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Should Epic repeat the 2k3 -> 2k4 history again to save UT3?

Discussion in 'Unreal Tournament 3' started by Mircea, Jun 8, 2008.

  1. Crotale

    Crotale _________________________ _______________

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    Why does it matter what the reasons are for the lackluster release? It happened and there is no turning back the clock on it. Epic is putting out patch after patch and the game is getting the fixes it needs, but, the damage was done. Until Epic puts out another release, I would venture to say that future sales of UT3 will be tepid at best.

    I honestly don't know why it matters at all who is to blame unless you guys are just looking to do some serious sh*ttalk to the parties responsible for the less than stellar launch and release of the game. Why not just be done with it? If I were in Epic's shoes, I'm not sure I would continue to patch a game that most obviously have ill feelings towards to the point that few people "appear" to be playing, and those that aren't playing are constantly badmouthing. But no, Epic is cool enough and considerate enough to keep on patching the game and providing some additional content along the way. Not to mention the MSUC.
     
  2. Vitamin-Carrot

    Vitamin-Carrot If

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    yeah most of the posts are becoming too much boo hoo and not enough sasifrazz
     
  3. Anuban

    Anuban Your reward is that you are still alive

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    Actually two patches on the PC version and only one on the PS3 version in 6-7 months is not putting out one patch after another by any measure. And yes we know that patch 1.3 is due to come out but who knows when that will be. It may be August as far as well know ... and again wile it is a solid effort 3 patches in nearly 9 months for the PC version is hardly that many especially when many of the things patched should never have shipped in the condition it did in the first place. If feedback from the Beta demo would have be listened to and more time taken UT3 would have been stellar ... but still as it is its pretty good. It just bothers me a bit knowing how much better it could have been but oh well the same could be said about so many other things so I'm not going to just single Epic out.
     
  4. neilthecellist

    neilthecellist Renegade.

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    Patch 1.3 has gone through a lot of beta testing (myself included). So Epic is doing a large part to help out the PC side of things (though I would also argue that it's not enough) more than they are helping console gamers out.
     
  5. Anuban

    Anuban Your reward is that you are still alive

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    I'm not saying they are not but they are not putting out patch after patch as was said. I have the beta and there are still many things that need to be fixed so its still a little ways off from being ready ... that was my point.
     
  6. Entr0p1cLqd

    Entr0p1cLqd New Member

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    Heh .. damned if they do, damned if they don't.

    I guess it depends if you want a whole load of little patches or one bigger (but more polished) one. Doing QA on anything takes time and as painful as the wait may (or may not) seem, testing a large number of changes in one go is probably the most cost effective way of going about it.
     
  7. Sir_Brizz

    Sir_Brizz Administrator Staff Member

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    How the heck do you define "patch after patch"? By the comprehension of the words, it simply means they release one patch after a previous patch, which they are doing since patches are currently in active development (and we know already that there will be yet another patch beyond that).
     
  8. Wowbagger

    Wowbagger Curing the infection...

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    The next UT needs to be more than "just another FPS".

    Gamers values communities, a chance to be unique/standing out and the ability to communicate with other gamers more than ever.
    The success of MMO:s are a, very, living proof of that.
    In MMO:s you can easily reach 1000-5000 fellow gamers just by typing your message in the right chat window.

    Sony and Microsoft have realised this with PS3:s Home and Xbox360:s recently announced LIVE Party/Avatar system.

    In UT3 we are all isolated on different fansites, forums, different IRC servers, Xfire, Gamespy etc and theres nothing ingame that solves that. Its VERY discouraging to open the Server browser and see noone playing your gametype. If you take the same situation in an MMO, standing all alone outside an dungeon, you just shout LFG in the Server chat and youre soon entering the dungeon with others.

    Am i saying that the next UT should be a MMO? NO! Im not saying that :) but it should use the good parts from them.




    Heres five features i truly believe could make the next UT a success,

    1. World Chat with the ability to have subchat windows for Amerika, Asia , Europe or even single countrys.

    It should also support Groups (not to be misstaken for Clans) With the ability for the groupleader to invite players and then ”drag” the group to a server of his choice be it DM, CTF or Single Player COOP. This is already used by a small amount of players on IRC (PUG:s) to get good games going for several maps in a row without players switching teams or leaving. The ability to copy and paste server IP:s is a given here btw.

    2. Unlocks BF2 and CoD4 did a pretty good job with this but itll be even better suited for the UT world. CoD4 made the misstake to stop at lvl55 and BF2 had too big a distance between the promotions.

    With a working skin and character system the sky is the limit. One could offer 2-3 characters per faction out of the box and the same amount as unlocks, letting players build their characters part by part. Some non-critical weapon upgrades could be added to the unlocks too.(Skin color, Beam colors maybe even the spiralling rockets mode?)

    This could be done by levelling up or the Rocket Scientist, Combo whore "achievements" etc for unlocks. Or one could use both.

