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Stupid Stupid drum

Discussion in 'New Version Suggestions' started by ANUBIS199, Oct 21, 2001.

  1. ANUBIS199

    ANUBIS199 New Member

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    Is it really mil-spec to give a standard troop a 75 round drum on an SMG??? Wouldnt the barrel melt after emptying the clip?? Im not sure but I thought the AKMSU fired full sized Ak-47 rounds? Wouldnt that round melt the barrel of an SMG after fireing so many rounds so quicky? Because of this I thought I would offer up the suggestion of removing the drum on the AK, it still is a fine and well balanced SMG (trade ROF for the damage). Im sure this has been suggested before but bumping up old messages is pointless, the topic has shifted by the end of most big old posts.

    1. Remove the AKs drum

    ANUBIS
     
  2. Shrap

    Shrap Beaver

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    yeah I think like you...even if it's an AK ...it would probably melt after a number of bullet ...we should have a heat system (not on the HUD) that if you fire over then a certain number of bullet by minut (different on every gun) then you gun can jam or be completely unusable. THIS IS NOT RANDOM OK ???
    :p
     
  3. Chronic

    Chronic unʒuckwithable

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    I agree with the heat system, but you should still keep the drum in. It would only punish those too stupid to use it correctly. And 30 rounds from that AK with its long reload is NOT enough;)
     
  4. Trevor_Clim

    Trevor_Clim Is this virtuous?

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    i think the drum is more effective (In INF!!) than the 30-round mag because the weight isnt much higher, it has more rounds and the realoding time is quite the same.


    for game balancing we should make the realoding time longer than the 30rd mag.

    heat system is realistic, but a little to high randomfactor, i think..
     
  5. Gholam

    Gholam Sergeant (Reserve), IDF

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    During WWII, drums were pretty much standart issue to units equipped with PPSh SMGs, though they did tend to jam, and were supplemented with curved box magazines. Yes, AKMSU fires "full size AKM round", which is 7.62x39mm, similar in power to 5.56x45mm. 75 rounds, even fired in one long burst, isn't NEARLY enough to melt the barrel on most well-engineered weapons (M60 doesn't belong into that category though).
     
  6. Shrap

    Shrap Beaver

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    what are you talking about ?
    there is absolutely no random factor in this...
     
  7. yurch

    yurch Swinging the clue-by-four

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    No.
    There is a video around here of 3 drums being emptied sucessfully.
    Just because the drum is used for a lame tactic doesn't mean you should try to make up a lame balance for it. That tactic is based on much more then the length of firing time.
    Just wait until the 200 round SAW comes in.
     
  8. FiringAimlessly

    FiringAimlessly NOT going to waste another minute on CS!

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    Again, back to the old fix-the-bulk-system/make-guns-slowly-drop-while-in-aim-mode suggestions... although come to think of it the latter might actually BENEFIT those who use drums, considering the AKMSU's high recoil...
     
  9. BlAcK_PlAgUe22

    BlAcK_PlAgUe22 I ooze.

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    :eek:

    /me just has a heart attack

    Just wait for all the complaints from n00bs wanting a balance to that... :rolleyes:
     
  10. ANUBIS199

    ANUBIS199 New Member

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    Heh, you have a point, I cant wait for the saw and it has a 200 round belt. I suppose we could just give it the M16 clips instead :D

    Okay, bad idea, but I still feel the AK could use a little something to keep it balanced

    ANUBIS
     
  11. Shrap

    Shrap Beaver

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    Ok try firing 200 rounds with an M16 in 1-2 minut and come after ...
    I want that only specialized gun LIKE the saw would be able to fire at an insane ROF without jamming !
     
  12. yurch

    yurch Swinging the clue-by-four

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    Its perfectly balanced. It is by far one of the harder weapons to use in 'normal' situations.
    You are better off trying to limit the lame "firing while rounding the corners" some people do.
     
  13. Technophile

    Technophile Look, location works again!

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    I have personally fired a full 75 round drum magazine through an AK-47. Handguards got warm and that's it. If you fired several magazines through it the handguards would be too hot to hold without a glove. Especially the retainer ring!!

    On the other hand, giving a 75 rnd drum to what is supposed to fill a submachine gun role is dumb. Light and handy firearms don't come with 5lbs. magazines!
     
  14. FiringAimlessly

    FiringAimlessly NOT going to waste another minute on CS!

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    On large maps I sometimes see the AK used more for cover fire than CQB...

    And in my opinion the AK ranks among the most challenging weapons to use in INF...

