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The community killed UT3

Discussion in 'Unreal Tournament 3' started by dub, Apr 7, 2008.

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  1. dub

    dub

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    Orly?
    Or maybe it wasn't...

    At the start people tried to shift the blame from UT3/Epic to the reviews and reviewers and chose them as their target for the cause of UT3's seemingly less than stellar popularity.
    This is funny and absurd for two reasons. For one, when you actually check UT3's meta score it's actually all the more entertaining, as it's average score is pretty good. (and it's completely irrelevant how well other UT games scored comparatively)

    Secondly bad reviews have never really stopped games being sold. The best example I found recently was the first 50 cent game with an average review score of 40!
    40!!! It sold over 1 million copies with half the average review score of UT3.
    You could keep going through review scores such as Quake 3's to see that a review can have a little bit of an influence but that at the end of the day, it won't matter and if people want to buy a game they will regardless of how bad a score is. If the game is good - it will speak for itself and people with buy it and play it.
    Reviews have never been overly accurate and yeah, often it seems like some reviewers barely play the game before they make their comments, but this has always been the case and all other reviewed games face the exact same problem. It's not changed in years, so why has it supposedly affected UT3 more than it has all the other games that received a half assed review?
    http://www.metacritic.com/games/platforms/pc/quake3teamarena?q=quake 3

    Another great example: Kane & Lynch.
    This game received the most epic bad review ever, leading to the firing of a Gamespot employee who gave this game the scorching review. The subsequent rage about a supposed conspiracy involving the games makers having a hand in the firing because of the bad review led to people "boycotting" the said games company and it's games (including various stunts such as the game developers forums being flooded with hate posts - to the point where the forums had to be shut down briefly).
    Most sites and magazines similarly rated Kane and Lynch down with it's average score not surpassing 66. (the highest score I ever saw for it was 82 in some magazine, compared to UT 3's multiple review scores in the 90's!)
    http://www.metacritic.com/search/process?sort=relevance&termType=all&ts=kane+and+lynch&ty=3&x=0&y=0
    Between November 2007 and January 2008 Kane and Lynch had sold over a million copies.

    Let's also not forget that the majority of people who buy games don't actually read game reviews in the first place.

    So maybe because these people looking for the blame elsewhere than with Epic, decided to shift the blame to the actual community. (which amusingly includes themselves)

    So I can only imagine how these people think that it's the community that killed the game, but I shall take a guess.
    By talking it down - saying that it's ****. (?)

    Orly? That works? Should have done that earlier with WoW then :p
    Again, if you look at the past you can see that talking things down on forums doesn't actually do much, or even anything.

    First off, your average gamer doesn't read forums. But even for those who do... whens the last time you read a bunch of peoples opinions on forums and made your mind up about a game?

    Secondly, there are enough instances of communities ripping the **** out of a product and it doing well.

    The first example I can think of is the TAM game mode. Google it and no matter what forum you will get to, you will read endless comments on how n00b it is, how ****, how simple etc. If it wasn't for the crash I could link to dozens of posts right on this forum all engulfed in flames with the slightest mention of those three letters in that order.
    Fact of the matter is that it didn't stop people playing the game mode one bit. (and why would it? - those who bitch, bitch - and the rest don't care and play, right?) There are probably more people playing TAM now than there are people playing UT3.
    It didn't matter how many people ripped on TAM, because people enjoyed it and played regardless.
    I played TAM - and I can only see it from my own point of view. People bitched about it bla bla... and what? I liked it and played it. Doesn't matter what other people thought of it.

    Another good example is Steam. Hate sites popping up left and right and even the most hardened Half-Life veterans had a hard time accepting it. I saw petitions :)lol:) amass with people saying HL2 on Steam = us not not buying. I could quite ungracefully link to a couple of threads here, in OT with half the board calling it the devils tool with people swearing they'd never use it. Longtime community players "leaving" any valve software, because of Steam. Is Steam failing? :)

    Another really good example I can think of, off the top of my head is Battlefield 2.
    It was talked down on all the various BF 1942 forums for pretty much exactly the same reasons that UT3 faced.
    An engine which was too intensive for most machines, a radical change in gameplay and style, a "n00bified game system", a shed load of bugs on release, petitions to change stuff, petitions to boycott the game and what have you... the parallels are virtually endless.
    BF2 is still one of the most popular online games on the PC and sold very well too.

    People will always bitch and you will always hear more people bitching than people giving praise that is always the way it will be (CoD 4 maybe being the exception to the rule :p )
    I've read numerous posts saying that people have never seen a community so vocal about what they don't like in a certain game... those people haven't followed other games very much then, because it's happened to an equal or greater extent from games ranging from the WoW expansion, Call of Duty, Rainbow Six, Halo 3, Battlefield 2, 2142 and BC, HL2 and CS:S all the way to the Sims!

    So how is it that people bitching doesn't affect other titles sales and popularity but it does with UT3?
    How come good review scores for UT3 still mean it wasn't reviewed well enough but other games getting over 20% less scores on average and getting just as random reviews affects other games less?
    How come other games are handed even worse reviews than UT3 ever saw, yet these other games still do well for themselves and are less affected by the reviews?
    How come the communities of other games bitch just as hard within their own community they used to support, but it affects their games less?

    I have written out why I don't think that either bad games reviews (which UT3 never really received) or people talking the game down have much effect on the popularity of the game and the last couple of questions really are just that - questions.

