Tker's get there score reduced to zero?

[UTProphet]

You will only get accurate stats by watching a player's movements, not by staring at a chart. Still tho, we are way off topic. The point here is not getting rid of individual score. If TK-to-0 is still added, it will work perfectly with your state of thinking. You don't recruit 0's, so anyone TKing you wouldn't care to know anyway, would you?

 

[WizBiz]

I would hate to see a person with raw talent be overlooked because of an accidental tk. So to answer you question, yes, I would care to know how many TK's a person had vs how many kills he had. Ive said it before. I do not care about scores. I want stats.

 

[UTProphet]

Well that will encourage people to be more careful! That's the point isn't it? Not to ruin your day, to make people more alert that are in a Quake3 shoot 'em up style play here. If it's accidental, I've said it before, learn from your mistakes. I do the same.

 

[MoNDoGuY]

Stats also help determining who's good on what type of map. If we got a match on Island, we're gonna pick the guys who have high stats on sniping maps. If we're playing Siberia we're going to take the people who score well in CQB situations. If we're playing Kazakhstan, the opppostion doesn't have a chance

Face it guys, the only real way to get good teamplay on pubs is by having some form of communication other than Team Say, that's the real thing holding it back. If you can't communicate you don't know where your teammates are, and I know I'm not about to stop and type strategies while playing.

I'd like to see more stats revolved around the amount of time someone was alive, his % of accuaracy, and TK's.

 

[Camel_Toe(l)]

I think the most important stats to keep are Kills and tks. At that point a simple ratio can be built from those #s and could easily determine who needs to improve in their tactics.

Hit % would be nice, but only if it accounted for the type of gun used. Image, an AK user's hit % vs someone who uses a robar - no comparison can be made. That might be getting complicated...

I'm in complete agreement with mondo on all his points .

 

[{GD}Ghost]

Teamsay

No, you shouldn't be discussing strategies on the field. No assault team discusses strategies or tactics on the field. However, tactics and strategies are practices endlessly so that in the field, they are second nature. (example: everytime you dive into a pool, you don't have to discuss with anyone how to swim, you already know how and it is second nature to you. You just do it.)

Voice communication is definately a huge advantage over keybinds for obvious reasons, but if you pay attention and are aware of your surroundings in a map, key bindings can give you enough of an edge over people who aren't using them. I'm sure everyone knows that key phrases can be bound to one key. In teamsay, it displays your location.....most of the time. Knowing where your teammates are will give you and them a major advantage if you know what to do with the information. So no, I don't agree that you should throw all communication out the window on pubs just because you don't have a voice comm system running for all teammates to hear. If someone calls for backup, look to see where they are and get there ASAP. If you hear "Frag out", stop to see where the frag is going and don't continue to charge into a room that a teammate was trying to clear with a nade. Awareness will make you an effective player. If you are not running a voice communication program, pay attention to the teamsay communications. It will give you bits of useful intelligence.

One thing that I do is to call out my location regularly, on large maps so that if I go down, or take an enemy down, teammates will know the general location of the enemy and where they are attacking from.

 

[BrownCow]

Originally posted by UTProphet
Well that will encourage people to be more careful! That's the point isn't it? Not to ruin your day, to make people more alert that are in a Quake3 shoot 'em up style play here. If it's accidental, I've said it before, learn from your mistakes. I do the same.

tk's on public servers arn't a good way of determining who is gunna tk or not when playing as a team. 9 out of 10 times the tk isn't your fault. If you were playing as a team you wouldn't tk. I don't recall once when i was in a clan that any of us tk'd because we communicated. We used RW and never got in eachothers way. A inf team game and pub servers are a different type of game. Skill wise they don't relate imo.

Making your score 0 when you tk isn't going to make anyone more careful. That will just make it harder to tell who the better players are because they will have a score reduced to 0 because of their MORON TEAMMATES GETTING IN THEIR WAY. In a public server, you identify a good player by kills and kill alone. Anyone can get together for a few hours and learn to work together. That isn't difficult. You get 4 good players and just each player pick a spot to defend and when one dies you know where the enemy is and you move to ambush. That is as far as teamwork is usefull.

If you want teamwork join a freak'n clan. Leave the public servers alone, it is a waste of time. Go play on private servers if you like teamwork so much.

 

[RogueLeader]

9 out of 10 times the tk isn't your fault.

Sorry but that is completely wrong. 9 out fo 10 times it IS your fault. Most tk's are caused by negligence. Either you see someone in the distance and shoot before you know what team they are on, you get a little nervous and shoot as soon as someone comes around the corner without looking to see what team they are on, or firing a nade into an area you can't see without checking who is there, are by far the most common reason for team killing. Only on rare occasions is a team kill someone else's fault. I've only seen some idiot run in front of someone else's fire a couple of times.

 

[BrownCow]

Originally posted by RogueLeader

Sorry but that is completely wrong. 9 out fo 10 times it IS your fault. Most tk's are caused by negligence. Either you see someone in the distance and shoot before you know what team they are on, you get a little nervous and shoot as soon as someone comes around the corner without looking to see what team they are on, or firing a nade into an area you can't see without checking who is there, are by far the most common reason for team killing. Only on rare occasions is a team kill someone else's fault. I've only seen some idiot run in front of someone else's fire a couple of times.

If i'm aiming at an enemy and you walk in my way, you dead. I'll gun you down without even thinking. Wanna live? Stay outa the way of my bullets. If i have to shoot through you and that causes me to miss the enemy you better damn well apologize. Nothing pisses me off more then some dumb**** walking in front of me and causes me to either die or miss out on a kill because he is in my line of fire.

tk will always exist on public servers, you can't ever ever ever fix that. anyone in a clan ever tk someone in a clan match? I'd like to see that ratio.. like 1 tk in a clan match to 30 in a pub game. Why? Because it is a teamgame in a clan match, it is selective death match in a pub server.

