[Skins] What should they be?
- Thread starter edhe
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Teamcolours should be of identical brightness for all teams and models. ie : no near invisible blue and bright reds.
Teamcolour-variants of skins should be selectable in non-team games
In addition skins without teamcolours should not be selectable in team-games.
Teamcolour-variants of skins should be a bit more than just the same model with blue/red at a certain location. I think UT'99 had a few teams that effectively had a different uniform. Kind of like how footballteams have a different set of clothes for 'home' and 'away' games.
It would be nice if instead of red vs blue you could pick yellow vs green, but that could lead to the unfair blue vs yellow (blue is almost always darker, while yellow would be brighter).
Light should behave realisticly so shadows do allow you to be less visible compared to bright that sunny spot in the center of the map. It would be up to the mappers whether to add really dark shadows that are big enough to hide in.
If there is such a beast as 'forcable skins/models' then the players themselves should be forced to wear the same "Gorge in pink tutu"-selection they force on others.
I'd rather have the models be comparable or given some kind of advantages/disadvantages in the form of species-statistics.
So picking a skinny 'difficult to hit/see' model would give you reduced maximum health and less armour. The juggernauts otoh would get more armour & health.
One might also want to modify the jump-height,dodges etc for said characters as well.
Teamcolour-variants of skins should be selectable in non-team games
In addition skins without teamcolours should not be selectable in team-games.
Teamcolour-variants of skins should be a bit more than just the same model with blue/red at a certain location. I think UT'99 had a few teams that effectively had a different uniform. Kind of like how footballteams have a different set of clothes for 'home' and 'away' games.
It would be nice if instead of red vs blue you could pick yellow vs green, but that could lead to the unfair blue vs yellow (blue is almost always darker, while yellow would be brighter).
Light should behave realisticly so shadows do allow you to be less visible compared to bright that sunny spot in the center of the map. It would be up to the mappers whether to add really dark shadows that are big enough to hide in.
If there is such a beast as 'forcable skins/models' then the players themselves should be forced to wear the same "Gorge in pink tutu"-selection they force on others.
I'd rather have the models be comparable or given some kind of advantages/disadvantages in the form of species-statistics.
So picking a skinny 'difficult to hit/see' model would give you reduced maximum health and less armour. The juggernauts otoh would get more armour & health.
One might also want to modify the jump-height,dodges etc for said characters as well.
Non-forceable cows affected by lighting 
Only comment I'll make is that red is an automatically brighter colour than blue regardless of anything else. Who ever came up with the idea of red v blue in the first place should be b*tch slapped. As for 4 TCs green and yellow/gold aren't exactly intelligent opposites either - whoever came up with them as opposites should be publically humiliated and shamed before the execution
It's logical to me that they be affected by lighting. That they're not UTComp style glowskins and not Epic bright skins either. You wouldn't walk down the street in a bright neon suit so it's illogical bla bla...
Only comment I'll make is that red is an automatically brighter colour than blue regardless of anything else. Who ever came up with the idea of red v blue in the first place should be b*tch slapped. As for 4 TCs green and yellow/gold aren't exactly intelligent opposites either - whoever came up with them as opposites should be publically humiliated and shamed before the execution
It's logical to me that they be affected by lighting. That they're not UTComp style glowskins and not Epic bright skins either. You wouldn't walk down the street in a bright neon suit so it's illogical bla bla...
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"forcable or non-forcable, I wouldn't touch that one with a 40 foot pole, because you guys will jump down my throat no matter what I say."
...I shouldn't have to feel this way, everyone is entitled to an opinion and people should be allowed to play the way that they like, as for UTcomp I'm hoping that I won't have to use it to play UT2007 online. (I personnally just adjust the Gamma settings so that i can see everyone a mile away without having to make their characters glow-sticks or unaffected by light.
