So who's buying Crysis 2?

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Are you buying Crysis 2? Did you Pirate it?


  • Total voters
    62

SleepyHe4d

fap fap fap
Jan 20, 2008
4,152
0
0
Why? Because you don't like that? Then don't save.

Sorry, but that's a stupid argument for the implementation of game mechanics. :rolleyes:

"If you don't like killstreaks in COD, don't use em!"

Sure... :lol:



If you could save in Demon Souls, it would be a completely different game and the gaming community would have looked at it in completely different eyes. You would even be able to skip over the ghost mechanic. Funny thing is that is how it was in Bioshock, they had both checkpoints and saving so by saving you could just skip over the checkpoint system and the challenges that brings. :hmm:
 
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Mozi

Zer0 as a number
Apr 12, 2002
3,544
0
0
In the Borderlands..
www.mozidesign.com
Some games annoyingly do a checkpoint save in the middle of a tense battle (if you accidentally walk into the trigger before clearing the area for example). Like in Call of Duty, I've been respawned with a million bullet tracers hitting my face.

I had a fun one in Halo 3. I got a checkpoint save right before my AI buddies drove the warthog I was in over a cliff! Checkpoint reloaded and within seconds.. weeheeeeeee let's go off this cliff.

Took some timing and practice to bail out before the damn thing went over the edge. Nice spot for a checkpoint save I say.
 

hal

Dictator
Staff member
Nov 24, 1998
21,409
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Sorry, but that's a stupid argument for the implementation of game mechanics. :rolleyes:

"If you don't like killstreaks in COD, don't use em!"

Sure... :lol:

If you could save in Demon Souls, it would be a completely different game and the gaming community would have looked at it in completely different eyes. You would even be able to skip over the ghost mechanic. Funny thing is that is how it was in Bioshock, they had both checkpoints and saving so by saving you could just skip over the checkpoint system and the challenges that brings. :hmm:

Well your point was that ALL games should move to a checkpoint system and I find that to be a pretty stupid point of view. Your analogy was equally stupid because you're comparing a multiplayer game - in which you OBVIOUSLY can't save - to a singleplayer game in which saving is merely a preference.

I assume you object to saving at will because that has the potential to cheapen the consequence of death or some other such thing. Well, good for you - don't save. A developer could easily implement a system of trade-offs in which non-checkpoint saves have a small penalty... or the reverse could be true - you gain a small reward for not using additional saves. Whatever.

But if I'm playing a game and I have to get up and leave for whatever reason then whose business is it other than mine? Give me the choice and don't make "gameplay mechanics" out of saves. Or at least deal with it in a different way.
 

UBerserker

old EPIC GAMES
Jan 20, 2008
4,798
0
0
I had a fun one in Halo 3. I got a checkpoint save right before my AI buddies drove the warthog I was in over a cliff! Checkpoint reloaded and within seconds.. weeheeeeeee let's go off this cliff.

First Halo game was also pretty screwed up with the checkpoints. They came up all of a sudden and generally never in specified moments. The second level was a pain in the ass due to this.

Another thing I really, really hate is the option of changing difficulties during mid-game. Did you make your final choice? Then stick to it until the end of the game.
Maybe useful for RPG games though.
 
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shadow_dragon

is ironing his panties!
First Halo game was also pretty screwed up with the checkpoints. They came up all of a sudden and generally never in specified moments. The second level was a pain in the ass due to this.

Another thing I really, really hate is the option of changing difficulties during mid-game. Did you make your final choice? Then stick to it until the end of the game.
Maybe useful for RPG games though.

What i hate is that picking a difficulty is a lie. Choosing normal is NEVER choosing normal. it's always just the same as easy with extra damage or some other limitation but really all that means is that they made the game easy in the first place and then implemented some arbitrary "debuffs" for higher difficulties.
I shall never stop selecting normal difficulty when playing a game for the first time though... despite the fact it's nearly always the worst tuned setting. :(

And i agree with Hal on the saves discussion.
 

Kantham

Fool.
Sep 17, 2004
18,034
2
38
Okay.

I just read the game does not come with sandbox 3. I played the leaked beta, I toyed with the sandbox 3. This is right down laughable.