And anyone who shoots at what they can't see, (nading areas they "think" might have an enemy) is just retarded. That just screams stupidity. Anyone who tk's in such a manor should be banned from that server immediatly. It is idoicy.

 

[Camel_Toe(l)]

Is it possible to not drudge up who fault it is when someone tks? This thread is well over 300 posts long, this issue in particular, has been beaten dead at least 3 times. We all know each other's stances and no one will change their mind, let's move on.

I'd like to see more comments on the importance of stats and communications. The debate going on b/w me, mondo, wiz, GD, and prophet was interesting and cordial.

 

[BrownCow]

Originally posted by Camel_Toe(l)
I'd like to see more comments on the importance of stats and communications. The debate going on b/w me, mondo, wiz, GD, and prophet was interesting and cordial.

Considering you won't ever find anything team related that does NOT keep stats and has mass communication. I can't believe anyone would be able to debate over that. It is impossible.

I didn't even think anyone was considering stats and communication not important. I am truly amazed.

If you want accurate stats then make the server keep track of all the stats you want (accuracy, what weapon used most ect ect) and then at the end of each match the server then sends the info it collected with each players ip and name to a database where it keeps a master list of everyone with their stats. It is a very simple thing to do. When i get my pc i intented to do that among a slew of other inf fixes/changes.

But the topic i was posting about is what the topic thread is all about. If you want to debate and endless useless debate about the importances of communication and stats then start a new thread

 

[MoNDoGuY]

Originally posted by Camel_Toe(l)
I'm in complete agreement with mondo on all his points .

You better if you wanna start in the INF War matches

I don't know if this was suggested but CS (yes that dreadful Mod) has a pretty good system to deal with TK's. You TK someone your dead next round from spawn, I know that gave me a lot of free time to think about what I've done.

 

[RogueLeader]

Stats would be good if there was a way to get a good stat system. But stats just replace the current score system. Think, for example, if the score system kept accuracy as a stat. Then no one will be willing to use suppression fire because they don't want to look bad.

 

[UTProphet]

Good point RogueLeader, but that's exactly the point I'm trying to make. Stats just cloud your vision. You can't tell how good someone is by looking at a digit or percentage. That's why you WATCH how someone is playing instead of pressing F1 every 10 seconds.

 

[BrownCow]

Originally posted by UTProphet
Good point RogueLeader, but that's exactly the point I'm trying to make. Stats just cloud your vision. You can't tell how good someone is by looking at a digit or percentage. That's why you WATCH how someone is playing instead of pressing F1 every 10 seconds.

Seems to work in every sport out there..

Numbers don't lie.

You think small. You can easily devise a way to keep track of a "supression" score. I thought of a way right off the top of my head.

Of course only a small amount of people are ever going to use any idea you may have to it's fullest capabilities. ie, only a small group of people would NOT supress an area because of accuracy. The bulk of the players will just try to "win" just like they all do now with nades, prone, leaning and nay other "bug" they can find. What the hell do you expect?

It has stood the test of time, nearly all people play games to win and they will do whatever they have to. You can't change it, just live with it. YOu want a cool stat system, just make it, you and your friends will use it right and love it. Can't please everyone.

 

[Camel_Toe(l)]

Prophet, you are correct that watching players is good barometer of how good they are. But, stats is also a very good barometer and often helps point out where and how good a player is. Accuracy, as I stated in my earlier post, is not the most important stat, but for someone trying to be a good sniper, then accuracy is extremely important. Would accuracy figure into the "score" of a player? No, kills minus tks would be the score. But, if you're trying to put a team together and find out who does best in what scenario, then stats would definately be beneficial.

In addition, stats would help you figure out if a player is even worth assessing on a personal level. Why waste your time with a player who dies more than he lives or gets kills? Why assess a player who has a tendency to not pay attention and tks several times during a round? Stats would let us know so much more about how a person plays and they would help point out weaknesses. Stats are a general barometer of performance.

 

[UTProphet]

And I understand that. But I simply can't respect anyone (not talking about you or Wiz, just in general) that would look at stats and not even try to walk along side the player for a few rounds or so. Numbers can't tell you how often a player uses the best path based on where the enemy is located. They can't tell you a lot of things that are really important to a team.

Besides this though, I do get what your saying about the sniping thing and accuracy would be a good measure in that area, theres just so many loopholes in a system like this that anyone can look good even if they suck. Again, I see how numbers may help in certain situations, but nothing is better than the naked eye. Stats should be a backup method in every position.

 

[BrownCow]

Originally posted by UTProphet
And I understand that. But I simply can't respect anyone (not talking about you or Wiz, just in general) that would look at stats and not even try to walk along side the player for a few rounds or so. Numbers can't tell you how often a player uses the best path based on where the enemy is located. They can't tell you a lot of things that are really important to a team.

Oh, i wouldn't go by stats alone. But i personally would weigh the stats well. If a player gets the job done, i am not concerned with how, well, to a point. I don't care for some grenade lobing freak.. but if they have bad stats i am not gunna look at them. Stats are a nice guide, but not the bible.

 

[Camel_Toe(l)]

I see how numbers may help in certain situations, but nothing is better than the naked eye.

No disagreement with that statement Prophet. There is no better assessment of a player than watching them. Unfortunately, me nor many other people are willing to record demorecs every round to watch all the players they want.

Stats should not be soley be used assess a players ability, but can be used as a barometer of their strengths/weaknesses and to reinforce your opinion of them.

 

[UTProphet]

agreed.