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Should Epic repeat the 2k3 -> 2k4 history again to save UT3?

Discussion in 'Unreal Tournament 3' started by Mircea, Jun 8, 2008.

  1. Tweakd

    Tweakd Multiplayer notepad ftw!

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    Really? Looking at chat logs for MPUK public servers suggests that UT3 is more popular than 2k4. Well at least people talk more. I'm not saying this is proof of anything i'm just saying what i've seen.
     
  2. Molgan

    Molgan T-minus whenever

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    I'm looking at the actual number of players online at the same time.
     
  3. Dark Pulse

    Dark Pulse Dolla, Dolla. Holla, Holla.

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    So you expect just because those games give you playable framerates that UT3 should as well? That's simply not how it works.

    1) Your videocard is still crap. 20 Shader operations per clock on a 7900 GS as opposed to 96 per clock for the weakest of the 8800 series. UT3 is extremely heavily reliant on shaders, and what's good in a singleplayer FPS game might not be good for a nearly purely multiplayer FPS like UT3. Also, if your videocard is the AGP version of the 7900 GS, it may very simply be bottlenecked. No solution there except to get a PCI-E capable motherboard and card.

    2) Consider lowering your FOV. Lower FOV = Less to render = Faster framerates. It also might be hitching bad simply because your details are too high, or because you don't have enough RAM. UT3 really needs about 2 GB to be stutter-free at the highest settings.

    3) Then your only choice is pretty much to lower your settings.
     
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2008
  4. T2A`

    T2A` I'm dead.

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    Because this is Brizz Logic™, you dolt. You've taken a stance that is a) unique (in that no one else shares your views) and b) full of problems like circular logic and anecdotal evidence.

    You're claiming to know that which cannot be proven either way because it's convenient for you. For instance, when someone tries to compare UT3/UT2004 player counts back then you claim they're wrong, and when they do it for right now you claim their methods and tools are wrong.

    You're delusional. And projecting like a motherf**ker. And pretty much a dick. Just admit you're wrong for once in your life. D:
     
  5. Jonathan

    Jonathan New Member

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    Bioshock and the Rainbow Six series all run much worse than UT3 on max settings. I don't really care about medium or low settings, as I only like to play a game at full settings to see the "full" game.

    UT3 runs pretty good.
    The other day the 8800gt was on sale for $129 on Newegg, and that card can max UT3 at 1680x1050 and even 1920x1080.

    Maybe it's different on a dual-core system, but most UE3 games love a quad-core (two main threads, and then helper threads on additional cores).
     
  6. Dark Pulse

    Dark Pulse Dolla, Dolla. Holla, Holla.

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    The difference between dual and quad is actually pretty small and only truly significant at higher resolutions such as 16x10.

    Though that did also make me wonder what CPU Neil has... any non-dualcore will choke, and a P4 will only be marginally better than a non-HT singlecore.
     
  7. Sir_Brizz

    Sir_Brizz Administrator Staff Member

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    You don't even know what you're saying when you type, do you?

    a) My views are not unique, plenty of people agree with me and just don't care as much as I do :p

    b) Where is there "circular logic" or "anecdotal evidence" here?
    I'm not "claiming to know" anything. I know for a fact that it was only slightly easier to find a populated server in UT2004 that wasn't running all kinds of crap mutators or a demo server. I know. I was there. 9/10 (OH NO I AM EXAGGERATING!) populated servers were running the demo.

    Even now looking through the server list, about half of the populated servers are demo servers. And half or more of what is left is TAM.

    If you have a point to make, then make it. So far your only evidence that UT2004 is more popular than UT3 is a site that has, in the past, been known to have fabricated player counts. Whether or not they still do is up for debate.
    :lol: Wow, the irony.

    I'll admit when I'm wrong when you decide to provide something more than circumstantial evidence. Comparing UT3 player counts to UT2004 with TAM is like comparing a child's bow hunting skills with a trained hunter.

    I will say one last thing. I don't think UT3 has more players than UT2004 ever (anymore). But let's face it, both games were not popular. Both games are equally difficult to find good retail servers on and have been since they came out, basically. Comparing one to the other is simply stupid, and that is all I've ever been trying to point out. Compare it to a game that was popular, compare it to freaking UT. At least there is a comparison to be made there.
     
  8. MonsOlympus

    MonsOlympus Active Member

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    Yeah I must admit Brizz thats a good point, 2k4 was known for its demo servers, so much so that some people probably to this day have never bought the game.

    UT3 on the other hand, well Im sure there arnt many demo servers out there :p
     
  9. Grobut

    Grobut Комиссар Гробут

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    I dont really want to spoil your fun Brizz and T2A, you look very intimate there.. but i am curious about one thing here, why should servers running a mutator or custom gametype not be counted? should we also stop counting servers that run custom maps then?

    Seems to me that people are playing the game one way or the other, even if it is with the aid of a mod (and mind you, lots of UT3 servers run various tweak tool muties), and they should all be counted if you want to know how many people play one or the other.


    Anyway, more back on topic here: Honestly i think we're up the creek for a while here, people are right when they say that patches alone will never "fix" this game, there is just way too much that needs patching, and some things they wont be able to fix without making a compleate overhaul of both engine and game, it just doesen't seem realistic, and besides that, a bunch of patches wont suddenly bring people back to UT3, it has been too little too late allready, that ship has sailed.

    But people also have an excellent point when they say its too soon for UT3½, people are going to feel very cheated if their purchase of UT3 is rendered obsolete by another retail title so soon, and Epic is on shaky grounds with their fanbase allready i'd say..

