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Small complaints with the 1911.

Discussion in 'New Version Suggestions' started by Domino, Sep 20, 2004.

  1. Domino

    Domino < Phoenix Rising >

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    My thanks goes out to SS for even including the 1911 in the first place. Despite the small clip size, I've been having a blast with it. Unfortunately, I have several small complaints about the 1911 as-is.

    1. The 1911 sounds very hollow compared to the SOCOM. Despite being a .45ACP handgun, it sounds more like a 9mm Beretta. This is my biggest complaint of all with the 1911, it just sounds hollow and weak... and reminds me of the sound the Beretta makes. I wish I had 2 MP3 files to post of both guns to show the similarities, because I think they are glaring. I am no gun expert here, but if the SOCOM makes a thick bang when discharged, I think it can be assumed the 1911 would do the something along those lines. Then again, I could be totally wrong about this.

    2. In the equipment bar, the one that has those icons of the guns you're using. The icon shown when you have the 1911 looks a lot like the Beretta. Upon closer inspection, I'm not sure whether that's really a 1911 or not. It may be a 1911, but I think a more recognizable icon would be nice. If someone could take a closer look and verify this, that'd be great.

    3. And finally, the 1911 seems kinda weak. Maybe more people are wearing armor or something, but it seems that anything except a well-placed headshot is very ineffective. I remember shooting a target 3 times directly and he merely turned around and mowed me down with the MP5. I don't understand this, what's the exact numerical damage of the 1911 anyway? I suppose armor would be a good explanation for the weapon's ineffectiveness, but after playing on the servers, it seems that even well-placed chest shots don't seem strong enough compared to the other pistols.

    Anyway, those are my peeves with the 1911. I'd also like to know if anyone else is frustrated with the 1911, I think it'd be nice to know that I'm not the only one who feels this way.
     
  2. MP_Duke

    MP_Duke Banned

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    I used the Mk23 ballistics (damage=30) for the 1911 in the latest version I sent to Beppo. But they might have changed that.
     
  3. UN17

    UN17 Taijutsu Specialist

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    Domino, armor is the bane of pistols. You shouldn't bother aiming for the head or the chest if you're on SG or GD because both run RealTargets and both playerbases are very Armor heavy. I kind of wonder what pistol you were using before the 1911. How did it penetrate armor before?

    As for the 1911, I think it's great. Model is good, sound is good, damage is good. I don't see how it looks like an M9 at all in the QA tab. It looks very different to me. I'm running on a powerful GeForce card in OpenGL mode, so everything looks beautiful.

    Try finding a movie clip of an 1911 firing and post a link in this thread. I'd be interested to see if you can find a better sound. I've never head one fire but there are a lot of complaints on the audio.
     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2004
  4. Cleeus[JgKdo]

    Cleeus[JgKdo] because respawns suck

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    .45 ACP should be VERY effizient against non-armoured people. More like 80HP damage. On the other hand its nearly useless against armor.
     
  5. Crowze

    Crowze Bird Brain

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    Domino, with you being the 1911-lover and all, perhaps you could record the sound of it firing? I'd do the rest of the work if you sent it to me.
     
  6. Derelan

    Derelan Tracer Bullet

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    *shudder* every time someone tells me the precise damage values of a gun, i die a little. And it doesn't help that two guns have the same value.
     
  7. Rostam

    Rostam PSN: Rostam_

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    Nope, that's kinda BS. It does depend on where you hit though, but then again it's like that with all weapons. No one should survive a shot in the center mass (assuming the bullet will hit the backbone of your body).

    I like it, alot. It's exactly like I hoped it would be. Yes, that includes being obsolete :p
     
  8. Lt.

    Lt. Elitist bastard

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    is there a reason for the microscopic mag tho? if it had 12 rounds then i could actually use it... :rolleyes:
     
  9. ravens_hawk

    ravens_hawk New Member

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    If it had 12 rounds it'd be a MK23 w/o the attachments :D
     
  10. Rostam

    Rostam PSN: Rostam_

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    Well back in 1911 it was just for karma, anyway. :p
     
  11. Lasersailor184

    Lasersailor184 The_Punisher

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    I'll try to describe the 1911 sound. It sort of 70% loud thunking noise, 30% hammer on empty oil drum. (Possibly semi full oil drum, I don' think I've heard one).
     
  12. yurch

    yurch Swinging the clue-by-four

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    Depends on what school of terminal ballistic logic you follow, really. Some would say (although I don't nessesarily agree) that the .45 has a tendancy to hardball through the target, whereas other rounds have far more 'interesting' behaviors.
     
  13. cracwhore

    cracwhore I'm a video game review site...

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    I think the point he's trying to make yurch, is that it would 'hurt like hell', not 'hurt like 30 dmg pts'. ;)

    I guess the best way to find out is to find a bum and shoot him with a 1911 or SOCOM. See how many he takes.

    Either that or ask Logan6.
     
  14. Arethusa

    Arethusa We will not walk in fear.

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    Let me know how the Logan6 shooting goes.
     