Seriously, I think I'll not be able to stand this anymore, especially considering I'm heading for a job in the industry, with my character-ism, I'll just flame hardcore the retards in the studio who's making DLC > modders decisions and get fired instantaneously.

The video game industry starts to seriously stink.
 

Mozi

Zer0 as a number
Apr 12, 2002
3,544
0
0
In the Borderlands..
www.mozidesign.com
The video game industry starts to seriously stink.

Incoming rant...

The video game industry is changing yes, but the people that work behind the games have one goal to get a 'decent' game into the market. I can see your frustration at the lack of mod tools, but in this day and age I think if a company can get a working game out the door, minus the issues we all 'rage about' (like me with checkpoint saves on PC) more power to them.

It's super competitive market out there. Telling average gamer to spend 60 bucks on your product is a hard sell. Not everyone is super hard core, and as a company you want to target the mainstream.

If you can get 100 people to give you 60 bucks compared to 5 hardcore elitists you tailored the game for only which would you choose if you wanted to make a living off making games? It's a hard trade off... I too miss the 'golden days' of PC gaming where almost every title had a mod tool set.

If you want to get a job as an LD you can do it, but you won't last long with an ego (no offense) if you intend on flaming your co-workers for not being hardcore enough and working on DLC of any given game which is a means to make more money for you as an employee. And tell everyone to make mod tools for the community first aside from getting the game shipped on time won't settle well with your co-workers.

Yes there are times I don't like how things turn out, but at least in a company, if you are cool minded enough to start a proper discussion things can change, ranting about it in an office setting won't help you. But at the end of the day there those who have more say power than you. If you can convince them to make a change it may happen on any game you are working on. Just have to do it the right way.

Having an editor is not the sole purpose developers make games... just saying folks...

Plus in this day and age, if you want to get a job in the industry, learn Unreal tech. It's everywhere and you can do that with UDK. Granted it's limited in assets but a lot can be achieved with a free tool! Also learn hammer if you want to, more people may play your maps if you make a TF2 map. If you make some good stuff and show it off for a job you may just get it. Thing is, anyone can learn a tool, what's harder to learn are the concepts of level design. If you learn the concepts with the tools you have then applying them to a different tool set should not be hard.
 
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Kantham

Fool.
Sep 17, 2004
18,034
2
38
Incoming rant...

-snip-

I know all about that. Right now, I'm at home sitting in a super comfy chair, approximately 1 and a half year away from my technique in VG 3D modeling, my goal is still quite far ahead, I'm ranting a lot on a Internet forum. I'm looking at my post right now and I don't agree with it - I just know I won't behave like that, and even though I might suggest a few things to my superiors, I won't react from any negative results.

Working in the video game industry has been a vision I've had for quite a while and I don't plan to let all the hard work fall down to some miserable lack of behavior.

Most of your arguments doesn't relate - some developers will have the toolsets for their internal beta releases, as soon as the game hits the shelves, the tool is locked, it is removed.

What they say about it? They want you to get plugged in with their engine SDK. They want you to pay their DLC. Forget the days of PC gaming and it's advantages. It's nearly over, besides the KB/M combo. PC gaming is not dead, it never was, it just completely lost it's advantages to a level where every platforms are "evened-out".

Almost every game developers are following this concept.


Having an editor is not the sole purpose developers make games... just saying folks...

You were one toying with them tools before touching the industry, it's really easy for you to say.
 

Mozi

Zer0 as a number
Apr 12, 2002
3,544
0
0
In the Borderlands..
www.mozidesign.com
You were one toying with them tools before touching the industry, it's really easy for you to say.

True, and my first job in the industry had nothing to do with 'real' level design. Did some levels in 3DS MAX then started to become a document monkey (long story for another day)I kept making the UT3 and Gears mods to get an Unreal gig. And I still am messing with the tools Really dig UDK.

But if I did not have a job in the industry I'd keep making maps for what ever tool I could get my hand on. Yeah I too would have the 'expectation' to get different mod tools, but I guess I am person who can live with what they got. If UT3 and Gears were my choices to work with, hell if no one plays the maps, I'd keep building maps for my own experience and editor knowledge.

