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SmartDM for UT99

Discussion in 'Dev Team' started by ProAsm, Jul 12, 2013.

  1. Wises

    Wises New Member

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    on the positive..

    it appears to be working.. ;Conflicts with a few mods but well that happens.
    does what it's supposed to..
    not to harsh on the eyes..
    informative..

    Goal achieved.

    ;)
     
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2013
  2. ProAsm

    ProAsm Active Member

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    LOL, you take things to heart way to quick dude ;)

    I was having a dig at you because a little while ago you were referring me to various sites on how to admin servers and setup commands etc.

    During your testing you have found so many things that don't work, yet they do, as I pointed out to you on my server, everything works, hence I had a crack at you by doing exactly the same thing to you that you did to me.
    You need to learn how to take things that you dish out :)
     
  3. ProAsm

    ProAsm Active Member

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    I can assure you any backstage discussions with CB via email here has come from me and is directly coupled to the mod, like recently we were in discussion regarding the Survivability which has never worked properly and we together had to do a fair amount of code changing .
    CB has a great year ahead of him and has taken on huge responsibility in his private life of which I respect and wish him all the best although he sure is missing UT especially after we (you and I) showed so much interest in his mod :)
     
  4. ProAsm

    ProAsm Active Member

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    I received an email on a post you deleted.

    You say you deserve a lot more credit for the amount of work you have done on this mod ?
    What sort of credit do you want, the best I can do is what I have done by mentioning your name in the credits, the release and my website.
    What else do you consider you deserve ?
    I sat here coding for over a month, everyday and way into the night and I hardly get done and you come with a change of mind and I start all over again.
    If anyone is the dogs body around here it's me, and all I get is also a small mention.
     
  5. Wises

    Wises New Member

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    WE have BOTH worked hard on this.. and are still doing so... how many other people have had any direct input into this aside from us?..

    in respect to your mention... what exactly is stopping you from claiming everything that you personally have done to this project?.. nothing!. you have coded it .. and imo (in my oppinion) have every right to take ownership for every change that you made to this mod... and should do so as you have indeed done alot of the work.

    now .. what have i done?.. simply beta test ?.. think about it.. I provided you with ideas and concepts for which i felt would make this the best it could be?... based on experience and over 10 years of actually playing/administrating/building mods/researching/designing/networking/collaborating/stirring interest/marketing for this game.
    most of which are used on other servers... ie; sendtoweb above..

    now.. in respect to this mod.. what have i done?.. i have somewhat stopped you the hassle of making too many more major changes later on hopefully.. like the whole 640x480 ~ 1024x768 res thing... you still don't get that the main players for this game are not 10 year old kids with big fancy computers.. the main circle of players are oldies like us.. who still use windows xp on a 5-10 year old computer.. with a MAX res of 1024x768... believe me when I say.. that alot more then 1 or 2 will appreciate the work you have done here then you think.. and simply inserting that functionality you have not restricted this board to only 1-2 servers.

    hmm other things , !cmds would you have thought to include these of your own accord?.. admit it.. they are cool and make the mod smarter and better yet easy to use yeah?.. bit because CB got a little itch over it.. it was soon removed.. now iam not the original thinker of this concept.. but i can tell you that it is a popular system which all current players know how to use and in my case (our players all use it) not because typing mutate something-i-forget-because-i-have-to-pee . .. but rather because it is easier to type !s and leave.. and come back and type !p to get back into the game.

    besides which... i may not have another spare key to bind more crap too.. or rather i forget which one i bound whatever to.. esp being an admin.. you need binds for everything :p... carefully planned binds at that.

    anyway that got ditched because apparently yous are not making a board for the norm but some other class of player.. whatever that is.

    next is the whole mutate thing.. that is 1990's ... borderline 2000 ... 13 years old. and although very cool.. and useful ... obsolete/depricated.

    other things i contributed to this..

    dead player icons
    redeemer pickups (again removed because noses were out of joint)
    custom game titles
    custom game icons
    cross hairs in spectator mode
    the list goes on.. even things for the future.
    stats / score recovery (again ditched because of noses out of joint)
    ^ things of significance to players.... you 2 may not think so .. but i know this community.. and feel i know what they want in an app from both sides of the fence ... infact .. from all angles.. you know why.. and how... i know these things?.. because I live in UT land.. i see / hear and am involved in multiple communities.. I assist in building very complicated server setups which surpass 90% of the servers in the masterserver list.. I have access to the latest mods private/public and provide input into these..

    it was me that asked for ferbotz to be server compatible.. also for them to be able to fly SLV's... I also stirred interest in ferbotz once more.. as i stumbled across it in my journeys for other things.. and bumped the thread in passing.

    all iam really saying is.. there are 3 of us in this team.. not 1 not 2... but three.

    and making me out to be just some annoyance who just bombards you with cat feaces whilst youre going 10 to the dozen trying to released a semi-functional board in some kind of record time .. gets to me.

    i may not be experienced in coding .. but i know the basics. and that is ... before you even start typing .. you need a plan / schema .. and need to think carefully about what you are doing and how to do it efficiently lest you have to stop mid way and start again :p

    think about it..