...I shouldn't have to feel this way, everyone is entitled to an opinion and people should be allowed to play the way that they like, as for UTcomp I'm hoping that I won't have to use it to play UT2007 online. (I personnally just adjust the Gamma settings so that i can see everyone a mile away without having to make their characters glow-sticks or unaffected by light.
edhe said:Simple Poll, find out what people want in their skins for the game they want to buy.
Multiple Choice Poll, btw.
p.s. You should wait for the poll to get done before posting
lol and here i thought i found an odd question
To those of you who feel that skins should be non-forceable, you should realize that the feature first and foremost is there for users to preserve memory as a last resort to boost performance and seeing as the new engine will most likely have a lot of people struggling to meet the requirements, it's probably best to leave it untouched whether or not it's being 'misused' (personally I don't care).
JaFO said:
As opposed to blue which can have so many variations, I'd personally have gone with cyan a lesser known colour but easily recognizable. cyan's brighter and should balance out red.
Nothing wrong with green but yellow/gold when applied to a skin half the time can look a shade of green. I'd have gone with violet.
If you want clarity, the pure variation of each as opposed to the other palettes
Then again, others are bound to jump in and say wtf? As I said it's only an opinion :tup:
[EDIT] Incidentally I'm talking about the way they should've been done originally. No point in changing them now.
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my guess is that they didn't pick Violet, because it is so close to pink which is The #1 gay colour
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// Majik :
I really really doubt that in UT2k7 using 'forced models/skins' is usefull.
The kind of pc that (probably) is 'min system' will have plenty of power to run each and every one of those models as the total complexity of the scenes/maps themselves is far beyond those of the models.
You're probably better of reducing world-details if you wanted to gain extra resources/speed. I'd even say that's also true for UT2kx itself.
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// Majik :
I really really doubt that in UT2k7 using 'forced models/skins' is usefull.
The kind of pc that (probably) is 'min system' will have plenty of power to run each and every one of those models as the total complexity of the scenes/maps themselves is far beyond those of the models.
You're probably better of reducing world-details if you wanted to gain extra resources/speed. I'd even say that's also true for UT2kx itself.
Well I don't think it would be a stretch to say that a lot of people will barely meet the min. requirements for memory around the time of its release...and, well, I did say last resort, so that would be after having dropped down the details.
It may not be all that useful for most people, but seeing as how poorly UT2kx runs when it's running out of memory (usually because of the cache all models option), then I'm sure it would be helpful for those few who are desperate to avoid their game from skipping all the damn time.
Anyway, I was merely just stating why the feature was there.
It may not be all that useful for most people, but seeing as how poorly UT2kx runs when it's running out of memory (usually because of the cache all models option), then I'm sure it would be helpful for those few who are desperate to avoid their game from skipping all the damn time.
Anyway, I was merely just stating why the feature was there.
How about this:
I don't care what the skins look like as long as the maps are well lit. It's an arena fer cryin' out loud... not a haunted house ride.
Do the above and then get the model scale and eye-height correct and I'm good to go.
I don't care what the skins look like as long as the maps are well lit. It's an arena fer cryin' out loud... not a haunted house ride.
Do the above and then get the model scale and eye-height correct and I'm good to go.
JaFO's right, models in UT2007 will use around 5000 polys, the same amount used in Half Life 2 so if your computer can run halflife 2 and handle the model detail it wouldn't have trouble rendering UT2004 models. The biggest jump in poly count would be the level poly count. If you watch any of the Gears of War or UT2007 videos you would see the huge world detail jump from UT2k4-UT2k7. Forcable models won't help much, but reducing level detail would help greatly.
Nosnos said:
If I force gorge I have to be seen as Gorge. Sounds Fair. If I choose to not use brightskins... <insert same logic here>
But let's not talk about comp.
- Affected by lighting (ie dark in shade) = So things look natural, and real.
- Equally bright in the same lighting = How often do I complain about Abbadon?
- Multiple colour choices for a multiple teams game. = I do like somethings about Comp.
- Forcable= Memory (as mentioned), and just in case.