Let's try to get back on topic with Crysis 2. If you wish to continue this discussion about mod tools, start a new thread as this is an interesting discussion in it self.
 
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ambershee

Nimbusfish Rawks
Apr 18, 2006
4,519
7
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36
Nomad
sheelabs.gamemod.net
Trick is Mozi, in most cases the tools already exist and the cost of releasing them 'as is' and without support tends to be pretty low - especially if you're a developer who licenses their engine for commercial use anyway. The cost of putting such a copy of Sandbox on the game disk in the instance of Crysis 2 was negligable.
 

SleepyHe4d

fap fap fap
Jan 20, 2008
4,152
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Well your point was that ALL games should move to a checkpoint system and I find that to be a pretty stupid point of view. Your analogy was equally stupid because you're comparing a multiplayer game - in which you OBVIOUSLY can't save - to a singleplayer game in which saving is merely a preference.

I assume you object to saving at will because that has the potential to cheapen the consequence of death or some other such thing. Well, good for you - don't save. A developer could easily implement a system of trade-offs in which non-checkpoint saves have a small penalty... or the reverse could be true - you gain a small reward for not using additional saves. Whatever.

But if I'm playing a game and I have to get up and leave for whatever reason then whose business is it other than mine? Give me the choice and don't make "gameplay mechanics" out of saves. Or at least deal with it in a different way.

I figured you would take my analogy a bit too seriously, it was an exaggeration to make a point. Still it works, it doesn't matter if it's singleplayer vs multiplayer, the point was that a game mechanic is there and you're asking a player to ignore it. That is way less rewarding and is just bad game design as opposed to the cheap mechanic not being there in the first place.

Edit:
If you STILL can't see where I'm coming from, how about another analogy, and this is way over exaggerating but it's still no different than what you were implying should be okay for devs to do: at the start of Doom 3 and in a room every 30 minutes after the last there should be a BFG with infinite ammo in it and if people don't like it they should ignore it. Yeah, that's a lot of fun and isn't stupid at all. Would some people ignore it and play for the challenge anyways? Yes. Would they still think it's stupid? Yes. Would they still feel like it cheapens their experience or their game purchase? Yes. Would they still prefer it wasn't in the game in the first place? Yes. If you would answer no to any of those questions then I give up and you win. :p

As for "easily implement a system of trade-offs," that would turn out a lot different than you think. In that case you're asking the player to judge how many saves should be used in whatever area they are in or what the balance of saves should be. That would be a game in itself and something the player should definitely not have to worry about. Bad design again.

In your last paragraph, you seem to be implying that a user save system is the only way you can possibly set it up where you can get up and go at any time? I hope your whole argument is not based on this. :hmm: Being able to "Save and Quit" and then resume where you left of has been around forever, not many checkpoint games seem to make use of it though, but that's more game design fail. :(
 
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ambershee

Nimbusfish Rawks
Apr 18, 2006
4,519
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sheelabs.gamemod.net
Quick saves don't belong in most games that include them, FPSs, especially. It's a means of negating the difficulty of the gameplay and doesn't serve much more of a positive purpose.

Save-anywhere is much more useful in games such as Pokemon, or open world / sandbox games that are not checkpointed, where it does actually serve a purpose.
 

neilthecellist

Renegade.
May 24, 2004
2,306
0
0
San Diego, California
www. .
I have it on PC. If I didn't know what Crysis 1 was, I would've given Crysis 2 a 6.5/10. No, seriously, the single player isn't bad (it's better than either Modern Warfare game for sure, and obviously trumps any Unreal Tournament game as far as story). It has all the necessary plot twists, and the story is tragic and you really feel for Prophet near the end of the game when he's (obviously) betrayed.

Multiplayer? It's Call of Duty with better weapons. Within a 3 hour timeframe, I leveled up to level 7 from level 1 (my preorder code didn't work so I didn't start at level 5, why the hell did I pay an extra ten dollars for the Limited Edition then...?). Basically the netcode is just as bad as Modern Warfare so you can shoot anywhere AROUND the enemy and s/he will still die.

The big maps that you had in Crysis 1 no longer exist in Crysis 2. Each map is tight and cramped, probably to appease all the console gamers out there.

