1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. Two Factor Authentication is now available on BeyondUnreal Forums. To configure it, visit your Profile and look for the "Two Step Verification" option on the left side. We can send codes via email (may be slower) or you can set up any TOTP Authenticator app on your phone (Authy, Google Authenticator, etc) to deliver codes. It is highly recommended that you configure this to keep your account safe.

Spawncamping, tantrums and hypocrisy

Discussion in 'Infiltration Online' started by Mucus, Feb 20, 2004.

  1. Mucus

    Mucus Gastronaut

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2001
    Messages:
    58
    Likes Received:
    0
    I've had enough with all this spawncamping bullsh*t. I don't mean the actual act of spawncamping, I'm taking about the minor and major tantrums people throw when they think someone else is doing it.

    I can't think of a map in current circulation that allows you to kill people as they spawn. There are plenty of maps that allow you to kill people as they leave their spawn area. That's not spawncamping, that's exitcamping (or whatever the f*ck you want to call it). To me that is perfectly legitimate forward defence or offence depending on which side you are on.

    Nearly every map as more than one exit from a spawn. If you've got pinned down at every spawn exit, too f*cking bad. What do you want? A "Get to the objective without getting killed card"? Maybe in 3.0, but in 2.9 you have to fight your way to the objective.

    And the one thing that is worse than players who bitch about getting killed close to their spawn, are players who bitch about getting killed close to their spawn and then do the same thing when ever they have the chance.

    And another thing (since I'm on my soapbox); It's great to be on the winning team, but if you outnumber the other team 3 to 2, don't be suprised when members of the other team leave because they are bored with getting killed and waiting around for ever. This is particularly true when playing with a specialist. When he gets bored and leaves the round starts over, only this time there's one less player on the losing team... vicious cycle or what?

    Going to try Red Orchestra for a while...

    Doc
     
  2. Spier

    Spier 1

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2003
    Messages:
    448
    Likes Received:
    0
    Good points, but i must admit, i can understand the frustration of people in Skopje when either team is covering the spawn. It's simply damn hard to break free. Skopje is also the one map where I hear most of the "spawn camping" bitching.

    Red orchestra isn't worth the download, yet. IMHO.
     
  3. geogob

    geogob Koohii o nomimasu ka?

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2000
    Messages:
    4,148
    Likes Received:
    0
    Personnaly, I don't care much about spawnkilling... that is if we talk about covering a spawn exit. I'll be honnest, I do it even myself if I feel this is what the team needs to get to an objective (and that's way I rarely do it while defending).

    What I don't stand is people covering an open spawn point from a distance with a sniper rifle or throwing nades at spawns. This is simply not fair because it's two things you can't do anything about. Don't get me wrong here about the sniper rifle... i'M not talking about a sniper covering an exit, like in RtK... but more a sniper seeing the actuall spawn point and shooting evenyone who spawns there.

    About nades.... Yes, accident can happen, but most people playing inf know the maps at least well enough no to throw a nade too close the the spawn points. Covering a spawn exit with heavy fire support... ok. But covering it with nades (either 40mm or m67) goes over my line. This is especially true with Yurch's new40mm. A nade at the entrance of the spawn can easily kill everyone inside.
     
  4. Saladin

    Saladin Fez Toting Warrior!

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2002
    Messages:
    509
    Likes Received:
    0
    Well, in the most recent case, it started when i was close to the other teams spawn,and i was getting shot at by a pistol, but i didnt see him until i got shot, so i turned arond shot and killed him, at his spawn, i was trying to flank someone on the path to the CD in refinery, but ended up having to kill him to live.