    Scenario: MWF, I camp on top of that little part sticking out of the warehouse overlooking the two doorways over a courtyard. I see someone below me, completely oblivious to my presence. I take aim...

    20 rounds from my gun and 3 from his into my shoulder later I finally dispatch my enemy. >_<
     
  15. Shrap

    Shrap Beaver

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    This is exactly what i said ...notice the "after a number of bullet" ...I don't know how much bullet it would take to melt the barrel but there is a limit...and the limit depends on the gun you are using .
    I know that M-16 and M-4 are able to hold indefinitively (sp?) if you fire 1 bullet each 15 or 30 seconds (I don't remember which one...)
    I don't say that we should fire 1 rounds every 30 seconds but if we get over a certain number of rounds fired in a certain period of time then our barrel will melt and our weapons will be lost.
    So it would be an advantage to have a dedicated machine gun instead of trying to do like one with a rifle.
    Everybody understand now ?
     
  16. RAZZ

    RAZZ aka FURY13RT

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    Firing in bursts is far more effective than trying to rail out a full drum on auto in game.(you wont be able to hit much of anything after the 4th shot unless their in your face)

    I dont see the logic in taking out attachments or weapons for any reason.
    once walking is fixed, I think alot of other complaints will be gone.


    the advantage of a dedicated machine gun is the controlability and power.
    a big gun gives you some smack down ability, taking out light vehicles and ruining prime real estate.
    its also good for long extended bursts. the weight of the thing helps to keep the enemies head down with a more accurate bullet rain than a small smg can give.

    its like a portable rally point to me.
     
  17. ANUBIS199

    ANUBIS199 New Member

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    Um, how can you say the AK is hard to use. I dont normally use it because when I do I become a death machine. I remeber playing on dockside and some guy was pissing me off, so I took out the AK and procedded to kill the whole other team in about 25secs, and I did it twice in a row. The AK is a death machine at anything medium range or less.

    ANUBIS
     
  18. The_Fur

    The_Fur Back in black

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    The drum needs to reload slower.

    During WW2 PPSh gunners usually had one drum readied and the rest were spare mags, this was not due to a lack of drums but because the drums were awkward to carry as spares and reloading was slow as well.

    as for the drums and overheating, i think the guy fired 5 drums in succession if i recall correctly.
     
  19. Dupre

    Dupre Code Pimp

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    Uh, you forgot about the ability to quickly change barrels. If you're going to model the disadvantage of a hi-cap mag on any weapon, model the accuracy loss after a barrel becomes heated and 'lubed'. Yeah, you could fire 5 drums out of the AKMSU, but the reality is that the bullets will be leaving the barrel unstablized.
     
  20. {LOD}WolfBear

    {LOD}WolfBear Cannon Fodder

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    OK on the Drum heat issue, I have seen two drums emptied through an akmsu without any real pause time and while the accuracy goes to pot the barrel does NOT melt down (gets hotter N Hell but dont melt down) I believe the was part of the original design of the ak/sk family, if not it happened inadvertantly (knowing the Russians I doubt that) You can fire the freakin things all day long, and it gets so hot you cant touch the bare metal, Your accuracy at 100-125 yards goes from 3-6 inches (depending on the weapon) to 18-24 inches (at least this has been my experience) BUT the weapon keeps on fireing, which is what they wanted originally. It is kinda like the old 1911A1's you can fill the full of mud, heat them up, freeze them beat them smash them abuse them, and they STILL function.

    One of the original tactics used with the SKS (the AK predicessor for those who don't know) is that you would line up use the battle sight to range from 100-1000 meters, the volley fire everything you had (10 rnds reloaded by strip clips) at the same time (we are talking a dozen to several dozen men) The Russians actually got pretty danged fair at turning large plots of land, men and machines into cole slaw with this tactic, before the invent of the AK. The AK was ment to do much the same but at full auto, however it was discovered that it was much more effective to rely on it as a up close (less than 100 meters) rifle using a single/two man fire team, than trying to volley with it since in full auto the rise on it was a bit of a bear. The drum was ment to allow a single solider to opperate on patrol without having to reload, that I know of (historically speaking) it was never ment to be an alternative to the conventional mag in a conventional war/battle (there is an oxymoron for ya conventional warfare)

    Sheesh the history and shtick ya learn as a 3rd gen military brat. . .

    BTW I tried using a single drum loadout in semi with a pistol backup after reading this thread and thinking about it, and if ya have not tried it ya might be amazed at how efective it is. . .

    {LOD}WolfBear[RM]
     

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