Oh, and half the servers don't work. "Match starts in 5.4.3.2.1...." and then the countdown gets stuck at 1. There were 4 servers I was on today where we all sat around in the lobby and everyone was bitching in the chat room about how bad EA servers were.

Speaking of servers...

You can't make your own servers. If you want your own, you have to PAY EA to "rent" one of their servers for your game.

Even the leak let you make your own servers. According to Tuungle, there are currently 1700 gamers online right now playing the Crysis 2 leak.

Finally, the graphics in this game are (arguably) worse than Crysis 1.

There are some bugs here and there in Single Player, but I can overlook a lot of them. The AI is unforgiveable though. Too many times I see the enemy AI walk into walls and die. Or throw grenades at themselves and die. Or drive a car and get stuck in a wall, and then explode and die. Or just stand around and die.

There are no advanced graphics settings besides "High, Very High, Extreme" (correspond to sys_spec 2, sys_spec 3, sys_spec 4) which really mean Medium, High, Very High. Plus you can't customize individual graphics settings. If you're sensitive to motionblur, sucks for you, you can't turn it off.

They disabled 6700 CVARS. R_Motionblur 0 doesn't work. Con_restricted doesn't work. Hell, sys_spec itself doesn't work!!

Conclusion: Don't buy this game. Also, the leak is better for graphics. The leak had a
64 bit executable and you could modify any graphics setting via console CVAR.

EDIT: Forgot to mention, default fov is 55, which is worse than Halo 1 (60). Thankfully, cl_fov and r_drawnearfov are one of the few CVARS that still work. So I changed my FOV to 110 and r_drawnearfov to 80 and now it sorta feels like a PC game... Not really.

EDIT 2: If you want to find me on multiplayer, it's neilthecellist. Clan tag NTC.
 

hal

Dictator
Staff member
Nov 24, 1998
21,409
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38
54
------->
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If you STILL can't see where I'm coming from, how about another analogy, and this is way over exaggerating but it's still no different than what you were implying should be okay for devs to do: at the start of Doom 3 and in a room every 30 minutes after the last there should be a BFG with infinite ammo in it and if people don't like it they should ignore it. Yeah, that's a lot of fun and isn't stupid at all. Would some people ignore it and play for the challenge anyways? Yes. Would they still think it's stupid? Yes. Would they still feel like it cheapens their experience or their game purchase? Yes. Would they still prefer it wasn't in the game in the first place? Yes. If you would answer no to any of those questions then I give up and you win. :p

That's just as bad as the first analogy. You're giving a system that allows you to stop and resume at any time the status of gameplay mechanic. In that case.. why have any stopping points? Maybe all games that have resume/save/checkpoints of any kind should be banned because that's a real challenge? Why not ban the Pause button while you're at it?

Let me decide when I'm done.

Your argument is based on the idea that it shouldn't be allowed because you feel it can be exploited as some kind of infinite life tactic. Well you still have to play the game. It doesn't allow you to progress without playing it.

I'm not saying all games should have quicksaves, but if you're going to bother sticking in checkpoints mid-level then let me have the say over when those are instead of someone else. It doesn't take away your enjoyment of a game knowing that someone else may have saved somewhere you didn't, does it?

As for "easily implement a system of trade-offs," that would turn out a lot different than you think. In that case you're asking the player to judge how many saves should be used in whatever area they are in or what the balance of saves should be. That would be a game in itself and something the player should definitely not have to worry about. Bad design again.

Use your imagination.
 
Mar 19, 2002
8,616
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Denver Co. USA
Visit site
I have it on PC. If I didn't know what Crysis 1 was, I would've given Crysis 2 a 6.5/10. No, seriously, the single player isn't bad (it's better than either Modern Warfare game for sure, and obviously trumps any Unreal Tournament game as far as story). It has all the necessary plot twists, and the story is tragic and you really feel for Prophet near the end of the game when he's (obviously) betrayed.

Multiplayer? It's Call of Duty with better weapons. Within a 3 hour timeframe, I leveled up to level 7 from level 1 (my preorder code didn't work so I didn't start at level 5, why the hell did I pay an extra ten dollars for the Limited Edition then...?). Basically the netcode is just as bad as Modern Warfare so you can shoot anywhere AROUND the enemy and s/he will still die.

