Suggestion: Infiltration update to 2.91

[geogob]

So it seems that since the release of 2.9 a few minor things are giving a lot of problems to 3rd party developers and users. The two that I have in mind right now is the fixed ammo type limits and the loadout limit. There might be other things I don't have in mind just now.

I have no idea if an update of INF fixing those things was considered, but I'm officially suggesting it. There might be other few littles bugs you guys found out at SS you might wish to fix. a minor update to 2.91 for the core files might enable you to do just that.

Any thoughs?

 

[- Lich -]

On the one hand good suggestion. Fixed ammo type is a problem. Weapon priorities come into my mind, this list could be way longer. Dunnow if it can be fixed in a easy way. I do think not, cause else someone would have done it, but maybe I am lucky.

On the other hand: Case they are working on 'something' else, where there are already coders needed: continiue that project.

 

[geogob]

Yes I understand your against point Lich. Somehow I agree... but It might be a while since we get any other kind of major update (other engine), so in the meantime it could be nice to have an improved 2.9 which is both user and developper friendly. This way this community will continue to evolve while a new version gets put together.

 

[cracwhore]

I suggested this a few months ago and Beppo punched me in the balls.

 

[geogob]

Yeah... but I do Kung Fu and my Chi Kung is getting starting to get interesting, so he can hit all he wants. Maybe I'll even hit back

No seriously, I don't mind opening this subject to discussion, even if it gets flames at me. I seriously think that any kind of major update is further than a year away and until then it would be nice to have little things fixed to help developer and players.

A good exemple of problem with the ammo type limit being so low is the m16a4. Duke wanted to put in his own grenade, the incendiary. But since yurch grenade types already limits the numbeer of ammo type, it does not work with the M16A4 and leads to the use of not so nice hacks relating to grenade types. I've seen many people asking why the yurchian nades do not work with the m16a4 and many other are sorry not to be able to do so (including myself).

Weapon priorities is also a plague. I'm sure something can be do about that.

Loadout limits also lead to some nasty things. At least don't make loadout disapear and put a warning message when a user want to create a loadout past the limit. Now there is nothing warning users about the limit and no over-limit protection. Thus loadout simply dissapear and you see twice the last loadout in the list. This is not a very good UI practice. If the limit could be put higher (at least twice) that would be awsome. Using sub-catergories to browse loadouts would also be an improvement for a 2.91 (e.g. name a sub category and when you go into the loadout selection menu in QA, you'd see like ASSAULT, SNIPER, etc. instead of all loadout listed).

Another thing that can be considered needing to be fixed is the fact that all weapon-quick action association are lost as soon as you move loadouts around. The Q/A associations should be moved along with the loadouts or even included as part of the loadouts. Also, in a minor release the Q/A improvement from the bonus pack could be cleanly imported in the Core files.

 

[(SDS)benmcl]

geo I do agree that there needs to be some minor update to cover the topics brought up. We will have this version for some time and these issues ned to be addressed.

 

[Vega-don]

tell that to the server admins

 

[geogob]

tell that to the server admins

Que c'est que tu veux que je leurs dise? Qu'il faut une nouvelle version? Il le sevent problement encore mieux que qui n'importe qui d'autre!

 

[cracwhore]

 

[AlmostAlive]

I think I shared my thoughts on this elsewhere, but here's my take on it. Sure, Time and effort can be devoted to developing, fixing, testing, fixing, testing again, do another round of fixing. And testing again. Question is, how much time and effort do we want the team to to put into it? A lot of people here has said that no software is bug free, which is true. Fixes will, without a doubt, create new issues which needs fixing, which, again, needs testing and fixing and testing and....you get the picture.

Sentrystudios doesn't have unlimited recourses. Beppo is just one guy who does this in whatever spare time he can find. The same goes for everyone. Mappers, teamleaders, testers and modellers. Everyone. If we were to go in full force to get the issues fixed, everything else will be put on hold for the duration. A month? Six months? A year? How long would it make sense to put development of the next engine Infiltration on ice? Because, in the end, that's what it boils down to.

No, I'm not trying to stir things up or flame anyone. I'm just giving you the cold facts. Had we had 50 coders at our disposal at any given time, sure. We DO however have Beppo, half man, half machine, but he is after all just one guy and there is a limit to what one guy can accomplish. Even if he stays up until 5 in the morning, sleeps for 3 hours, goes to work, comes home at 6 in the afternoon and once again works continously on 2.9 throughout the night, like he did several times during the 2.9 development.

Knowing Beppo, he will probably continue to make mutators for kicks, but if someone asked me if I would commit myself to yet another 2.9 beta breaking period, the answer would be a resounding "No". The reason for that is that I believe it's time for the team to move on. You can't keep on doing the same thing over and over again. And since noone is getting anything out of this in terms of a paycheck, noone can be forced to do anything they don't want to. Harsh, but true. So, in the end, if anything is going to get fixed, it will be through small mutators, made by the brilliant community that we have been blessed with (and I mean that). Personally, for various reasons, I don't think I have what it takes to start on a new project for the good old UT99 engine.