Random Points:
Team colors should be the 6 main colors in the wheel. Primary colors for light are Red, Blue, and Green, and their opposites Yellow, Orange, and Purple respectively. The enemy based system in TAM or Comp would be fine too, just select what color you can see ok, to avoid "camo", but use a light effected texture, so it looks "as it should." I actually will use (as cheezy as it is, it's a counter for Abbadon) the setskins command recently added to TAM, and already have each of the prime colors on my numpad.
Blue and Red were selected as opposites for purposes of differenciation. Blue's technical opposite is Orange, which due to containing more green, is lighter then Red. Red and Orange are very similar, since red is contained in Orange, and hence to close that brightness gap some, Red is used. The next step towards darker, would be Purple, which contains blue, and hence could be confused for blue. The answer is simply lightening the Blue. Blue get's brighter if you add equal parts of the two other primes that make it's opposite. 0 0 255 is bad, 100 100 255 is still undoubtedly blue, and a bit brighter. Maybe a little washed, but comperably "reflective", and distinguishable.
Map lighting is another huge thing, that hal nailed, and should be a much bigger concern then any of this (read: I can see abbadon quite well on Deck17, though still not as well as other models, despite his near invisibility on Grendel, or low in Osiris. Or how everyone is invisible in JB-Babylon and DM-CBP2-Griffin).
Taleweaver said:
No. They are just more reflective.
Taleweaver said:
Animated skins he meant like "flashing lights" or something on soulders. Maybe a sequence of lights down a leg or something, which IMO are tacky, and I don't like that idea. Would be like skinning a model with a particle effect. Kinda like that cool hack late in UT's life. I used to skin myself with a shock effect, so I was this animated blue blast thing. It was cool, though lame because you couln't tell which way I was facing.
Taleweaver said:
Well, theoretically, that need won't be as prevelant without our Matrix's and Abbadons's, and hence you should see less of it. As well, if they do allow force, and do it right, force with whatever model you use, and use whatever model you want, then they wouldn't be stuck with Gorge, and I wouln't be one of 3 guys playing this game as Widowmaker.
Sort of agreed.hal said:
But it shouldn't be 100% perfectly lit either.
I think the best way to implement shadows in a level is to have them function as somewhat rare tactical features of a given level.
I really like to see where I'm going 90% of the time, but I'd also like to still be able to use shadows instead of alcoves (and similar features) to rest for a few seconds.
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It looks like the 'equally bright in the same light'-issue isn't a problem for UT2k7/UE3. At least in the demo and screenshots so far there appears to be no such issue.
As for 'lights' and similar patterns on skins. I think that should fit the model/skin used.
It'd be cool if a skin/model could have 'real' working lights as part of the character.
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Animated skins = teh fun.. I'm thinking Q3's Klesk, here. I'm still dumbfounded that there aren't any additions like that to UT's world. Specifically on the robot skins.
Thanks to Aenubis and others' posts, I've made up my mind:
-Multiple Colors for a team game: certainly (green and gold, ffs )
-animated: shoulderlights for everyone
-forcable: I've changed my mind because I haven't taken one important factor into account: forcing a character uses less memory. And with the high-detailed skins we're gonna get, this is not something that's a luxory (keep in mind that as long as every skin is forcable and equally visible, it's not likely that everyone will force the same character).
-Multiple Colors for a team game: certainly (green and gold, ffs
)-animated: shoulderlights for everyone
-forcable: I've changed my mind because I haven't taken one important factor into account: forcing a character uses less memory. And with the high-detailed skins we're gonna get, this is not something that's a luxory (keep in mind that as long as every skin is forcable and equally visible, it's not likely that everyone will force the same character).
I think you should be able to force characters without forcing your own. I hate the 'Gorge2k4' phenomonon.
I think that's the main thing.
Personally i didn't like the 2k3 shoulderlights, and wouldn't like them returned. But some extra details around skins would be nice.
I think that's the main thing.
Personally i didn't like the 2k3 shoulderlights, and wouldn't like them returned. But some extra details around skins would be nice.