    - Having said all that I think it's not really apt to say UT3 has failed, quite yet - but I used that as a title because I keep reading it all over this forum. I think though, that it's even less fitting to point any fingers at the community if you think it did.
    I'm not implying to blame Epic or so either, just that I can't for the life of me see how it's our fault.

    tl;dr I know, I know... so:
    In summary:
    No matter how bad or good reviews of a game are and no matter how much people online will say it's good or bad - if a game is what people want to play they will buy and play it. You can't blame the communities attitude towards a game or reviewers scores all that much.
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2008
  2. Trynant

    Trynant Manic Brawler

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    By means of execution I've concluded

    UT3 needs moar adspace!

    It seems that your entire post follows up to the point that UT3 needs (or needed) better marketing. Or rather that this is the only plausible alternative since you shot down any of the other choices.
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2008
  3. hilo_

    hilo_ New Member

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  4. hal

    hal Dictator Staff Member

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    Isn't this more or less like that other thread?
     
  5. WarTourist

    WarTourist New Member

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    You guys are like the "Rainman" of pointless forum topics :).
     
  6. Trynant

    Trynant Manic Brawler

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    I don't know. Yeeah.

    :p
     
  7. hal

    hal Dictator Staff Member

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    Yeah, UT3 sucks. Of course, Jeapordy comes on in 12 minutes. No ads, bad menu, no ads, bad menu. Yeah.
     
  8. D3@thChild

    D3@thChild Nanoblack Ftw!

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    lol, i was away from this game for a bit and already think its improving alot thanks to the community.

    Stop the whining yay! \o/
     
  9. dub

    dub

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    Yeah a little, but I was hoping that the other thread would stay on topic and discuss solutions to up the popularity so if I had slammed this comment into that thread it would have been derailed for sure.
    This thread is more about why people keep saying it's the communities fault and the other thread is about solutions to up the popularity. T'would be cool if that aspect was actually discussed in that thread.
    Yeah, cause I totally say UT3 sucks in my post.
    Please point out some whining in this thread between post 1 and 9. :)
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2008
  10. JohnDoe641

    JohnDoe641 Killer Fools Pro Staff Member

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    It basically is.

    What's the point of this one besides it being redundant?
     
  11. Trynant

    Trynant Manic Brawler

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    Walmart sucks.
     
  12. FuLLBLeeD

    FuLLBLeeD fart

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    You ever maybe stop to think people are complaining for PERFECTLY GOOD REASONS? The thread concerning what needs to be done to save UT is far from pointless, then again, I'm sure UT is pointless to Epic at this point anyway.

    GL with GoW2. You've lost my business.
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2008
  13. fuegerstef

    fuegerstef New Member

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    I followed UT3's development for over 3 years. It looked really promising. In the 3rd year I testplayed it 3 months before it came out and by that moment I knew that it wouldn't do too well. The community had nothing to do with it.

    But I bought it in spite of that the first day it came out; even after the bad demo. And I tried to like it. But it didn't work. IMHO it is an above average game but not outstanding and the other franchised out at the same time are too strong.
     
  14. dub

    dub

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    Seriously? If you say so...
    Right that's it. I'm boycotting Walmart.

    How is this thread redundant? I see no other threads about this aspect on the forum Please feel free link me to any I've missed though.
     
  15. D3@thChild

    D3@thChild Nanoblack Ftw!

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    The start of discutions like this is pointless, whinnig is a word i learned here :eek:.

    Gonna start skinning again, yay free time \o/
     
  16. dub

    dub

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    For one it's not a discussion about if UT3 is good or not, or why it did or didn't fail, it's a discussion about why people are trying to blame outside influences for the games supposed popularity problem. Would have probably helped to read the post, I guess.
    It's a thread basically asking how people come to the conclusion that it's our fault that "UT 3 is failing".

    Further probably be helpful that once you learn a word, you then learn it's meaning before using it :)
     
  17. D3@thChild

    D3@thChild Nanoblack Ftw!

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    Man i read everything and its still pointless what are you retard jeez i was j/k.

    im outta here.:mad:
     
  18. UnrealGrrl

    UnrealGrrl Enemy flag carrier is Her!

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    alotta good stuff there and i agree with 90something % of it...

    the one thing is that unfortunately, ALOT of ppl, no matter how intelligent they sound in forums still have that good ole 'herd mentality' and go along with the squeakiest wheels... so the effect this has is not on the 'average joe' who doesnt read forums or reviews anyway, but on the so called "fans" of the game who might have otherwise been among a products strongest supporters... its sad but true, lotsa human types have a problem thinking for themselves and just go along with the herd. (or the herd that whines the loudest)

    and the community didnt "kill" UT3, most ppl know that. even Epic agrees on alot of what hurt UT3 and hopefully they have plans to do something about it cause it is a stellar game.
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2008
  19. LooseCannon

    LooseCannon ... but it's not pink ... ooh yes it is!

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    I don't think the community killed UT3, because:
    1. It's not dead, yet, well, maybe...
    2. The game still has some very frustrating 'features' that piss me of every time, even though I love the game; those issues are Epics?!
     
  20. hal

    hal Dictator Staff Member

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    Yeah, totally. Yeah.

    /me guesses dub either has not seen Rainman or has no sense of humour!
     
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