The big maps that you had in Crysis 1 no longer exist in Crysis 2. Each map is tight and cramped, probably to appease all the console gamers out there.

Oh, and half the servers don't work. "Match starts in 5.4.3.2.1...." and then the countdown gets stuck at 1. There were 4 servers I was on today where we all sat around in the lobby and everyone was bitching in the chat room about how bad EA servers were.

Speaking of servers...

You can't make your own servers. If you want your own, you have to PAY EA to "rent" one of their servers for your game.

Even the leak let you make your own servers. According to Tuungle, there are currently 1700 gamers online right now playing the Crysis 2 leak.

Finally, the graphics in this game are (arguably) worse than Crysis 1.

There are some bugs here and there in Single Player, but I can overlook a lot of them. The AI is unforgiveable though. Too many times I see the enemy AI walk into walls and die. Or throw grenades at themselves and die. Or drive a car and get stuck in a wall, and then explode and die. Or just stand around and die.

There are no advanced graphics settings besides "High, Very High, Extreme" (correspond to sys_spec 2, sys_spec 3, sys_spec 4) which really mean Medium, High, Very High. Plus you can't customize individual graphics settings. If you're sensitive to motionblur, sucks for you, you can't turn it off.

They disabled 6700 CVARS. R_Motionblur 0 doesn't work. Con_restricted doesn't work. Hell, sys_spec itself doesn't work!!

Conclusion: Don't buy this game. Also, the leak is better for graphics. The leak had a
64 bit executable and you could modify any graphics setting via console CVAR.

EDIT: Forgot to mention, default fov is 55, which is worse than Halo 1 (60). Thankfully, cl_fov and r_drawnearfov are one of the few CVARS that still work. So I changed my FOV to 110 and r_drawnearfov to 80 and now it sorta feels like a PC game... Not really.

EDIT 2: If you want to find me on multiplayer, it's neilthecellist. Clan tag NTC.


Gah! and it costs 60 dollars!

1 year steam sale, here I come.
 

SleepyHe4d

fap fap fap
Jan 20, 2008
4,152
0
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That's just as bad as the first analogy.

...

Your argument is based on the idea that it shouldn't be allowed because you feel it can be exploited as some kind of infinite life tactic. Well you still have to play the game. It doesn't allow you to progress without playing it.

Yeah, that's cause you're missing the point. I'm not arguing for the removal of saves at all. I was just saying your argument for keeping saves is invalid since it can be applied to any kind of crappy game mechanic, like the BFG example.

I'm not saying all games should have quicksaves, but if you're going to bother sticking in checkpoints mid-level then let me have the say over when those are instead of someone else. It doesn't take away your enjoyment of a game knowing that someone else may have saved somewhere you didn't, does it?

No, that's not the part that bothers me, what bothers me are the similarities to the BFG analogy. Those BFG's being there would bother me, I would think they are stupid and I would want them removed the same as I would with the save game function.

Use your imagination.

Well that helps. Similar to my point in the first place was, that's not how arguing works. :hmm:




Just so you know, my ONLY argument for the removal of saves is it's "a lot better design than letting someone save 20 times in the middle of a boss fight."

Since then, I've been just trying to argue or explain why your "just ignore it" comment isn't a good argument at all since it can be applied to any crappy game mechanic. That doesn't mean those crappy game mechanics should be there, does it? Why shouldn't they? Because it's bothersome and it DOES take away from the experience. Once again, would BFGs lying around everywhere take away from your game experience, EVEN if you didn't use them?

Your argument is based on the idea that it shouldn't be allowed because you feel it can be exploited as some kind of infinite life tactic. Well you still have to play the game. It doesn't allow you to progress without playing it.

Now that IS a valid counter argument and I have a response. That progress is just through the trial and error that quick saves allow, therefore cheapening the experience. With checkpoints set up correctly you would actually have to mentally prepare and think through what you're doing. Games should be a challenge, if you just want to fly through it then watch movies. :p
 
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Vaskadar

It's time I look back from outer space
Feb 12, 2008
2,689
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