Yeah, I've done all of that theoretical thinking stuff before. (not the porn library though ->
)This is why I dislike devout Christians...
- Thread starter Keiichi
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Yeah, I've done all of that theoretical thinking stuff before. (not the porn library though ->
)There are some problems, tho. This assumes that there is only one linear, progressive future. The Universe need not be constructed in such a way. In fact, it is both correct <em>and</em> incorrect to say that you will go to bed at 11 tonigbt. But futures exist simultaneously. At least, this is one theory that makes the behaviour of the Universe describable at the quantum level. Consider the following experiment that is physically reproducable in a lab:
Take a large sheet of matter. Some material that will stop electrons. Now, let there be a very narrow pair of slits in this sheet of matter. Behind this sheet, let there be a screen on which we can observe photons striking.
When you fire a beam of light at this pair of slits, the mathematics of wave mechanics tell us that we will observe an interferance pattern on the screen behind the sheet. The light spreads out from each slit in waves, high points coincide with low points, high points coincide with high points, and you get a periodic nullifying effect (no light) alternating with a periodic amplifying effects (strong light).
Now repeating this exact experiment, only this time instead of firing a beam of light we will fire a <em>single</em> photon. Now, our understanding of the macro Universe and Newtonian mechanics tell us that this single photon will pass through one of the slits and light up a single spot on the screen behind the sheet.
This doesn't happen.
Instead, you get another interferance pattern. It is as if another photon, from God knows where, has mystically appeard to interfere with the single photon we fired. So what gives? Which slit is the photon we fired passing through, and what the heck is going on in that other slit to cause interferance?
This is were things get interesting.
As it turns out, if you attempt to determine which slit the photon passes through by placing sensing instruments on one of the openings or covering an opening to isolate what goes on in the other, the interferance pattern simply vanishes. For either opening. Cover the one, the photon appears to be passing through the other. Cover the other, and now the photon is passing through the first.
It is as if the act of observation is determining reality. Before observation, all possibilities existed simultaneously, and you have an interferance pattern. After observation, the possibilities have been collapsed into but one, and reality is thusly dictated.
This experiment is not limited to photons. It is repeatable with definite maas particles such as electrons.
This experiment also suggests that the universe as we observe it may be only one possibility of many, many (perhaps infinite) possibilities which exist simultaneously. And what of two different observations of the same event? Does this imply that two completely different realities coexist simultaneously? Both observations, although different, are correct?
Extending this to something relevant to this thread, what does it now mean to say that God (or anything for that matter) knows what you will do in the future? It suggests that God (others) must be fully aware of <em>all</em> the infinite possibilities that is the future. Conjecturing, even if God observes these possibilities, you have not. So, for you, your future is still an infinite set of possibilites.
On a side note, experiments in the quantum realm have revealed even freakier natures of the Universe. One nature, for example, is that information in future influences the present. A certain experiment at the quantum level has all of its data recorded by a computer. In one group, the computer retains the data. The results are consistent with each other. In another group, the computer recieves the data, but disposes of it immediately. Its results are found to be different! In effect, the information which will exist in the future (the information that is saved) has seemingly affected the outcome of the event which occurs in the present. Bizzare.
I wonder, Quantum mechanics is the big mystery of today. But, once we further understanding of this branch of science, will we stumble upon another branch just as mind boggling? Will there be other mysteries beyond that? Just how many ways are there to describe our Universe?
Okay, now my head hurts...time for some sleep.
This thread reminds me of my Ned Flanders uncle. Craps on about how the entire earth was flooded, how it's only 6000 years old etc.
cough*cough*BULLSHIT
cough*cough*BULLSHIT
flanders: now arent you glad we dont believe in innoculation kids?
*shivering pale children* yess...ddad...daddy.....
*shivering pale children* yess...ddad...daddy.....
"What did I do wrong God? I did everything the Bible said, even the stuff that contradicts the other stuff!!!"
-Ned Flanders
Just had to share this
-Ned Flanders
Just had to share this
Originally posted by The_Fur
"What did I do wrong God? I did everything the Bible said, even the stuff that contradicts the other stuff!!!"
-Ned Flanders
Just had to share this
Heh wasn't that in the hurricane episode?
*Sigh*
Christians are really blind. I can accept that sufficient knowledge gaps exist to allow the idea of a higher power.
What I cant understand is how christians have never taken a step back from their religion and had a look around. Look at all the civilisations that have had no contact, and each one has built up a religion too. People who believe in the christian god (Yahweh) are actually in a minority on this planet.
