Stopping power of bullets

[bromide]

I didn't see this in the roadmap so I thought I'd ask.

In version 2.75 the rounds from the M16 or MP5 just don't seem to stop the target. Even when I'm hit I can only tell due to the red flash on my screen. Would it be difficult or inaccurate (never been shot by a MP5) to have the target that is hit by a round lose all or most of its forward momentum? Being stopped in your tracks by a couple enemy rounds would be pretty cool rather then running pell mell through them like their passing through butter. just a thought. Love the game.

bromid

 

[DeadeyeDan[ToA]]

Well, in real life bullets wouldn't stop you in your tracks, when someone says "stopping power" they mean the ability to stop an attack, not to kill, not to make bleed, but to stop them from shooting/incapacitate them.

According to the roadmap, taking hits will generate a possibility of dropping your weapon, and decrease aiming ability, etc... I think the best way to better make it clear that your hit is to make your aim fly off just a bit, so you must manually correct your aim. The roadmap says being knocked around by explosion will make the bobbing effect worse, I don't know wether this is what it means or not...

_______________________
Shot four puppet governors in a line,
Shook all tha world bankers, who think they can rhyme,
Shot the landlords, who knew it was mine,
Yes, its a war from the depth of time!

 

[Galaddin]

well the colt .45 can stop a charging man dead in his tracks... i'd think the de could do the same...

It is impossible for the glass to be half full or half empty for you see: there is no glass

 

[ShakKen]

JHPs will have more 'stopping power' than FMJs. However, in many cases lots of soldiers have been hit by several rifle rounds during charges and don't find out till later(sometimes not finding out ).

A .45 hardball may pack a punch, but it don't do diddly squat if your target's wearing level 2 kevlar. Remember, it's not the caliber of the gun. It's the caliber of the shooter.

ShakKen
Infiltration
3D artist

 

[DeadeyeDan[ToA]]

It won't force the man backward, it simply doesn't have enough momentum. The force felt on the target will always be *less* than the recoil felt by the firer, bullets cannot majically multiply their momentum once their out of the barrel. A .45 ACP won't force an attacker backward when he's charging at you, but it might just put his ass down for the count (he'll go down, but he'll fall forward).

_______________________
Shot four puppet governors in a line,
Shook all tha world bankers, who think they can rhyme,
Shot the landlords, who knew it was mine,
Yes, its a war from the depth of time!

 

[OICW]

Shakkens right, esp about the soldiers being shot and not noticing it. Like the soldier in WW1 that I told u about. /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif As far as I know MILITARY body armour is designed to prevent injuries from SHRAPNEL, hence the name "Flak Jacket" The body armour that Inf has is the armour worn by Special ops units and SWAT teams during Counter Terrorism assaults. So, my question is will Inf have Military body armour? The body armour that u guys have is fine, but an option for the military armour would be cool. Flak Jackets CAN stop rounds, but only pistol rounds. Assualt rifle bullets will just plow through it. So what u guys could do is have the regular body armour that stops pistol and SMG fire etc BUT shrapnel from an explosion or grenade will penetrate. So u then could have Military body armour that protects u from most sharpnel but will leave u vulnerable to assault rifle bullets. This will make Inf more realistic, I think

 

[OICW]

One more thing. The reason why most soldiers on the battlefield don't wear military body armour is because if they do, the bullet will slow down a lot as it hits the armour, transferring it's kinetic energy into your body. Not only that, if the bullet is from a high powered assault rifle, the round will go through and "tumble", widening the trauma channel. If the person did not wear the armour, the bullet would probably just go through and leave a fiarly narrow trauma channel. Unless it hits a bone. Therefore, tankers and artillery guys are more inclined to wear flak jackets since they are more likely to be hit by sharpnel.

 

[Gryphon]

Inf should have several forms of kevlar vests in addition to ceramic and other hard armor plates like the Second Chance T-15.

So yes, if you are so inclined you WILL be able to stop those charging PSG-1 rounds without taking any real damage (provided it hits on the plate, of course /infopop/emoticons\icon_wink.gif )..

Gryphon
Technical Advisor
i n f i l t r a t i o n
http://www.planetunreal.com/infiltration

Read the Roadmap and the FAQ.
Get the latest scoop on Inf munitions here.

 

[Galaddin]

will there be different armour levels in inf?

It is impossible for the glass to be half full or half empty for you see: there is no glass

 

[ShakKen]

There will be levels of armor integrity yes. But armor will not be rated in quantity.