    3. Official ladders One ladder for each gametype and continent (Amerika, Europe, Asia etc).

    These ladders should be on the Front UT3 website. Just add a vote type called ”Official Match” that the teams can call when theyre on a server they both like. When everyone has voted yes a game for the Official Ladders has started and cannot be stopped unless both teams agree (another vote needs to be started) and if one team leaves midgame the other team just needs to wait it out to win. Harsh but simple and the same for all.

    Results from Official matches are announced in the world chat. This could be claimed to be for bragging rights only but, more important, it will show that the game is alive.

    4. Clans All MMO:s have the ability for their players to form guilds ingame and its taken for granted these days. This is needed for the Official ladders to work.

    5. Piracy With a closer online connection and with a steady stream of unlocks as one example it will be harder for people to warez the game. Itll still be there but itll be a tedious and exhausting experience if done right.






    So is a working Clan feature really a key to a FPS games success you ask?

    Yes, to some extent i believe so anyway and heres why,

    When the game has been out for a while and the new oh so shiny games are starting to come out, people will still be (forced, one might say) playing the game, populating the public servers because theyre still in that Ladder or Cup. Or theyre still playing so that they can do good in the next seasons Ladder or Cup.

    But thats something the unlocks also will do since people will be wanting that next part of armor to get that uber cool Necris nalicow set or that awesome color shift in the ASMD Combo effect.


    Phew, while reading through my post for errors i see my sig at the bottom with the link to a server i pay for every month and theres 0 out of 10 players on it and somehow it feels like it proves my point. Im advertising the server here but how many of all the UT3 players out there sees it, 50? 100?
    And how many of those will actually click the link and join the server when it says 0/10?

    Anyway, thanks for reading this.
     
  9. gregori

    gregori BUF Refugee

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    Wowbagger stole the word from my mouth!!!

    I've a whole thread about this. I also believe that these kinda features would help make Team games in FPS work, esp the very complex one's!!
     
  10. Skyydragonn

    Skyydragonn New Member

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    I'm not dropping another $50 on another UT title thats in essence a collection of bug fixes missing content and make ups for poor design.
    I've been a HUGE UT fan for a long long time now and UT3 utterly dissapointed me. I didn't keep it onmy PC for more than the 1st week. even after my UT clan managed to get some Mutators and mods working well enough to replicate some of our prefered gameplay features but when you have to Mod just to get some basic functionality back into the game.. F that.
    Not to mention the irritatingly slow "log in" that serves no actual game funtion, and the piss poor server listing sytem. Sadly aside from graphics UT04 is still far superior to UT3 and thats pathetic.
     
  11. rhirud

    rhirud Fast learning novice

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    I agree with Wowbagger. I think that ulocks should do subtle things - the highest ranked player should get the orb, when standing in the orbspawn area. At the start of the game, the vehichles should be locked, and should unlock quicker for those of higher rank - so it means at the start the best players get the vehichles of their choice.

    I love the idea of changing your shock combo colours as you rank up.

    Getting custom vehichle horns as we got in ut2004 would be also very nice. The scorpion horn in ut04 was the best.
     
  12. In73gr4L

    In73gr4L New Member

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    Unlocks are alright IMO as long as they are confined to things like colour schemes of weapons and visual effects of projectiles. The one thing which needs to be ensured is that players have access to all functional aspects of weapons from the very beginning.
     
  13. Peregrine

    Peregrine Death from above

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    Agree with most of Wowbaggers post.
    Except this part about CoD4 and the global chat thing:

    They had to stop somewhere! And the gun unlocks (scopes and all that) are still there to unlock.

    I also think UT needed to have a better global stats thing. People LOVE that since BF2 perfected it. I was in Gamestop 6 months ago and some kid saw me look at the UT3 box. "I was thinking about that" he says.
    "I have it"
    "Yea, is it good?"
    "It's really good but there aren't a lot of people playing online"
    Then he says "Does it keep track of your stats online??"

    Kinda..... :rolleyes:
     
  14. UnrealGrrl

    UnrealGrrl Enemy flag carrier is Her!

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    ive been saying this for awhile now... UT needs to have more social netowrking and all the other stuff that players now expect in a game (much of which wowbagger notes) if it wants to stay relevant. It can remain the same game, but NEEDS to get with the times or be left behind.

    Real Community, Achievements, Global interaction, Stats (that work) and a good clan/friends system are just the beginning...
     
  15. Shockw@ve

    Shockw@ve New Member

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    I find all of this funny. If you can't go online right now and find someone playing UT3 then YOU aren't trying hard enough. Sure, UT3 sales weren't the best but that is no longer our problem because people are playing the game.

    If you don't play the game because you don't like it then too bad. I'm sure theres mutators or mods out there anyway that could give you something like what you wanted. For the rest of you complaining though, shut up and play the game.