Buddishm, Daoism and Hinduism have little or nothing in common with Christianity, Judaism and Islam.
We know why Christians, (and other religions too) believe in god and an afterlife. The whole thing (life) is pretty pointless, and pretty frightening without the godmyth to sooth their fears. Therefore, christianity is certainly understandable.
What we must do however, is ensure that while people are free to believe their respective religious fairy stories, religion is kept entirely separate from politics. Having millions of people who believe in god can be - and has always been - open to abuse. I cant tell you how frightening it is, as an atheist, to see George W. Bush using god and christianity as a rallying cry for war, even in 2001.
Christians are really blind. I can accept that sufficient knowledge gaps exist to allow the idea of a higher power.
What I cant understand is how christians have never taken a step back from their religion and had a look around. Look at all the civilisations that have had no contact, and each one has built up a religion too. People who believe in the christian god (Yahweh) are actually in a minority on this planet.
Buddishm, Daoism and Hinduism have little or nothing in common with Christianity, Judaism and Islam.
We know why Christians, (and other religions too) believe in god and an afterlife. The whole thing (life) is pretty pointless, and pretty frightening without the godmyth to sooth their fears. Therefore, christianity is certainly understandable.
What we must do however, is ensure that while people are free to believe their respective religious fairy stories, religion is kept entirely separate from politics. Having millions of people who believe in god can be - and has always been - open to abuse. I cant tell you how frightening it is, as an atheist, to see George W. Bush using god and christianity as a rallying cry for war, even in 2001.
The Big Bang theory ties in with the theory of evolution, the gradual progression and adaptation to changing circumstances.
Eventually, the right chemicals (Guanine, Thymene, Phosphate, couple of others i can't remember at the moment) get together, and begin to react and form DNA. DNA, and it's ability to replicate itself, creates living organisms. "It's evolution, baby!" - Pearl Jam
As for the planets moving towards the center of the milky way, that doesn't disprove anything. A big enoug entity in the center of the galaxy can create such a gravitational pull. Much like our sun does with us.
Just try to act a little more courteous to the people who believe in the truth
Define "truth". You don't know the truth. You've assumed the truth, but you don't know it for sure. No one does. Truth is a relative term. To me, the truth is the that there's a higher power. Nothing more nothing less. (I like to think that the higer power is Bog
)Lets assume for a moment, that someone/something DID create life, the universe and everything else. Do you honestly believe that the creator would be so close minded as to say "this is my plan, this is what you'll do, it is so." HELL NO!
If christian mythology is to be believe, I'd call the pope "Satan". "Love thy neighbour", says God. "KILL KILL KILL!" says the Pope. The representative of God on Earth is telling us we must kill our fellow man (I refer to instances such as the cursades) in order to be holy. Well, you're so holy you just did the opposite of everything you were told to do. Sounds like something the Dark Prince would get a kick out of, if you ask me.
Pred, Thrash, all you other god-guys, just tkae a step back, consider the possibility that the bible's wrong, and think outside the square you live in. What if God doesn't exist? What if he does, but he hates you? Take a look at the design of the bible. It isn't just a random collection of stories, it's a document that re-enforces itself from any possible attack, and thats all it does. It tells you to stop thinking about the possibilities I just mentioned, because that's "temptation", it tells you that we're all inbred.
Worst of all though, is the church. The most illegitimate government ever to hold power anywhere on Earth at any time in history. The third reich was more respectable than they are. At least Hitler didn't shroud what he was saying with a "divine message".
The church wants your money and your mind, it's that simple. The book of Revelations isn't the end of the world, it's the end of the church. The man who's brash of mouth is the man that awakens eveyrone to the possibility of life without the church. The fire and the destruction is the burning of the churches. The big evil lookin' demon, The Anti-Christ, is the one who'll be respsonsible for this spiritual uprising.
Besides all that, can you honestly give your heart and soul to an organisation that has done the exact opposite of it's teachings for over 1500 years?
My father, a chemist who has since moved up out of the lab and now works in upper management at a local Dupont experimental station, once shared with me something he found to be interesting when it comes to DNA and basic life processes. He came about the information in his research into DNA as part of Dupont's vested interest in developing technologies in the fields of polymer, molecular, and genetic computing.