    So that really leaves us between a rock and a hard place..
     
  10. Jonathan

    Jonathan New Member

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    Actually, you have that backwards, at lower resolutions, the CPU will be more important, as we aren't using raytracing, and therefore, nothing related to the display is being rendered on the CPU. :)

    CPU mainly deals with the rigs/animation, physics, etc.
     
  11. hal

    hal Dictator Staff Member

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    I'm not going to try to get into the middle of this, but I think what's being said is that gametypes and mutators that change the game well beyond the feel of the original retail title - at some point - cease to be related in any meaningful way to the game off of which they are based.

    It's difficult to compare one to the other because TAM did indeed make up a fair portion of the people playing UT2004 online... at one given point in time. If you wanted to hop in a game resembling retail UT2004, you would have to look pretty hard.
     
  12. d3tox

    d3tox Face down in a pool of his own vomit.

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    It is your card. I ran UT3 on a 7600 LE ( a little worse than yours) and had all the various tweaks off. The game looked like crap etc, and I even turned down the screen % to get a stable frame rate. The instant 2 or 3 guys got in the picture though, it got choppy. Don't even bring up what a flak ball or rocket exploding nearby might do to ya. Its frustrating to play that way.

    I upgraded to an 8800 gt, and everything runs great. What really bothers me about it though is that everything is crystal clear. I used to have some issues with seeing players as the red would blend in or something, but all of that is gone. Its my perception that the more you can turn on in terms of detail, the easier it is to see in this game. As whacked as it seems I run at full detail, and have never had an easier time picking out people. I didnt have top end hardware for 2k3 or 2k4 but it always felt like the more I turned on, the more trouble I had seeing things.
     
  13. Ignotium

    Ignotium Que hora es?

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    Name one, name just one thing that needs to be fixed via a "compleate overhaul of both engine and game", cause i play this game on a daily basis and i cant think of one
     
  14. Grobut

    Grobut Комиссар Гробут

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    I would agree when talking total conversions, playing the Red Orchestra mod for instance i woulden't call playing UT2004, but TAM is just UT2004 with some extra bits stuck on there, i don't see it as beeing vastly different from vanilla UT2004 at all to be honest, Ballistic Weapons would be another matter, that one is debatable, TAM though.. i just dont see it, thats just 2k4 with rounds and a buzzing sound when you hit people.
     
  15. hal

    hal Dictator Staff Member

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    You and I see TAM differently then.
     
  16. Grasshopper

    Grasshopper New Member

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    For one thing, that lousy Gamespy server browser that this version is stuck with. There is no way to fix it or get out of it.
     
  17. Grobut

    Grobut Комиссар Гробут

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    Sure thing: Gamespy is such an item, most people are not happy with their "service", and there seems to be a pretty universal agreement that it does not add anything of value to the game, but only causes annoyance.
    Some can tollerate its inclusion better than others, but on the whole, i'd say the fanbase would love to see Gamespy removed from UT3.
    But that would take a large overhaul of the game, it is embedded into many of its features that would have to be re-written compleately to function without it.
    It'll be a cold day in hell before a patch does this.

    Alot of players, i should imagine the majority, would also be very happy if Epic scrapped the whole UI and gave us something better, people love to argue about how bad the UI is or is not, some feel it is a disaster, others can tollerate it and don't see it as a huge hindrance, but if we are 100% honest about it, would anyone really say that this is the UI of their dreams? i should think not.
    Thats also a major overhaul job, one that we will probably never see for UT3.

    The install of the game is also a bit problematic for some XP users, since UT3 installs itself in the Vista way, XP users may not be terribly happy that large chunks of the game now reside on their C: drive, even though they wanted it to be on another drive that has better room and/or speed.
    Infact the whole setup of UT3 is fragmented and confusing, which does not aid new users wanting to try mods for this game or tweak it by means of .ini editing, and it can be quite a pain when using the editor, and this is not a good thing really.
    Restructuring thease things into something more coherent, that gets installed on the drive you requested would not be possible via patching i'd say, so thats a problem we're stuck with in UT3.

    Thats atleast "just one thing", so i belive i have filled my quota, and highlighted some things that people want, but we probably wont see untill there's a new game, happy? ;)
     
  18. $hagratH

    $hagratH New Member

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    yes ofc they should
    the 2k4 servers are still very populated.......
    and tbh,,i do like UT3 as it is now,,but the lack of ppl is:mad:
    but doing this loop back to 2k3/2k4 style..would make more ppl play it.imho.

    thts just my answer to your question
    cya fellas
     
  19. Molgan

    Molgan T-minus whenever

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    No it's you who keep bringing that site up. And now you start backing up and say "oh wait, demo servers don't count even if 90% of the players there is playing retail, oh, and servers with mutators don't really count either, and wait, TAM don't count because I don't think it's UT enough.."

    Fact: There was a LOT more populated servers to chose from in 2k4, and if your weird filter settings and picky ideas about what is to be considered as real servers prohibited you from seeing it it's your fault.

    Fact: 6 months after the 2k4 release I had between 15-20 populated servers to pick from within a reasonable ping range in just one game type, in UT3 I have 4 and up to 8 on a good day, and then I'm counting all game types.

    You can keep calling the sky green as much as you want, for the rest of us it will stay blue.
     
  20. MonsOlympus

    MonsOlympus Active Member

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    Its be nice if you could back up that "90% of the players there is playing retail" for the demo servers!

    One little one I like to use is 50% of people or more didnt take 2k4 online, could the number have raised for UT3? Thats a question for Epic :cool:
     

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