    And 1 more thing. Let me settle the whole quickness of the game thing here too.

    UT3 is faster than UT but slower than UT2004 and UT2003. In UT2003/4 the maps are larger yet you have dodgejump as well as alot more incentive to use double jump (and double jump off walls) as a result of the overall bouncyness (which added a new form of shooter complexity and speed as well as enjoyment). UT has walljump and double jump and so does UT3 but the acceleration and the motion of players in UT3 is still quite different and throws off the hitscan.

    Once UT3 servers start spreading around UT3 PURE or mutators that include "Zero Ping" like modificaitons shooting will become easier. UT3 is faster only because you can jump and dodge sooner (and accelerate faster on the ground and have more air control) than UT1999 and even UT2004/3 but it is NOT faster. Its just harder.


    Note: I think that the UT community has always had a problem with learning curves. In UT2004 it was mastering movement. In UT3 its mastering quicker basic movement while using movement tricks like DodgeThenJump. UT was all about mastering dodge timing (especially in gametypes like instagib).

    The sad thing about UT2004 was that if you did not master advanced movement you wouldn't fair well, whereas in UT you could still master your aim and end someones parade. In UT3 apparently people are having difficulty hitscanning the people who chain dodge and jump and are just adamantly UT style veterans. Which is sad because that does turn people away but not enough that its a concern.

    The next Unreal game will probably return to the arena or hopefully be a championship game, because its clear that Unreal Championship (UT2003 on XboX) birthed the more advanced Unreal Championship 2 is terms of EVERYTHING gameplay graphics and whatever else (still yet to play this cool looking game or the slow but steady UC2004 mod not yet in beta). We can only hope that this time they birth an even more advanced game. I mean when you look at how UT2003 had inspirational maps like DM-Antalus with all the elevator jumping and interesting areas. Its no wonder UC2 had such a good concept all of it clearly came from the original UT and its clear that nothing really has stepped out from the realm of the original game in terms of what could be done. This is good and a bad thing. Hopefully the next game can satisfy everyone and save the PC market. I still want to see conquest though and I'm currently working on a Mutator and a few maps for just that.

    (P.S. Alot of UT3's gametypes and gameplay are bad versions of those from the other games but they're still time wasting fun.)

    so No. Epic should simply continue to update UT3 for their current update plan (which I'm guessing will have 1 more itteration) and then they should work on the next Unreal game. Making sure its got everything from the older UT's right out of the box kinda like UT2004 had and alot of truely new YET Unreal gameplay. Till then, if there's something you wish was in UT3, then get off your butt and make something unreal.
     
  16. TheIronKnuckle

    TheIronKnuckle What the hell is this "ballin" thing?

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    The rest of your post was ignored due to this statement of lolwtf
     
  17. T2A`

    T2A` I'm dead.

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    Well, UT200x is faster... but you can't tell most of the time because the maps are too big/wide/long. UT2003 is/was the fastest given the very quick weapon switching and boost dodging in addition to all the other acrobatics. Given similarly scaled maps, UT2003 would be the fastest and spammiest by a fairly large margin, I think. D:

    I didn't read his post, though. Too much tl;dr for me.
     
  18. JEnepas

    JEnepas New Member

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    Yes, you'd only need three colours representing noob- experienced-skilled(ok, maybe fourth colour for the top ten:biggrin2:) , also it would be v useful in pub team based play, giving that early, obvious visual clue to unbalanced teams. There could be practical problems tho- see demo guy bug.
    If it worked however, it could apply to turrets, vehicle fire and link too. Changing teams needs to be easier than the current requesting team swap too . Teams could be randomized with a simple, easy to initiate vote between games, with higher scores carrying weighted votes. This one sided teams problem should be a top priority as it's now probably the key element destroying the hope of new players sticking around, they join , get crushed.... don't come back.
     
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2008
  19. Sir_Brizz

    Sir_Brizz Administrator Staff Member

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    The movement style and stuff hardly classifies it as fast, IMO.

    UT felt way faster than 2kx because of a lot of things, stuff like lack of hitscan knockback or general overpowering of hitscan, inability to move out of the way of incoming fire in a split second, etc. Dying more does increase the frantic feel of a game, thus it feels "faster".

    As far as I'm concerned, UT200X has the slowest most dull gameplay moments out of the entire Unreal series. Does that mean they weren't fun? Not really, but their fun was from something other than "high speed action FPS".

    So while technically the game is "faster" I don't think anything about the UT200x series feels as fast at all. Maybe the weapon switch speed in UT2003. :p
     
  20. hi-ban

    hi-ban "Building Better Worlds"

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    I would definitely pay for an UT4 which has a proper tourmament. However, i will also pay for an ut3 expansion, as it will add more official content to the current release (you know most servers have only official maps)
    Anyway, i will pay for anything which will improve my 'ut' experience. (Forgive me if i forgive epic...)
     

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