    I was throwing things at you because... there was no discussion.. no forethought for anything.. an urgency to make something and make it now.. lets just get something useful/not out there.. for what?.. who? were you so urgently developing for . ?.. i didn't see a huge amount of interest in this thing.. only myself and maybe 2 others for memory...

    what I am saying in that respect is.. that you went to fast.. without thinking.. what does this board really need?.. what can we do.. to make more appealing and like the name suggests.. 'smart' ... so far .. imo.. as it stands the only smart thing it does aside from display data .. is the little inclusions that you and i added to it.

    smart suggests that it thinks about things inteligently and through some clever functions yields results based on it's thoughts which gives the impression that it is clever.

    like displaying the board on the left (that is actually very smart) as it does not obstruct the entire screen and is very playable with it their.. in fact i prefer all stats now to be like that.. freeing up the rest of the screen for me to see/play..

    something really smart would be to have a next key which allows to show the next xx player profiles in the list.. at a later date..

    also ability to recover all-info for plauers that lag out get disconnected.. something that has been requested for the other so called smart system.. smartCTF.. do you have any idea how frustrating it is.. when you playing a serious game of ctf and you have really good stats and lose your connection?.. you reconnect and all the stipid system remembered was your .. kills/deaths? in dm this is ok ... as these are the main things players used to look for.. but soon you can count on it .. they will want their other stats as well.. or toys will get biffed and admins harassed.

    now ive gone way offtoppic.. on a whole nuther tangent...

    what Iam trying to say is .. we have both done a lot of work here.. and equally so.. for what is a coder without a problem to solve or idea to conceive?.. or what good is the idea in a mans head if it is without action?.. the one cannot simply function without the other.. and henceforth are both of great significance.. at least imo.

    i will probably edit this later as it is from my phone and i cant proof read before posting. sorry.
     
  6. Wises

    Wises New Member

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    on top of this putting me underneath you 2 with some random character named | joazaa or something is insulting.

    and the only readme that really counts (which is the install one) has no mention what so ever.
    are we supposed to be a team or is it you two and then me...

    because i strongly dislike being the 3rd wheel on a bicycle.
     
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2013
  7. The_Cowboy

    The_Cowboy Member

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    Ok just stopped by to see what is happening. Can't really stop myself mentioning somethings.

    Wises you sure can type but I wish you had some othe skills like
    1) Suggesting sagacious and iconoclastic features
    2) Reporting bugs (including accessed none warning)
    3) Stop whining on inclusion of your name in credits

    Ok let me elaborate on each point briefly

    1) All the suggestions you made were either borrowed from some other mod (do some introspection) or too fatuous (hashing IP + Host + whatnot is third rated idea and that too implimenting in mod like smartdm arant foolishness). So there my friend you were of no use.

    2) The bugs you reported were "hey ProAsm this is not working", "hey ProAsm that is not working", "hey ProAsm I cant shit any more". These inconsequantial statements (without providing full server log, mutatorlists and the environment in which problem can be replicated) leads to vexation (specially for us coders). Here again you were of no use.

    3) You want your name in credits, learn coding. Beta testers (though you were not) are seldom mentioned in products. Just see any developer team (like that of Ubuntu or other opensource). Consider yourself lucky that with this attitude ProAsm even wrote your name. Anyways all you suggestions were for scoreboard which might earn you a chance of seeing your name in some post of release thread.

    Now I never wanted to be mentioned in credits. I made it clear. I even asked ProAsm to remove my name. But his principles didn't allow to expurgate my name. If I am in credits, then this mod should reflect me. And I dont like !shitty commands. Do one thing shorten your name to !W (and make people wonder if it stands for weiner or something else :lol: )

    Again you should consider yourself lucky that with your attitude ProAsm still honours you and your "advices" and spends his night just to fulfill you voracious demands. I mean what the f*** more do you want from him dude.

    Another coder, given your attitude, will either ignore you or welcome you with scorns.