    But someone TKed because i chose to kill him instead of die, either way the person i killed was still upset- he was the specialist, so as revenge he reconnected, resetting the almost over round. Then he proceeded along w/ teammembers to spawn camp. I was never able to even take 5 steps w/o dying. That is quite unfair. Now when people from my team did the same thing, i dont think it was fair either, but how on earth where they gonna be able to play and have that happen? i didnt do it. cheating led to more chaeting and the game ended on cheating. after this map, the game was fine, but i disaprove of taking those actions again. when a mod is there, and a mod deals with a complaint, accept it, the mod has controll of the server, if you disagree, than you shouldnt associate w/ the mod, move to another server.

    the immaturity of some people shined during this match
     
  5. mat69

    mat69 just fooling around

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2001
    Messages:
    849
    Likes Received:
    0
    Yes the bitching is pretty anoying. The same thing happened to me on Frozen. I was on attacker side and the defenders' spawn was in the tunnel allready. I spotted (OT: or is to spot an iregular verb?) an enemy, he had a nade and was intending to throw it to me, he aimed bad I aimed worse, actually I killed him but had to flee from the nade, I fled to the first "base" of the stairs down to the defenders' spawn, there an enemy approached (I was pretty frightened, because I saw him not till he was 1-2 metres from me away :D ), I was able to kill him (this took my whole mag, so he had enough chances to kill me as well). Now he called me a spawn camper. Now I ask you is this spawncamping? I even explained my opinion to him, how it happened that I was there, but he did not respond at least he stopped complaining after some time.
    To add: I would NOT consider this point as spawn camping, even if you are there at purpose (I wasn't and I never was! I try to move around enemies' spawn, on every map if possible). If you are able to hold the enemy back at this point while one of your members takes the cd, you did a great job and the enemey did a bad job and not to mention Mr. "I know this map bla bla bla you were spawn camping bla bla bla" (not mentioning the name ;) --> it is a frequent here) there is also a seond exit!

    Yes Skopje. That's a hard case.
    But I must tell you that I understand it, if the attackers are nading the spawn. What shall you do, if the defenders are laying prone close by there spawn? It is pretty hard to hit them with your weapon, nearly impossible imo. A clan mate complained about the enemy nading him, but I don't understand this, he was prone close to the tent, on the street (so pretty save), I was also prone there (in the future I'll try to avoid this position, it is just to hard for the attackers imo, I also don't like it being killed as an attacker from this position), but more away of the tent, so (more) save from the nades. After he had killed some enemies one threw nades to us (it was on the Catch 22 server) and killed him, but what should they have done?
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2004
  6. Crowze

    Crowze Bird Brain

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2002
    Messages:
    3,556
    Likes Received:
    1
    Yep, mat, it's 'spotted' :). SPawncamping is a bit of a generalisation. When someone is sitting around a corner from the spawn throwing grenades into it, that get's me annoyed. When Mucus is sitting at the top of the stairs to the left of the spawn in ArabOutpost, that's acceptable (seeing as though I've rooted him out once or twice before ;)). If people don't take care exiting the spawn, it's their problem. When a grenade gets dropped on their head when they spawn, that's not acceptable.
     
  7. 5eleven

    5eleven I don't give a f**k, call the Chaplain

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2003
    Messages:
    787
    Likes Received:
    0
    Okay, I understand sort of both sides of the whole issue and generally, I don't bitch much either. Frankly, it matters little to me anyway.

    Well, except for last night.

    The "accepted Inf community definitions" if I have them right are as follows:

    Spawncamping = killing the enemy AS they spawn.

    Exitkilling = killing the enemy as they EXIT a known spawn.

    Obviously, and clearly, #1 is just ignorant if you do that. However, in some instances, I'm getting a little annoyed with #2.

    On chemical threat, as an attacker, there were a couple of guys firing immediately after we spawned at "le shed". I spawned further back than the rest of the team, and everyone was going nuts to hurry up and sprint to the southern storage area. Of course, as I moved up, someone was on the roof, firing at "le shed". I took a couple of hits, but I believe I managed to hit the snipin' biatch. Sorta lame, but okay, np.

    As we attempt to secure the southern storage area, a couple of defenders wander in. Again, np, they are trying really to prevent us from achieving an objective.

    But it started getting gay-er after that. As we started to move, there was generally someone "camping" or sitting at a known choke or exit point. (Usually behind cover, leaning, exposing a single pixel and firing a shot from about 100m into that exit point). And I agree, that when advancing, you HAVE to expect enemy fire. But it seemed as though virtually the ENTIRE defending team was moving to known spawn/exit points, and setting up shop. Normally, I don't really give a $hit. When on attack, I try to attack, and when on defend, I try to defend. That generally means getting somewhere near the objective, or if I see that the objective has been captured, trying to get to the extraction area to cut off the attacker.

