This has never, ever happened to me, ever!

[Mucus]

It's been a while since I carried a weapon on patrol. Back in the early 80's the standard infantry weapon of the British Army was the L1A1. It's not an especially short weapon.

But...

I never, ever got it stuck in wall, or in a window sill, ever! It never, ever stopped me from turning around, ever! It never, ever went "clink, clank" as I went up stairs, ever! I was never, ever unable to point it out of a window or door way, ever!

And...

Even wearing a large backpack, I have never, ever had any difficultly, whatsoever, walking through a door. Never! Not even once!

So...

Why does this keep happening in Inf? Well, weapons collision of course. While the idea is well intentioned, the implementation (I think) is lacking. I think that weapons collision should be made far less restrictive.

Anyone with me?

Doc

 

[UN17]

Yes and no. I think weapons should "pull in" when hipped whenever they collide with geometry. That way you can walk around without getting stuck on walls and stairs. When aimed, I think weapon collision is great. So you can't stick your gun through a wall and shoot at people, or have it sitting 12 inched under a window sill and snipe people.

Then again, you can "pull in" manually in INF. Just aim your gun up when going up stairs. Or aim right when turning left at a doorway. No collision, no worries.

 

[Taque]

Though it may seem ridiculous at times, I think the intention of weapon collision is not to simulate what would happen if you were to bang your rifle against the wall. Instead, I think that it's intended to give you a restriction based on size of your weapon ... just so that you can't 'clip' your rifle into the wall from the 3rd person point of view.

I, for one, think it's okay as I never really run into that problem in INF. Anyway, you can 'push' past the weapon collision point if you really need to.

 

[Poi_159]

Meh i dont see any problems with it, once u get used to it. I used my trusty M249 in CQB maps and i dont have any weapon collision. I aim down when turning throught tight corners, aim up when going up stairs, aim down when going down stairs, etc...

 

[yurch]

Yes and no. I think weapons should "pull in" when hipped whenever they collide with geometry.

They do, don't they?

 

[Lasersailor184]

I thought they did Yurch. But anyway, it soon becomes second nature. I.E. Give a toddler a big stick and watch him try to get through a small doorway. Hillarity will ensue. However, give that big stick to a 15 year old and tell him to get through that same doorway.

I hardly ever hit the wall anymore.

 

[Rostam]

It rarely bothers me, but for some reason when I do have issues with it gets me killed.

 

[Mucus]

It rarely bothers me, but for some reason when I do have issues with it gets me killed.

That's what it's like for me. 99% of the time, it's not really an issue. But when it does prevent you from making what would be a perfectly reasonable shot in RL it drives me nuts.

For example; say you are at an upstairs window and want to shoot someone below you. In RL, if your target dipped below your line of sight, you can lean forward a little (and thanks to laws of trigonometry) increase your field of view quite a bit, more so the farther your target is from you. In Inf, you are limited to the field of view you would have if you were about a 10in/25cm from the window. In Inf, you can't bend at the waist.

Also, try proning in a corner sometime. It's like you've suddenly become paraplegic.

I'm not for getting rid of weapons collision (although I wouldn't miss it if it went). I would like the restriction to be eased.

TTR didn't have weapons collision and I don't recall anyone complaining about not having their weapon stick to walls.

Doc

 

[Crowze]

I would imagine in real life soldiers would automatically adjust themselves to get the weapon where they want to. However, the Inf solder isn't half as adjustable, and to do so would either be messy to the point of being impossible, or would have discrepances between the 1st person's viewpoint and their actual location, leading to invisible sniper syndrome.

I know it can be annoying, but it's one of the things you adjust to over time. Another part of the problem is the collision lengths, which in some cases are far too long (M1S90). This, however, is fixable, and again it's something I'm working on.

True you can push past the limit, but only if you don't have 'collision training' selected (or something like it). Try it, then think how lucky you are that isn't the standard .

 

[Lt.]

I do have issues with it gets me killed.

I would doubt if a sniper, caught hangin' out of a window, could pull his PSG1 back into the room and battle off an entry team with MP5's blazing.

you would have to hip it, step back, and re-shoulder the weapon.
all steps that one would take, both IRL and in-game.



oh, and you *can* lean out of windows to significantly increase your field of vision.
(edit: BuF attachments failed at intarweb, so here's a link)

 

[dive]

I agree that you should never have collision issues when hipped. That's just silly. Since, atleast to me, hipped is "unaimed" mode used when you're trying to move around as quickly and unimpaired as possible.

But when aimed your weapon is exactly where you point it. If you need to get through a door, you'd lower you weapon in real life. In infiltration, you can lower you weapon. My problem lies in the how slow the transition from hipped to aimed is.

While we're dreaming, weapons with a collapsable or folding stock would be useful if you could fold the stock in to carry it closer to you but aimed. This would increase recoil a small bit, but would be useful when in tight spaces so as to allow you less chance of smacking you weapons on things.