    I know and am expecting another descant from you side clearly showing that you wont change you pigheaded obduracy.
     
  8. The_Cowboy

    The_Cowboy Member

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    And yes, I completely forgot to mention about ProAsm. You clearly have no idea how difficult it has been for him to work in this environment. Your long, insignificant and caviling posts are enough to boggle the mind of a sane person.
    This guy kept his temper to make both the ends meet. He himself wrote scoreboard (which itself becomes arcane and needs lot of attention which sadly you were eating up), did beta testing and found bugs in core. Hats off to ProAsm :D

    Just go back to this thread and see how civilized it looked in begning. You long posts just make it very difficult to track the development of this mod. Imagine some guy in 2015, trying to further develop this mod and reading this thread in hope of getting familiar with the mod, will, I am sure, drop the plan to develop.
     
  9. ProAsm

    ProAsm Active Member

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    I still don't know or understand how I could have credited you more Wises.
    I checked some of the other mods you were involved with that you mentioned, and there I see no mention of you at all.
    Do you want me to make a International TV broadcast on CNN or what, as I don't understand.

    You were not the creator, The_Cowboy is, I am 'Mods by ProAsm'.
    I gave you a special heading with Jojoza who btw is ME, I only program under the name ProAsm, which btw, stands for Professional Assemblers, a company I owned on the side for many years which did a lot of development work for several gaming companies and was the main Network programmer for NeoCairo, the forerunner of Onslaught in UT2004.

    I also won a place on the Epicgames UT competition for the best standalone game, ProDuel3 which is sill on many servers.

    When I accepted The_CowBoy's permission to modify this mod, I had no intention of going anywhere near as far as we did.
    All I wanted was to have an option to exclude Bots in the Stats and to slightly slim down the Scoreboard so we could fit 12 players in 1024x768 instead of 8 and thats it.
    In my book that's a weeks work and out she goes.

    Having said all that you come along, rant and rave, throw your toys out the cot, delete all your posts in a tantrum, then give me a 1000 words about how I didn't listen to you and how much more credit you deserve for all the work you did.

    I have never been so humiliated in all my life.

    Oh! and one other thing, this is a private development forum, so please do not make quotes from my posts on this forum to public forums which I see you did a while ago.
     
  10. The_Cowboy

    The_Cowboy Member

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    Just read this part of long post. I wish I could to slap you.
     
  11. Wises

    Wises New Member

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    Firstly ; WB Shadow dweller.. bout time to said something to me.. instead of playing the Ignoramus :D

    1.)

    iconoclastic:
    ^ YES that is me :)

    sagacious:
    ^ sounds about right also.

    2.) I'm not here to be your "Accessed None Boy" chap you got that? Also I don't care for access none's personally .. not my problem :)
    ^ where did you even get the impression that I signed up for this .. to even be a beta tester?.. I don't remember that! being any kind of agreement.. Iam and always will be .. an "Idea's Man" if you want someone to be your 'Access None Seeker' ~ look elsewhere.

    3.) Credits;

    a simple thanks for the idea's or we implemented some of your idea's thanks.. in the readme is not much to ask for is it?.. it's a principle thing. and referring back to 1.) Iconoclastic / Sagacious .. concepts.. I think you will find that these things will be probably welcomed.. time will tell.

    also perhaps you would like to also accuse ProASM of some of these things as well.. because um..

    Original / traditional Layout;

    [​IMG]

    vs Iconoclastic (new layout);

    [​IMG]

    ^example by definition of the word .. yeah?

    You see CB.. the things that are/were borrowed as such .. are mostly thing s that work and are of importance. Being able to certify that players are who they say they are (lolz) allows for the system(s) to work as intended. ie; to further borrow on this tangent would be to use the players NexGen ID.. from their user.ini as this is somewhat further certification of who they are .. and does not have problems with several users from a LAN connection all using the same ip/host .. But different computers.

    An 'extension to' or even simpler idea would be to either make a unique id in their smartDM.ini for them (which is no good for several users of the same PC) or to add a SmartID to their user.ini (which will work somewhat for those who run ~ multiple profiles) using different user.ini's (ACORP) etc.

    not foolproof.. but checks for the first 2 octets of their IP 192.168.*.* could either confirm / deny that they are at least from the same network imo.

    also on the note of "borrowed Idea's" this whole board is full of them.. all for the most part from SmartCTF.. which I doubt / even-tho you played a part in the further development of.. did not come up with all of the aspects for it by yourself.. Hypocrite :eek:

    So please don't 'Lecture' me on such things ;)