Okay, I admit it. It's damn late and per usual I'm doing my rambling posts when I should be in bed rather than posting on a forum. Feel free to ignore me.

 

[(SDS)benmcl]

Almost I do agree with you. I rather have them working on the next version but doing some work now on 2.9 may very well help SS in the long run. I think the best solution is to ask the people working on mods, Crowze, mod team etc what the biggest issues are for them to expand and keep Infiltation fresh until the next version. Not every nitpicky issue needs to be address just those that are causing some problems.

Now I am not going to suggest these changes are easy since if they were they would have been addressed by now so obviously they are not. Is it possible for one of the community coders to look at the issues with direction from Beppo.

I would just like to see a situation where SS can concentrate on the next version while the community modders work on 2.9 without the state issues.

 

[geogob]

Almost, I understand your point of view. That why my opinion still is that what needs to be fixed are issues, like ammo type limit, that are giving problems to developper. All the rest is not that important and can be fixed with work arounds done by 3rd party. What I suggest is that all developpers round up issues that are giving critical problems to future developpements for INF 2.9. From these issues, the most critical ones or easiest to fix could be chosen.

Really the idea is to make a minimal update, but that could make a huge difference for the next 2 years in the INF community.

This is a very ressourcefull community. If you can't get around with it, maybe a secondary team could even look into that while SS concentrates its energy towards something else.

Here is what I suggest...

- First, list issues critical to future developpements (for both mappers and mutator developpers).
- Second, go through the list, check out which are quick fix (if any) and give priorities to them.
- Identify possible working work arounds (if any).

Once this is done, we could start discussing if really an update is needed and who would work on it and how. At this point I am simply putting the idea on the table and it's too soon to invoke any kind of logistical reason about not doing this. THe conclusion could very well that this is not needed and the discussion will end there.

 

[Cleeus[JgKdo]]

An INFiltration community betatesting projekt combined with community development.... *dreaming*

There are some coders out here who would be glad to do something for INF.

 

[geogob]

An INFiltration community betatesting projekt combined with community development.... *dreaming*

There are some coders out here who would be glad to do something for INF.

I see that we are dreaming in the same dirrection.

Really, If developement is over of the UT99 engine, I think this would be the best solution to keep the game and the community alive and kicking. It will also lower the pressure on SS to release a new version for a new engine. If people are expecting updates for 2.9, less will be thinking about a new version from SS.

We could get a group of developpers working on the code and build up a beta testing team. A project like this one could be taken under the wing of an existing developping group, like the modteam, by a new group or by a single person (which I doupt is a good idea).

But first things first... As I said we must before we do / decide anything check the need of such a process. So I'm asking to all developpers and mappers to post issue they have with INF blocking their developpements. Most major user-related issues we are already aware off. In a week or so we can make a round up of the issue and see where we are going with this.

 

[mat69]

That's the best idea I've heard so far concerning 2.91.
SS please consider it, I think many of the mutator makers would be thankfull to put their hand on the code, to make changes in the menues - like a mutator menu where you can change the mutator's settings - fix bugs, add new gametypes and so on.
I know it would be hard to give your own "baby" away but I think SS should still have much control. They should decide what the default settings are and they should allow several changes changing the principe of INF. And there should only be ONE INF.

 

[geogob]

Yes, of course SS would have to approve any changes, additions, modifications done into a new minor release.

 

[Harper [Jgkdo]]

Things I would like changed/added:
1. Fixed Accessed nones when using EAS goals with non eas gamemodes (most important the keypads) (see EASGoals.uc)
2. replicating bDisableFiring might fix demorec bug
3. NOT hardcode the use of Infiltration.ini for the InfilWeapons mutator. There are people out there (at least me) who uses more than one ini to set up different things (use config(system) instead)
4. add a new "round has started" event as soon as a new round starts
5. make sure that ModifyPlayer is called when adding bots with addbots (addbot() function in GameInfo and child classes)

When I can think of anything else, I will let you know
BTW, I would participate in such an endeavour as coding 2.91 (but only if SS is ok with it and there are enough coders)

 

[{GD}Odie3]

Well, I would look at it like the Working to Keep Unreal Tournament Alive! (UTPG.org) Group and I hope SS would see this idea in the same way.

We have some great coders out there and this could really keep Inf pumping.

 

[Cleeus[JgKdo]]

We could put out a RC which could be evaluated by SS. If they think it is fine, then they can release it or change some things. Also they could decide over what features get implemented or not.

Things i want fixed/changed:

- expand the MapList to use up to 256 maps
- integrate bonus weapons and voicepacks
- better interface for mutators to modify the quick-menu
- rewrite some of the game menus for better performance (preload map and weaponslist on startup time).
- integrate InfSecureValidate

 

[Crowze]

Mutator configuration GUI menu addition. Maplist is preloaded IIRC, but the weapon/loadout list isn't and IMO should be.