 

[Crowze]

Let's be clear on this. There is no weapon collision when hipped, apart from the player drawing the weapon back in first person view. There is no obstruction to movement or turning.

Stocks... sounds like a good idea for collapsible stocks, but it's just not done with folding stocks. At least, I'd imagine not, since it'd be extremely uncomfortable to the shoulder.

 

[Lt.]

a folded stock would be pretty painful,
you could fire it like this tho.

 

[Derelan]

Would you find it more difficult to carry an extra-long Robar RC50 up a narrow circular stairway than a short PDW? Of course you would, it would probably slow you down as you tried to navigate it. How is that implemented in INF? Well, you've figured that out.

 

[Turin_Turambar]

I only had real issues with this in online play with a weapon...


M1.

 

[flamingknives]

It's parapets that get me. I can see over it, I'm certainly getting hit over it, why can't I hit the person I'm aiming at who's shooting back at me? Granted there's a bit of differenct between the sightline and the bullet trajectory, but where this is about an inch and you're a decent distance above the wall? Grrr.

 

[Beppo]

as always... you get used to it. In INF you have to control your movement including the position of your weapon yourself in most situations. So, after learning it the hard way you will know how long your weapon is for example and if you will fit thru a doorway sideways holding it aimed or not.
In addition it prevents you from sticking your weapon thru walls and stuff like that (you can push it further if needed in the standard mode) and so giving your enemies not a 'Hello shoot at me' call all the time. It isn't perfect due to the engine limitations but it gives you a pretty realistic feel of the weapon.
In RL you cannot turn around with your weapon aimed while holding it out of a window and then trying to turn 'thru' the wall with it and you would not be able to compensate this by pushing your shoulder back a bit. You would need to either lower it, turn the other way around or go up or down with it a bit to make it fit passing the wall if possible. Or you would simply step back and turn then or while doing so.

Turn on the weapon collision 'training' mode and you will notice how large your weapon really is. If you master this mode, then this will already be second nature for you and the standard mode will be very easy to handle for you.


@flamingknives...
it has nothing to do with the bullet trajectory...
That one person is able to fire at another person and this second person is not able to do so happens in RL too of course. To use a window or wall example... the guy running around on the street below the window or behind the wall can fire an inch above the lower window frame or wall edge easily. The guy in the room behind the window or behind the wall would be able to do the same if the weapon is behind the window frame or wall and not colliding with it too. If ie the rifle 'rests' on the frame or on the wall, then it simply cannot go as close to the frames or walls edge anymore as if it would not collide. So I really do not see what is wrong in this situation.

[edit]

Also, try proning in a corner sometime. It's like you've suddenly become paraplegic.

while prone your view shifts forward to the actual location of your head while lying prone. While going prone the codes check if you would fit down there and try to move you around if possible so that you can lie down. If you do not fit, then you cannot go into the prone position.
Now tell me why do you feel like being paraplegic??

 

[Bushwack]

*knows Beppo probably already knows this*

Beppo, if you prone out with your feet in the corner on most maps indoor or outdoor, you cant move, your stuck, the collision prevents you from moving, this is what Meplat is talking about. The only way to move again is to un-prone and adjust your position, often resulting in your being discovered and shot, this is especially frustrating when your trying to prone out behind cover or near a wall for cover.
its not ALL corners, just a LOT of them, even terrain does it sometimes, i dont think this is a problem so much with INF, but with the engine INF is on at the moment.

 

[keihaswarrior]

*knows Beppo probably already knows this*

Beppo, if you prone out with your feet in the corner on most maps indoor or outdoor, you cant move, your stuck, the collision prevents you from moving, this is what Meplat is talking about. The only way to move again is to un-prone and adjust your position, often resulting in your being discovered and shot, this is especially frustrating when your trying to prone out behind cover or near a wall for cover.
its not ALL corners, just a LOT of them, even terrain does it sometimes, i dont think this is a problem so much with INF, but with the engine INF is on at the moment.

I agree with bushwack, it is more a problem of the engine.

I like the restrictions of prone in INF. In other realism games (cough* TTR), proning makes you a little turret that rotates on its stomach with the legs passing through walls with the hitbox only registering hits to the torso.... bleh.

 

[Beppo]

well it is a prob of the engine to only have cylinder collision and so 'forcing' us to use another self-made system for proning.
In INF your player model is made out of three collision cylinders while prone and we use our own collision checks then. This means that if your legs do collide with something, then you cannot rotate further into this direction. So, proning in a corner will most times push you a bit forward to 'fit' into the place and then you will only be able to rotate a little bit without your feet colliding with one of the walls. Just move an inch forward and you will be able to rotate enough.
Now don't talk about you being able to rotate around in corners in RL... with your legs and feet stretched you cannot, period. Sure you can pull your legs closer to your body or whatever but this is something you cannot do with this engine. So, simply do not try to prone directly within a corner or adjust your position then to let you rotate a bit. But don't blame INF for checking your bodies collision as properly as it gets on this engine while prone, just cause you are 'used' to prone into walls and stuff like this in other games.