    ^ that part their in Bold.. when exactly did any of you even ask for this?.. yes I must admit that because I do things unconventionally run Actors as Mutators (Pure Based Crap) and such.. that this could indeed be the problem.. TBH I forgot all about the .log's (level 1 admin *Smiles @ ProASM*) stuff. But yet .. no one mentioned these things nor were interested.. I presume. Actually it wasn't until a more recent post by ProASM that I clicked.. and started testing somewhat with nothing else loaded.. and trying to find which mod (of many) maybe causing the conflict.
    that in itself is no easy task on a live server. *BTW I did provide the Environment.. to ProASM who never got around to connecting to it.. ;)

    as for providing mutator lists and stuff.. after getting the distinct impression that no0ne was listening to half the crap I posted .. I had the feeling that .. perhaps the case would also be re: 'My setup' , I was simply stating.. that the mod SmartDM had some issues with my setup on yes countless occasions .. which seemingly fell on def ears. Also Iam sure that you could have just popped onto the server as ping is not an issue for you .. and see for yourself the problems I was having .. but did you?.. (do I need to check the .log's for your Mobile connection IP and/or hostname + random_alias) ;)
    in any case you said nothing to help and in-fact offered nothing of any nature to assist in the problems I was dealing with.. why?.. I also invited ProASM over countless times to which he had problems connecting because his ping was too high 500ms+

    ^ consider yourself lucky that I believe in your idea and am here to HELP make it better CB. This was me and ProASM's concept to further IMPROVE on your rarely used Scoreboard.. because WE seen it's potential.. and had insight into BETTERING IT.. for everyone. also assisted by sp0ngeB0b who made the slimline concept in his board .. the only other Board ever created for use with your SYSTEM in fact. Even the Japanese were struggling with making their own custom board.. and just cache raped his one for use on their server's.. And they my friend are very smart ;)

    ^ Don't worry , like I stated earlier.. I have done this already myself .. I don't need/want your approval for anything in which I feel I brought to this project thanks.

    I fail to see how you even became a developer CB.. I mean you over look the most commonsense aspects of developing.. (Iam a developer) maybe not exactly a coding guru .. but I can get myself around what I need to in order to achieve my goals.. and producing a product/service which is not only aesthetically pleasing but also functional (your part) as well as easy to use or has a high 'usability' factor.

    all of these things are what makes something successful chap .. not just one particular aspect of them.. ie; being able to code efficiently.
    TBH I am not exactly sure as to what your intentions were with this thing , but I get the distinct impression that it failed. Because imo this was some kind of system which enabled coders? to create custom Scoreboards which is basically what I can gather from smartDM yeah?

    however for lack of !simplicity you actually invented something which is/was totally the reverse of what it was intended to be used for. As even seasoned veterans like ProASM even struggle with the most simplest of tasks.. like moving a variable 'position' or 'image' or anything on the whole entire board. We have actually discussed Re-Inventing it in fact for !simplicities sake .. which would make it 'Highly' configurable and easier then it currently is.

    or would you not like us to do that ?.. because it's not intended for NUB's but only a select few coding ninja's who have left the game and found better engine's to play with? meh..

    ^ Ohh WE (The community / admins / users of this mod) are very Grateful.. and believe me I feel sorry for the Man for having to be bombarded with all my thoughts and visions for this project.
    like he stated above he was only going to allow for a couple of things which ironically enough I requested BTW.. as 4 Big fat boxes didn't cater for a 12~16 slot server (never has/never will).. which is why this thing never really took off in any direction imo.

    Also I believe that ProASM shares alot of my idea's / concepts and probably beliefs in general.. albeit non con-formative to say the least ;)

    and I think for this;

    ^ in which case I assume this is you.. the coder dude which shows scorn.

    Obduracy:

    ^ Again true , I really do appreciate all these non-layman terms for the traits that I have.. this post for the most part at least extended my somewhat limited vocabulary .. for which I am grateful. :)

    ^ also true of you indeed.. as we would'nt be having this conversation had you not had similar traits yourself.
    example: I don't want simple !w(einer) cmds in my cot. :mad:
    (laughs* sorry pffft...)

    ^ lawl's , come at me bro.. you *Fighter* you..
    ^ in game.. of course.. I myself can't really fight TNBH. (and suck at UT in general)

    wow 2 hours wasted on trying to get a simple point across.. and counting.

    Note: any associations with the player Fighter are speculative and may/not pertain to any person's within this post but used as a metaphor in these instances.
     
