supposed to be a 2.86 thing?

Can't wait Beppo. Can't wait.



...hmm...



Can't wait any longer...must have EAS NOW!!

 

[LieLestoSbrat]

I love playin new maps, u walk around trying to learn it and constatly checking every corner, box, door etc for tunnels passages and enemys and when u just walk into some bad guys you crap yourself (well I do anyway). You may die but u just laugh then u think Help mum im LOST!!! And Randomized maps its like going down to the sweet shop and having a flavour of chocolate out a day! I just can't wait for this to see light of day and appear in inf releases.

 

[wrdaniel]

What I dont like on new maps is that there are always some guys who know it. when for all player its a new map than ist ok, else not. i like maps every one knows, but with many possibilities to act.

 

[R-Force]

About maps, the up comming Soldier of Fortune 2 have random map generator. Basically the game put together a bunch of preset achitectures to form a new map every time...

Just imagine such a feature in inf ...