suggestion about limiting the number of 40mm grenades

[[L]the_Countess]

i ment it
if somebody shots @ you with bullets you whould IRL run for covver

now ppl drop to the floor (because of the pronebug's that is your best options for survival)
the only sure fire way to hit a proner now is with a 40mm
so i stay with my point that the reason for the 40mm being used as a antiprone weapon is the ppl that prone themselfs

making the 40mm use schrapnell will probably make spamming eazyers (just shot into a room and kill everybody inside becaus of the boncing schrapnell

when they eliminate insta prone and fix the hitbox it will become eazyer to kill a proner with bullets so you wont want to use a nade for it
problem soloved

schrapnell is far more powerfull then just a blast
they didnt make the frag grande a handgrande for nothing and not a launchable

 

[The_Fur]

They made it not launchable beacuse it is too heavy which severely limits the range, + it would be undwieldy.

In WWII German soldiers had a "Schiesbecher" basically a can mounted on top of their rifle which they could use to fire normal grenades at the enemy.

Still offensive grenades in general are not as lethal as bullets, their penetration is very limited and their explosive blast is not that powerfull. The explosive power of the 40mm grenade in inf is a bit too much and the minimum range is too short. That is not justified because of another bug.

By that definition the invisibility bug would be validated because IRL running with a scope is impossible or something.

 

[[L]the_Countess]

The explosive power of the 40mm grenade in inf is a bit too much

ummm you missed that AGAIN?

i have told you 2 times now
as had that guy from the army that use's the m203 all the time
the blast radius of the 40mm nades are MUCH larger then they are in inf
IRL the kill radius is about 5 meter
that means a circul of 10 meter across
its barly 4 in inf

 

[The_Fur]

www.armystudyguide.com

What is the casualty radius of a M203 40 mm round?
5 meters

FM 23-31 40-MM GRENADE LAUNCHER, M203

2) High-explosive (HE) round. This round has an olive drab aluminum skirt with a steel projectile attached, gold markings, and a yellow ogive. It arms between 14 and 27 meters, and it produces a ground burst that causes casualties within a 5-meter radius (Figure 3-9).

This is from fragmentiation, not explosion like it is in Inf. That means Get down and you are most likely to be fine. While in inf you simply get blown up.

 

[yurch]

the shrapnel system isint all that accurate as it is. (big glowing chunks that bounce around like mad?)
Shrapnel is: small chunks of metal zipping around at high speed, like really crude bullets.
"the only sure fire way to hit a proner now is with a 40mm"
argh, that comparison makes me sick. the only sure fire to hit anyone nowadays is with a 40mm. dont try to justify it like that.

My suggestion: make both the nade weapons rely offa realistic shrapnel. You could try to make small, fast(but slows down quickly) projectiles shoot randomly from the point of the explosion. There could either be a lot of projectiles, but this might create lag, or a fewer amount that hurts more. Its the team's call. either way, make it extremly dangerous at a 5m radius.
This is why explosions up in the air are so dangerous. Frags come zipping down through the air, and theres no way to hide from it.

 

[[L]the_Countess]

a 5 meter radius means a 10 meter diamitar so fur you agrea with me

making the nades that real in INF whould be disasterus

hell you could clear whole buildings @ a time

@yurch : i made the comperasun like that because it true
you dont want to spend your nade on normal persons that are not proned
bullets are usualy quicker
but with the insta-proning and the hitbox problem now
its usualy best to use a 40mm if you want to live and tell the tale

i can hit proners from the hip @ 4 meters away but i still usualy just nade the instaproners if they are farther away
my aim is not the problem
and not the reason i use 40mm for the proners

 

[yurch]

nades would be worse, not better than they are now.
M67 shrapnel has been known to go as far as 50m (not sure of the number) - but the chances of getting hit at that distance are slim.
But it IS meant to clear close-in areas. If you throw one in that double doored place in sicily, i would be surprised if anyone came out alive. That is, if they weren't hiding behind the furniture.

I know that your prone comparison is true, and that is what is wrong in the first place.

It shouldn't be.

 

[The_Fur]

making the nades that real in INF whould be disasterus

HAHAHAHAHAHA
uhm right. hat is inf about again? realism maybe?
And as Yurch allready pointed out it is the way grenades work. They rely on shrapnell and can kill up to quite some range when lucky. However armor and simple cover quickly negate their effects. You can b in the same room of a offensive frag when it goes off hiding behind a chair or a sturdy door for instance and the shrapnell would be unable to hurt you IRL (not so for most defensive grenades though) It simply puts more emphasis on proper use of cover.