Basically, he found that a definite pattern exists across <em>all</em> forms of life. Within the genetic code of DNA, the portions which encode the various <em>interdependant</em> protein structures necessary for a cell to live, grow, and divide have are identically the same across all lifeforms on Earth. This is inclusive of the simple single celled protozoa which have existed since life was first formed on this planet. So, what does this mean? Well, this means that all of the necessary protein functions for life to exist were formed simultaneously when life first appeared on Earth and have remain unchanged for hundreds of millions of years despite the evolutionary process. This system is so precise and well ordered that no improvements have been made on it trough all this time. There is also zero record of there being any alternate systems of protien functions which would facilitate the necessary life functions. No evolutionary path exists on this planet to show how these processes managed to come together. It would be like sitting down and in one shot busting out all of Windows' XPs fundamental system calls in full working order without even having a compiler to start with.
In short, it suggests one of three things:
A) Something, call it a higher power or entity, created all of the necessary DNA protein maps for basic life on Earth hundreds of millions of years ago. It was so good, that its still used, unchanged, today.
B) This stuff just mystically appeared out of nothing due to luck which is absolutely so insane, it shouldn't even be possible. There would be a better chance of having the vibrations of my atoms aligning themselves in such a way and for a long enough time that my as<b></b>s would fall right through my chair and hit the floor.
C) Life did not originate on Earth. An evolutionary record of these basic life functions exists, but not here. Perhaps life was ferried from this record to here on a big piece of space rock. This transplant theory isn't totally unfeasable...
Draw your own conclusions...
Basically, he found that a definite pattern exists across <em>all</em> forms of life. Within the genetic code of DNA, the portions which encode the various <em>interdependant</em> protein structures necessary for a cell to live, grow, and divide have are identically the same across all lifeforms on Earth. This is inclusive of the simple single celled protozoa which have existed since life was first formed on this planet. So, what does this mean? Well, this means that all of the necessary protein functions for life to exist were formed simultaneously when life first appeared on Earth and have remain unchanged for hundreds of millions of years despite the evolutionary process. This system is so precise and well ordered that no improvements have been made on it trough all this time. There is also zero record of there being any alternate systems of protien functions which would facilitate the necessary life functions. No evolutionary path exists on this planet to show how these processes managed to come together. It would be like sitting down and in one shot busting out all of Windows' XPs fundamental system calls in full working order without even having a compiler to start with.
In short, it suggests one of three things:
A) Something, call it a higher power or entity, created all of the necessary DNA protein maps for basic life on Earth hundreds of millions of years ago. It was so good, that its still used, unchanged, today.
B) This stuff just mystically appeared out of nothing due to luck which is absolutely so insane, it shouldn't even be possible. There would be a better chance of having the vibrations of my atoms aligning themselves in such a way and for a long enough time that my as<b></b>s would fall right through my chair and hit the floor.
C) Life did not originate on Earth. An evolutionary record of these basic life functions exists, but not here. Perhaps life was ferried from this record to here on a big piece of space rock. This transplant theory isn't totally unfeasable...
Draw your own conclusions...
Heh...found this old post I did nearly two years ago in response to a thread started by MegaMan. It is not entirely applied to this conversation, but it does contain my basic tentent towards life. At the least, it lays our my general system of existing, and builds upon what I said a few posts ago:
------------
"Megaman, and everyone else who cares about this...
Yes, the Pickle is indeed a active member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. (The Mormons)
I go every Sunday, I teach a group of 12 year olds, I am an assistant scout master to these same kids on Wednesday nights. I have three kids who go every week, and my wife goes, and teaches a Sunday school class herself. I pay tithing, don't drink or smoke, was a virgin till the day I got married, and try to live many other Christian lifestyle attributes the best I can each day. There are days I fail miserably, but that is not my point here.
My point is, I am completely comfortable with my choice, and my personal belief system. I adhere to a religion that teaches my children, among other things, to treat others with openness and respect, to love your family, to take care of your body, to work hard, to pursue an education, to give to others, to share what you have, and to pray. I am really thankful for these kinds of principles, and I am happy to include them as part of my families life.
I could care less about any criticisms, name calling, or verbal attack levied against me or what I believe in. I am completely content in that way. When I was in Mississippi, I lived with bigotry towards my affiliation every single day, for years! I have Baptist friends that live in Utah, that feel the same thing directed towards them.
It all comes down to who YOU are. What others say about you does not matter, and what you say about them does not matter. What matters is that you are true to yourself, and to those you obligate yourselves to. (Family, children, spouse, friends, etc.) I can't speak for the other Mormons living in Utah or Idaho, or the 12 million others out there, but a core belief in our religion is that of not judging others, or discriminating against others with beliefs that may differ from our own. As for me, I choose to follow that line of thinking. Everyone else can do what they want, because in the end, it just won't matter what a guy down the street did in his life that I disagree with, it will be all about what kind of man, father, husband, friend, and person I tried to be.
