*That* Flight delayed, again

[Ulukai]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/3367971.stm

I have the frame of mind that says never give in to terrorists (also, don't talk to strangers), but if I had a booking on that flight, I'd be feeling more than slightly uneasy.

 

[QUALTHWAR]

It’s too bad they can’t use sleeping gas. You make the cockpit door very strong and well sealed and have a button for the pilot to push for sleeping gas. The gas would be odorless and could not be detected; people would just get real sleepy all of a sudden and pass out. The pilot could make an emergency landing and the terrorists sorted out. Of course, there would be all sorts of lawsuits from that for various reasons.

 

[Rukee]

WTF would they not want sky marchals on board their flights??

 

[Cactus]

hell with today's airplanes, you don't even need the pilots across. it's all autopilot anyway. they still have pilots because of those damn unions

 

[JTRipper]

Because sky marshalls carry those nasty, scary, awful guns and everyone knows that guns just jump up and start indiscriminately killing people on a regular basis. It's a better idea to put box cutters in every seat-back tray and leave cabin doors ajar so that people don't have to sneak cooter bombs on board.

 

[Balton]

Because sky marshalls carry those nasty, scary, awful guns and everyone knows that guns just jump up and start indiscriminately killing people on a regular basis. It's a better idea to put box cutters in every seat-back tray and leave cabin doors ajar so that people don't have to sneak cooter bombs on board.

lol, what a creative way to smuggle bombs...

 

[Rukee]

"A senior Yard source told the Daily Mirror: "Smuggling a bomb on to a plane by this method is one of our worst nightmares."

*security worker*
I`m sorry maam, I need to check all female passangers with this probing tool here with the flashlight on it....come-on...Let`s go!

 

[Bot_40]

Well it doesn't take a genius to figure out what happens if someone shoots a gun on a plane and misses by 1 cm and it punches a nice hole in the side of the plane. Guns and planes don't mix, I damn well wouldn't get on a plane knowing there was someone carrying a gun.

 

[JTRipper]

C4 and planes are a worse combination, but not quite as bad as suicidal pilots and planes. If someone jumped up with a bomb in one hand and a button in the other yelling "Allah ackbar", do you really think it would be worse to have someone miss by 1 cm than to have no one on hand to take the shot? Maybe - just maybe - that's why sky marshalls pack low velocity ammo, huh? I'll take my chances with a hole in the hull, thanks. A depressurizing cabin is a safer place to be than a piece of wreckage plummeting towards earth, IMO.

 

[QUALTHWAR]

I’m glad I don’t have to fly. It’s bad enough fighting terrorism on the ground. I think a marshal or two would be a good addition as a last resort measure. I’d feel safer with one or two onboard.

 

[diddlysquat]

The main argument against armed sky marshals is that, guns can be taken away from them, thus giving the terrorists another more powerful weapon than any they could easily sneak onboard. All the plotters would have to do is spot the marshal, get in position and rush him, most of the time, with 4 or 5 people, a couple may die, but the person with the gun is going to go down too, thus leaving it in the hands of surviving bad guys. Since we are dealing with fanatics, who plan on dying anyway, getting shot trying to take the gun from a skymarshal is no big thing.

 

[JTRipper]

Hmm. Good thing they didn't go with bright orange "SKY MARSHAL" hats then. The would-be hijackers will have to randomly assault passengers until either they come across the real sky marshal (if any), or one pulls the gun.

It's also a good thing that law enforcement has compiled enough statistics to recognize such a thing as the "kill zone" - the radius around an officer where pulling their gun can be turned on them. Oh, but wait, law enforcement is stupid, and certainly wouldn't apply that training to people who will carry one in confined environs...

 

[Skorch]

Well it doesn't take a genius to figure out what happens if someone shoots a gun on a plane and misses by 1 cm and it punches a nice hole in the side of the plane. Guns and planes don't mix, I damn well wouldn't get on a plane knowing there was someone carrying a gun.

Correct, it dosn't take a genius to realize a small hole in the cabin would result, and the cabin would start slowly losing pressure until someone stuffed a sock in it...pressurized cabins don't explode like a ballloon being stuck with a pin.
Pilots will carry Glazer saftey slugs (or the equivalent) anyway, so there would be little penetration but they'll still have the ability to damage soft tissue and impart shock affect to the ******* with the case-cutter. I hope they shoot the bastards in the nutz...

 

[JTRipper]

No, I've thought it over, and I was wrong. If a flight is about to become an air terror statistic, it's really better if there's no one to intervene. If all the passengers just hold hands and sing Kum Ba Yah, I'm sure they can talk them out of it. Now, let's all sing "Michael Row The Boat Ashore"...

 

[diddlysquat]

As people can be trained in "killzones" and the like, they can also be trained to observe and spot behavior that could indicate a person may be a sky marshal, and thus act accordingly.
In an enclosed space like a airplane, the concept of killzone kind of becomes moot, no matter what happens, whether they pull the gun or not, the officer can't run away easily, and with enough attackers, he is going down, and they will get the gun.

If the hijackers are stupid, or stick to the 'scripts' that officers train for, then sure everything is peachy. But the odds that they will always play by those rules is very poor.
Of course the scenario I hypothesize is not likely, and would require a set of circumstances that may not occur. Still, it is something to be considered and concerned about.

 

[JTRipper]

Like I said, it's better not to have anyone there. The passengers can handle it, no problem.

 

[Skorch]

Actually, a large percentage of officers in the U.S. are shot with their own service revolvers, but very few citizens defending themselves are shot with their own guns...

This is probably because the officer, with his uniform and displaying his firearm, is broadcasting he has a gun and you may be able to grab it before he can stop you, while an armed citizen usually does not display it until he has need of it and by the time the assailant is aware of the firearm, it is already in use and the assailant's head explodes...

An armed citizen is far more likely to shoot a criminal than a police officer, because the officer will have to undergo a far more extensive investigation after protecting himself, and has a ton of paperwork to fill out if he kills some thug, as well.

 

[JTRipper]

If I had a hammer, I would hammer in the morning
I'd hammer in the evening, all over this land!
I'd hammer out the danger, hammer out a warning
I'd hammer 'bout the love between
my brothers and my sisters
all, all over this land...

Feel that hammerin' love? What terrorist could withstand that? I can even hear that love hammerin' away.

Oh... wait, I think that's just the neighbors again. F*ckin' newlyweds...

 

[Zarkazm]

C4 and planes are a worse combination, but not quite as bad as suicidal pilots and planes.

You are so right. We should make sure there's at least one of the three on board at any given time. :tup:

 

[JTRipper]

1) C4
2) Plane
3) Suicidal pilot

Yes. Let's try to make it #2. Just in case though, let's make sure that every flight attendant can hum "Puff the Magic Dragon"