 

[Hub]

M203

I want more 40mm grenades- maybe a max of 12? I say this because of my definition of what I think realistic play would be. I would like to try and utilize the game as realistically as the system currently allows, but mainly because of what it currently doesn't allow makes me want more grenades.

My example would be trying to emulate urban combat where you are having to move up and clear a street the hard way-house by house. If I had a US Army infantry squad, I would have nine men, two fireteams of four each plus the squad leader. As mentioned by others, each fireteam has one grenadier, and the squad would have at least one M249 SAW. One tactic would be to split the squad into three groups of three: a support team, and two assault teams. The support team would have at least one of the grenadiers, and at least one M249, and it's mission would be to supply suppressive fire in support of the two assault groups, as they bound/overwatch each other onto the objective. The grenadier would be right in there, lobbing grenades through doors and windows, and for this sort of thing, the current limit is too low. This is magnified because of the things you don't have to work with that could be available to assist an assault team:

- No M249 for suppressive fires (yet)
- You can't mousehole. It is better to have a tank or satchel make you your own entrance, if possible, otherwise you will be moving against a structure that is almost guaranteed to have a defended, existing entrance.
- No indirect fire support from mortars or any other arty.
- No support from direct fire weapons larger than
what you have in the game now.
- No smoke or rubble to help conceal movement
- No support from other teams, like engineers, flanking infantry teams, etc.

There are other things, too, that are either not implemented, or are outside the scope of the game.
For this kind of action then, you are left with the 40mm GL, and the M67, as your primary means of accomplishing this sort of thing, IF you are trying to push the realism aspect of the game. This is the rub right here, (and sorry it took so long to get here)- people are playing the mod with many differing views on what realism is, and some don't care if it is real or not. This is perfectly OK- but I say up the grenade limit, and when people get together to play, everybody decides beforehand whether it's going to be all, some, or none. There has to be room for everyone out there...and for those who will take advantage of this by cheating, well, the cheating party will have to be dealt with by his/her peers the way peers usually handle these situations. I guess I would rather see the design team expend their efforts in other directions, besides putting limiters into the game in order to balance it out.
Real warfare isn't balanced- sometimes you get the bear, and sometimes he gets you. I know there are people who claim that realistic games would "suck ass" and be no fun to play, but for me, there are other ways of measuring a win besides the final bodycount.

If I had four players on my team, I would have only one grenadier, with 10-12 rounds, and I would be comfortable with that. Plainly, others would not be, but we can either get together and find some common ground, or politely go our own ways and find someone to play who are more like-minded. There is room for all...

 

[yurch]

doesn't red faction allow you to "mousehole"? lets port to there!
*whack* ow! im not..*whack* ow! click-BLAM!.. thump
There, i defended myself this time.

I think the maps make it too hard to sneak around/fight as a team... No fog, no smoke, and unusually open maze-type maps. With the maze-map layout, it makes it hardest for teamwork-its too hard to know whats going on. The hallways are set up so that there is no way to really hide in some of them - if someone turns the corner, you are usually screwed.
all this results in everyone trying to be a "nade man"
My suggestion for best map ever?
A cross between dockside and bunkers, with some chasm thrown in.

 

[Hub]

Yurch:

I understand what you mean. The maps tend to be problematic because of their open nature- having to bow to polycounts and all, but many urbanized areas tend to be a maze, especially in the fringe areas, with slums, and shanty towns, or disorganized strip growth...buildings can be mazes too, given enough complexity and size- think of the fighting in Stalingrad, at the Red October factory, or the chemical plant. So being maze-like can be a realistic feature in itself. There can be large open areas in urban environments, too- parks, vacant lots, school yards, parking lots. These would all be situations a modern infantryman would have to deal with. Other examples from a more recent past would be Hue, Quang Tri, and Panama City.

I believe it is possible to play Inf successfully as a team- the members would have to train hard, but I think it is an achievable goal.
Having a voice program would be almost mandatory for commo. The fireteam must stay close together (by that I mean within visual of each other), in order to lend support to each other, but also to avoid fratricide. If you are blessed with enough players to have say, two fireteams, then you may be able to separate and work towards two different objectives, but you would need to assign areas of responsibility, and the leaders would need good situational awareness, in order to prevent friendly fire incidents. Establishing things like rally points, in case of getting lost or separated from the team, would be useful also...