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2013
  12. The_Cowboy

    The_Cowboy Member

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    Ah, but you were accessed none boy (you did nice beta testing for my ACEManager to which I am still grateful. I mentioned you in credits because you were of so much help. I still thank you for it).
    But now you have proved that you are not accessed none boy. So you are pretty useless (I mean without coding and all).

    The_Cowboy wonders
    Keep in mind that the idea is useless until implimented. And neither ProAsm nor me wanted to impliment your innovative ideas (as ProAsm mentioned he just wanted to make better/slimmer scoreboard and that is what I needed for official release). All these extra ornaments are added due to your requests (yes your beseeches). So consider it as a favor from ProAsm

    Again I should mention "We don't give a damn about the popularity of this mod. We will keep it as we wish. You got some problems learn coding and modify this opensource project (and dont bother to put my name in credits) or find a coder and lick his ass to do same".

    You are not the third wheel of the bicycle. You are the hideous mud stuck on the wheels which is something we can do without :D.

    Again, we don't need your advises.
     
  13. Wises

    Wises New Member

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    now that's the CB .. I vividly remember taunting my players ;) just like a rainbow it is all becoming clearer by the day.
     
  14. ProAsm

    ProAsm Active Member

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    Just reading through the posts here and the post on UT99, I see now where I possibly went wrong with the credits.
    It's a case of different strokes for different folks :)

    In Wises case the Readme is the most important thing in this release and in my case it's the actual mod itself.
    Correct me if I'm wrong but I think the reason you (Wises) relate to the Readme is because 90% of mods out there do not have a Client Menu, and most of those that do have a Menu do not have an 'About' page for which they give the credits.

    Having said that, the Readme to me is a total useless of wasted energy and time simply because nobody ever reads them, and also 90% of players that play on a server with SmartDM get the mod downloaded to them but not the Readme.
    Now having said, that to me having your name in the mod itself is HUGE HUGE HUGE in comparison to a Readme that no-one ever gets.
    In years to come from now when players log on to a server with SmartDM104 on it they will again be reminded of the names The_Cowboy, ProAsm, Wises and Jojoza whereas the readme's and all other release information would be long gone.
    Does that not in itself speak HUGE volumes..... or am I missing something here ?

    So if I left you out of a totally insignificant Readme which will die in a short time, and put you on the actual Mod which will be there for the life of the mod, for that I apologize.
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2013
  15. ProAsm

    ProAsm Active Member

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    Oh btw, I have added to my Logit mod, which is now UTLogit that it now records players screen resolution as well 30 seconds after they logon.
    So now it records in a UTLogit.ini file:
    Date: Nick: IP: Time: Ping: Resolution

    Example:
    [UTLogit.UTLogit]
    PlayerLog[0]=2013/08/04 | Jojoza | 41.133.48.244 | 23:27:34 | 32 | 1152x864
    PlayerLog[1]=
    PlayerLog[2]=

    This version unfortunately needs to be in the Serverpackages.
    Serverpackages=UTLogit

    http://www.proasm.com/files/ut/UTLogit.zip

    ?Mutator=UTLogit.UTLogit
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2013
  16. Wises

    Wises New Member

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    @LogiT ~ I'll have a look into it .. I feel a bit uneasy about sending something of that name to my players although ???

    doesn't it sound dodgy to you?.. LOGIT. :con:

    however let's see what the general consensus is and what res ppl are using these days.

    Keep up the good works.

    :cheers:
     
  17. ProAsm

    ProAsm Active Member

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    LOL, yes funny you say that..... well you make up a name and we'll use that :)
     
  18. Wises

    Wises New Member

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    First log entry;

    Code:
    PlayerLog[1]=2013/08/05 | R@nju | *.*.*.* | 11:13:16 | 389 | 1024x768
    PlayerLog[2]=2013/08/05 | R@nju | *.*.*.* | 11:13:43 | 399 | 1024x768
    hmm name .. does it all need to be sent to client?.. or can we get away with only sending the get_screen_res_&_send part only?

    Resinfo?
    StatCollector?
    Profiler?
    idk.
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2013
  19. ProAsm

    ProAsm Active Member

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    Nothing gets sent to the client, he does not even know that his information is recorded.
    It is purely a serverside mod.
    The only reason it became a ServerPackage is the client now needs it his side so we can look at his screen resolution.
    Anyways I've removed the source code so he will see nothing if he gets nosy :)
     
  20. Wises

    Wises New Member

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    Just had a peek :)

    nice.

    BTW ^ 1UP for 1024x768

    perhaps client version be also helpful you think? 4.00 , 436, 451 (a/b) or no?
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2013

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