    For some reason, I got a little frustrated last night during my "exit executions", so when on defend, I just ran like hell to the exit points and did a little "exit killing" myself. Didn't really hide, just stood out in the open, just out of sniper actor warnings, and waited. Sure enough, my kills were pretty high, and pi$$ing people off. I got virtually no satisfaction from it. Now, the attackers did manage to get the CD, but never did make it to the extraction. We had people covering spawn areas and went directly to "camp" the extraction area.

    Neither team got the objective and round-winner went back to basic TDM percentages. :lol:

    My point is this: While I agree that team movement, use of cover, expectation of fire, etc, etc, must be realized, I also think it's a pretty lame gameplan for the entire defending team to sit as far away from possible from the objective and as close as possible to the spawn. I feel as strongly about this as a lot of current 2.9 players and former RaV2 players feel/felt about bunnyhopping and runnin' and gunnin'.

    Knowing maps is important, but known, established spawns shouldn't really be exploited like they sometimes are. (I miss RTS)

    Again, I'm not cryin' or whinin' and I generally won't spawn or exit kill ingame, I just think that "campin' the exits" takes away a little from the intended game play of attacking/protecting a known object.

    You guys that want to exitkill, go ahead, fine with me. But be smart about it, don't stay in the same position for too long, cuz if it isn't me, somebody's gonna getcha. :D
     
  8. {GD}Odie3

    {GD}Odie3 You Give Odie a Boner

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2001
    Messages:
    1,208
    Likes Received:
    0
    Yep I am with Crwoze's.
     
  9. geogob

    geogob Koohii o nomimasu ka?

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2000
    Messages:
    4,148
    Likes Received:
    0
    IMO, people should use judgement. What is more important? quality of the game or winning at all cost?

    Continuously holding back an attacking team at their spawn is no fun. Yes, you can do it... but if all the team does that and it completely stops the game, it is no fun. Having one player holding an exit to force the ennemy to take another route, that one thing. Having a whole team covering all exits... and doing nothing else, that's simply ruinig a fine round.

    When using such tactics, which are efficient but can become very frustrating, care should be taken not to push it too far. It's exactly the same thing as with the use of sniper rifles in a map like RtK. Snipers play a crutial role in this game. But if EVERY member of a team take a robar and becomes a sniper, the games chokes, the fun ends.
     
  10. Mucus

    Mucus Gastronaut

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2001
    Messages:
    58
    Likes Received:
    0
    Me too. But I've said this before: If spawnkilling/exitcamping are consistently ruining gameplay it's because the map is allowing it. Chemical Threat is not one of my favourite maps. It's a shame because I think it's one of the nicest looking maps out there with a good mix of CQB and long range opportunities, but the spawn points are retarded.

    You can't tell players "Don't go to that spot on the map and shoot me" because, for the most part, they are not going to listen. If I can get into a position that allows me to kill large numbers of the opposing team and make it difficult for them to achieve their objective, more often than not, I am going to do it.

    However, there are numerous maps that take you close to the enemies spawn on your way to the objective (or extraction point). Skopje being one example. Are you supposed to ignore the fact that the enemy is going to spawn behind you (or very close to you) and continue on your merry way, or should you take the opportunity to take a couple out of play for while? Face it, on Skopje if you don't cover the defenders spawn when you are at the CD, your chances of getting away diminish considerably.

    Spawn points need to be better thought out. If you can lob a nade into an enemies spawn (not something I've ever done intentionally) then perhaps the mapper could put up an invisible wall around the spawn, just above head height that could bounce the nade back. Or even better, locate the spawn in a building with multiple exits.

    And for the maps that have changing spawn points, Brikby for example (a great map IMHO) it's possible for players to wind up very close to the enemy spawn with out meaning to. I got stuck "behind enemy lines" when the attackers secured the land in front of the town. I was low on health and stamina. What was I supposed to do? Crawl back into town? Instead, I hung out in a piece of grass and shot at the enemy... got accused of spawn camping... crawled out of my patch of grass and promptly got shot.