  15. Fenris

    Fenris [-I-]Fenris

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    On Sound:
    I'd highly advise againt trying to record a gun with home-equipment. Last (and only) time we tried it at the gun club we simply damaged the equipment beyond repair. Not sure whether our tests with a SIG 9mm or a Norinco 1911 finally finished it, but we got nothing out of it that remotely sounded anything like a gun, let alone realistically.

    Also you should note that that similar guns do not need to sound similar, and that almost any caliber above .22 lr will be a real strain to your ears and you can hardly get any HiFi to play it back realistically, well, at least not more than once...

    If you guys REALLY wanted realistic sounds you'd all have to go deaf and maybe even completely incapacitated by the noise level of the average INF gunfight.

    Apart from that recording firearms is a science all by itself as they sound is different dependent on positions, surroundings and a lot of other factors.

    On Damage:
    Face it, no mathematical formula, no single value, no mutator ever, will make gaming gunfire realistic. Nothing wrong with trying, but unless we manage to get a gunfire system as complex as the whole game is right now it will go nowhere near "perfect". And if it were, well, even the hardcore players would finally start to hate it. Face it, in real life firing a gun is easy and hitting the desired target the way you imagined isn't. Let alone all those "other" factors no game really takes into account like shooting through stuff, be it glass or wood. You "all" think you can read a plot of the trajectory of a bullet and now you can talk like pros, but ballistics is a science and that means a) you need to study it for more than 5 minutes on Google and b) it simply isn't simple. The debate whether "30 is more correct than 40" or ".45 ACP does, 9mm doesn't" "Humans survive 100HP" is simply futile. Just maybe acknowledge that there has been a lot of thought put into the final implementation of it all and that many aspects simply are debatable.

    Also bear in mind that gunfire effect is a lot more complicated than "30HP - 40 Damage = dead" in real life and that you can die from a lot more factors than "bullet mass x bullet speed - armor saves ya". And you would rather not get to the point where a game really simulates gunfire effect, a lot of people don't simply die, they are not granted that and neither do they simply respawn...

    But then again, these are the INF forums, people come here to complain, and if that's their live, so be it... Quite likely noone is even gonna read this long post to save their brains from overheating and just post their own "opinion"...

    Back to work...
     
  16. Rostam

    Rostam PSN: Rostam_

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    That's the thing though, even when you don't die it doesn't mean you won't stop fighting.
    Even the smallest of bullet injuries is reason enough for someone to stop the fight, and get some medical attention. And I always thought thats what INF was simulating :-/
    That's why I think bullets are underpowered. Sure not every shot will get you killed, but I seriously doubt you would simply fire back and then engage the target like nothing happend.

    Hmm... this is another discussian though, on sounds: I don't care :p As long as every weapon has it's own unique sound (so you can hear what the enemy has... like OMG PSG SNIPER DUCKK) it's fine by me.
     
  17. cracwhore

    cracwhore I'm a video game review site...

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    Exactly.....

    Sorry your majesty...

    My opinions are so factually incorrect that they don't even merit the term 'opinion'? Huh...that's a new one...

    Unless of course you are a proper sound technician and know what you're doing...wait...I mean, 'durrrrrrr durrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.'
     
  18. AlmostAlive

    AlmostAlive Active Member

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    Well put, Fenris. There is simply no way a computer game can cater to every single person's perception of what is "real" and what is not. The obvious solution for each and every one with an opinion is of course to make their own "reality" in which they can have whatever they see Infiltration lacks and/or needs.

    Sentrystudios has given us a game. Like it or not, if anything is going to change with the game in it's current state, the changes will most likely have to come from the community, unless a real showstopper is found. I can't say I find a weaponsound to be a showstopper, so it will most likely not be done anything "official" about it. In other words, if you want something to change, you'll need to change it yourself or get someone to do it for you. If we demand that the team continue to update, upgrade and change the current game, we might as well just cancel the next project. There won't be any time left to work on new and exciting "things" with the limited resources the team has. After all, everyone is doing this in their spare time.

    That being said, I don't think Sentrystudios has ever had a more talented lineup than it has today. The future for both Sentrystudios and the game itself looks very bright.
     
  19. yurch

    yurch Swinging the clue-by-four

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    So, in other words, you come to tell those debating an issue that the issue is debatable? This is a message board after all, you would think the posters would have free reign over what to argue over. There's nothing wrong with trying, you said it yourself.
    Why not give people the benefit of the doubt instead of informing them they don't know the complexity of the problem?
     
  20. Logan6

    Logan6 TC Vet

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    Well, since you guys asked you'll get it.

    Having fired my Mark IV a couple hundred times, I would say that if a person was hit in the chest with a .45 it would be devestating. Someone said 80 damage points. I'd say around 80 to 100. Hit in the the head, instant death. Especially if its with a hollow point. And I would think the Soccom would do more damage since it has a longer barrel and therefore able to increase velocity slightly, at least compared to the 4.25 inch barrel on the Mark IV Commander.
    Yeah, and I think the bullets in this game are underpowered too.

    And there is the opinion of the Great Logan6. :) However, for you city slickers, when confronted with a large pack of wild animals, I would still suggest running.
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2004

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