Anyway, just wanted to give my 2 cents on the issue."
------------
"Megaman, and everyone else who cares about this...
Yes, the Pickle is indeed a active member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. (The Mormons)
I go every Sunday, I teach a group of 12 year olds, I am an assistant scout master to these same kids on Wednesday nights. I have three kids who go every week, and my wife goes, and teaches a Sunday school class herself. I pay tithing, don't drink or smoke, was a virgin till the day I got married, and try to live many other Christian lifestyle attributes the best I can each day. There are days I fail miserably, but that is not my point here.
My point is, I am completely comfortable with my choice, and my personal belief system. I adhere to a religion that teaches my children, among other things, to treat others with openness and respect, to love your family, to take care of your body, to work hard, to pursue an education, to give to others, to share what you have, and to pray. I am really thankful for these kinds of principles, and I am happy to include them as part of my families life.
I could care less about any criticisms, name calling, or verbal attack levied against me or what I believe in. I am completely content in that way. When I was in Mississippi, I lived with bigotry towards my affiliation every single day, for years! I have Baptist friends that live in Utah, that feel the same thing directed towards them.
It all comes down to who YOU are. What others say about you does not matter, and what you say about them does not matter. What matters is that you are true to yourself, and to those you obligate yourselves to. (Family, children, spouse, friends, etc.) I can't speak for the other Mormons living in Utah or Idaho, or the 12 million others out there, but a core belief in our religion is that of not judging others, or discriminating against others with beliefs that may differ from our own. As for me, I choose to follow that line of thinking. Everyone else can do what they want, because in the end, it just won't matter what a guy down the street did in his life that I disagree with, it will be all about what kind of man, father, husband, friend, and person I tried to be.
Anyway, just wanted to give my 2 cents on the issue."
![/\l!eN[RIP]](/data/avatars/s/14/14494.jpg?1424422855){kind=avatar}
Good threat peeps...had to do a lot of catching up though, having worked all day...
Still one thing I dont understand Kheiichi. How can you scientificly say that a chance of 1/1000000000000000000000000000whatsoever
is still I viable chance. It is not and thus should be abandoned
Still one thing I dont understand Kheiichi. How can you scientificly say that a chance of 1/1000000000000000000000000000whatsoever
is still I viable chance. It is not and thus should be abandoned
Perhaps an ancient alien race seeded our primitive planet with the building blocks of life in some grand science experiment, but died out before the experiment could be completed or terminated? Or maybe we're the product of a failed terraforming project? After all, one of the first steps in terraforming a planet is to transplant micro-organisms onto it's surface. Or perhaps it didn't fail? Perhaps the aliens breath carbondioxide, which is what we exhale every time we take a breath? Anything's possible.
And how can you logically say, if I had an octillion-sided dice, and I rolled it ever millisecond of every second of every minute of every hour of every day of every week of every month of every year for several billion years, that it would never land on 1?
Again, I'm not trying to disprove the existence of a god. I simply find it curious why you so readily accept the idea that a consious deity somehow manifested himself or has always been here, but find it so difficult to acknowledge the equally plausable idea that the unconscious universe and life itself somehow manifested itself or has always been here. I'll be the first to admit that we don't know exactly how life formed on this planet. All we can do is make educated guesses based on what few clues we have available to us. But, at least we're attempting to discover the truth.
-Keiichi
Science believes that all life on Earth resulted from some random molecules coming together and being struck by lightning (yes i know that is highly simplified). Can you take some molecules and send a current through them and create life? NO! Look at even the simplest lifeform, the cell. Even a cell is far to complex to be random. Some almightly thing had to have started it all. Call it God call it whatever you want. Life is to complex to have been started without some kind of help from an almighty being.
**Edit jsut read the post above
"Perhaps an ancient alien race seeded our primitive planet with the building blocks of life in some grand science experiment"
Where did these highly complicated organisms come? Somewhere along the line there has to be some kind of divine intervention that started life. Sorry.
**Edit jsut read the post above
"Perhaps an ancient alien race seeded our primitive planet with the building blocks of life in some grand science experiment"
Where did these highly complicated organisms come? Somewhere along the line there has to be some kind of divine intervention that started life. Sorry.
Just throwing ideas out, what if there was no beginning and there is no end. Everywhere in natural life and science is the concept of infinity, scale, fractals. For all we know this "huge" universe is just a pebble in a much larger sea. For example, you can keep zooming further and further into a particle and never reach an end. We like to define limits to make us feel better, but what if there simply is no limits, no beginning, no end, it's just a matter of relationships and perspective?