    Doc
     
  11. 5eleven

    5eleven I don't give a f**k, call the Chaplain

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2003
    Messages:
    787
    Likes Received:
    0
    LMFAO, I accidentally did the same thing on Brikby.......I felt kind of bad ( :lol: ) about being back there, so I tried to run back to town.......the sniper actor was a crappy shot. :lol: Anyway, I shot one on my way back, in the back, and was promptly crushed from behind. :D

    I didn't get accused of camping though. :eek:
     
  12. NTKB

    NTKB Banned

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2001
    Messages:
    2,858
    Likes Received:
    0
    *smacks saladin*

    Yeah I shot him. But afterwards I had to ask myself, wtf was I doing in the area WITH saladin? ;) Sorry I was drunk as a skunk last night, not exactly your picture perfect admin. Hehe. Just try and steer clear of spawns. I must agree I think its legal to exit kill but like Geogob said, is it better to win at all costs or let the other team have fun also? I think its cool to exit kill if theres 18 people in the server, but when theres half that lay off it. Otherwise soon the server will have half of the half get my drift? ;)
     
  13. {GD}Odie3

    {GD}Odie3 You Give Odie a Boner

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2001
    Messages:
    1,208
    Likes Received:
    0
    :lol: What NTKB was drunk last night? I would have never known :lol:
     
  14. 5eleven

    5eleven I don't give a f**k, call the Chaplain

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2003
    Messages:
    787
    Likes Received:
    0
    I wondered. I got on at between 1 or 2A and he wasn't there. Musta passed out. :lol:
     
  15. Turin_Turambar

    Turin_Turambar Pls don´t shoot to the Asha´man

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2002
    Messages:
    339
    Likes Received:
    0
    Exitcamping is also bad (in most of the ocasions). Why? Because is unrealistic.
    IRL the defenders cant leave the objetive and "press forward" cos they dont know if the attackers then will go around and attack from another direction. Because IRL the "map" doesn't have limits and you could go around and flank. There isnt a fixed spawn point.

    Group Therapy:

    Lets all repeat -

    Infiltration is "this is as real as it gets"
    Infiltration is "this is as real as it gets"
    Infiltration is "this is as real as it gets"
    Infiltration is "this is as real as it gets"

    Repeat one thousand more in your houses, boys. :D
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2004
  16. mat69

    mat69 just fooling around

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2001
    Messages:
    849
    Likes Received:
    0
    Then please explain me what an enemy location (a town or whatever controlled by the enemy) is? Do you think there are only soldiers directly close to the objective? Don't you think that there are also some (at lease some, I'm not talking about the whole team exitcamping) soldiers on other places in a town?
    And also explain me what "engage the enemy" means ... ;)
    It is pretty anyoing if the whole team is exit ... or whatever camping, but this is just the worst case and does not happen often imo. So where is the problem if you as a whole team of around 7 people have to kill two enemies untill you reach the objective, there you have to kill some people as well. In reality you aren't just covering the objective but also tactical usefull places.
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2004
  17. NTKB

    NTKB Banned

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2001
    Messages:
    2,858
    Likes Received:
    0
    Exit killing is fine. its like cutting off supply lines or ambushing reinforcements. If the enemy team is so unorganized they cant remove a single person camping a chokepoint they deserve to die. If an exitcamper is truely a problem everyone should rush out at the same time and sure one or two might die but the threat will be removed. Theres other ways to handle it as well, smoke etc.
     
  18. LIGHTFIGHTER

    LIGHTFIGHTER 11B3H AFA MEMBER

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2002
    Messages:
    207
    Likes Received:
    0
    I agree with Doc Mucas stop bitchin its just a game!!!
     
  19. LIGHTFIGHTER

    LIGHTFIGHTER 11B3H AFA MEMBER

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2002
    Messages:
    207
    Likes Received:
    0
    Learn to spawn!!!
     
  20. Crowze

    Crowze Bird Brain

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2002
    Messages:
    3,556
    Likes Received:
    1
    Learn to not post in zombie threads :p.
     

Share This Page