ShakKen
Infiltration
3D artist

 

[OICW]

Okay Gryphon, there will be different types of armour. But my question was "Will there be any MILITARY body armour?" The plate thing sounds cool but if u don't wear armour with plates in it, will u get ripped up by shrapnel? This is where the Military armour comes in. If you are in an indoor map, which is enclosed and cramped, some guy might start lobbing grenades around and making shrapnel fly everywhere. The opposite with outdoor maps. Having plates in your body armour WILL slow you down and they only might stop shrapnel if it hits the plates. So having "Flak Jackets" will mean that people can have some protection against grenade lobbers but know the risk of being killed by an assault rifle bullet.

 

[CoffeyCan]

The military does employ the ceramic armor plates (T-15) that Gryphon spoke about, to my knowledge it was standard issue to all front line combatant soldiers in the gulf war. Flak jackets are also employed; but for combat designated soldiers they all (should) have ceramic armor on. The ceramic plates are quite cumbersome, 25lbs, bulky and uncomfortable, so those who dont need to wear them dont. I saw plenty of crew chiefs and tank commander with them on during desert storm footage as well as in Somalia.
CC

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"Fall seven times, stand up eight." - Japanese Proverb

 

[Skyluck]

everything is physics

Well it has to do more with inertia than momentum. The bullet wants to keep going forward. The trooper wants to stand still (or whatever). Although the bullet has a great velocity, its mass is relatively very small compared to that of the soldiers. So that means the soldier has a much greater desire to continue doing what he is doing than what the bullet is doing (of course the soldier will be affected, but by a very small amount, or depending on the mass of the bullet). I do not know the mass of an M16 or MP5 bullet so I could not tell you how much he is affected (of course it also depends on what the soldiers mass is).

 

[Unicorn]

AFAIR, an M16 bullet is about 3g at 990m/s. Momentum is 2.97Ns, so the effect on hitting a 75kg soldier with 20kg of equipment would be to reduce their velocity by 0.031m/s or approximately one inch per second, *if* the bullet was completely stopped by their armor or body.

Obviously that's assuming a perfectly rigid soldier, and in reality most of the momentum would be transferred to the body part or limb which was hit. But even then it's not going to have much effect unless the bullet hits a finger and is stopped by it.

 

[bromide]

movie magic

So when we see people getting shot in the movies and getting spun around and thrown into walls and such thats all bogus? I always imagined a small piece of lead traveling that fast would provide a decent size shove to its target. Anyone here have any combat experience and would like to elucidate on this matter? Thanks

Bromide

 

[DeadeyeDan[ToA]]

Yep, it's pretty much bogus. Anyone seen the Mask of Zoro? That movie was hilarious, I laughed my ass off when the bad guy shot that old guy who was lunging at him, and the old guy immediately flew like 15 yards backwards... too freakin funny.

I haven't been in a gunfight or anything, but I do know Newton's laws of motion, so I konw that a target hit by a bullet feels less force pushing him back than the firer does (or at the very best, equal force).

_______________________
Shot four puppet governors in a line,
Shook all tha world bankers, who think they can rhyme,
Shot the landlords, who knew it was mine,
Yes, its a war from the depth of time!

 

[Galaddin]

but can a full blast of a shotgun at point plank range send a guy flying like in LA confidential?

It is impossible for the glass to be half full or half empty for you see: there is no glass

 

[Riot Gear]

They wouldn't get knocked back per se - They would kind of stumble backwards and land on their butt.

RG

 

[Unicorn]

As I beleive we've discussed in other threads here, any 'knockback' effect is primarily due to either a bullet hitting a nerve and making muscles move involuntarily, or the target jumping with the shock of being hit. So it's possible that you'd shoot someone with a shotgun and they would jump backwards as a result, but unlikely if they're a experienced soldier wearing body armor and the shotgun pellets don't penetrate it; or even if they're just so hyped up on adrenaline that they don't notice the damage. It's more a function of the target's psychology and physiology than the weapon you shoot them with.

 

[Gryphon]

For a real good laugh, watch the first gunfight scene in Last Man Standing (the movie, smartass /infopop/emoticons\icon_wink.gif ). Wish I had me some of them 30-round flush-fit 1911 mags too....

Gryphon
Technical Advisor
i n f i l t r a t i o n
http://www.planetunreal.com/infiltration

Read the Roadmap and the FAQ.
Get the latest scoop on Inf munitions here.