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Should Epic repeat the 2k3 -> 2k4 history again to save UT3?

Discussion in 'Unreal Tournament 3' started by Mircea, Jun 8, 2008.

  1. Sir_Brizz

    Sir_Brizz Administrator Staff Member

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    I don't see (and haven't seen) a ton of gameplay knocking threads or complaints.

    Most people are complaining about features that they used often in previous games missing or just completely broken, or things like the AI being stupid or the single player not being what they wanted.

    In general, I think most people who enjoy UT are happy with UT3's gameplay in nearly all aspects (note: NEARLY), it's the other parts of the game that don't feel polished that make them not want to play.
     
  2. DarkSonny

    DarkSonny Beware!

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    +1
     
  3. B4NE

    B4NE Unregistered User

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    See, that's what I'm really not understanding. IMO, as long as the gameplay is good, sign me up, I'm in. I don't really understand the obsession with complaining about the pregame stuff like the user interface. Sure they could have done it differently but they didn't, so what. The game it's self is fun, I can see the disapointment if you started playing during UT2k3/4 and that's all you really know of the Unreal series but for the majority of the Unreal fans we got what we wanted, Unreal back to its roots, a fast paced run and gun shooter more like an updated and improved UT99. I hope they do release a big patch or a UT4 soon but if they don't, Epic isn't at fault in my eyes, the community is. All the trolling and complaining about the little details is what steered everyone away from the game when the actual game really wasn't bad at all.

    I'm not sure if I worded myself correctly, I should have elaborated a bit, the 360 version turned out best IMO because the community is behind it 100%. No one is bashing the game because maybe expectations were lower? There isn't much to compare it to really, the last game Xbox had that was comparable was Unreal Championship what almost 6 years ago? Plus, like I said, it came at the right time for 360. The Halo's and the COD's have been played to death now. Alot of people were ready to move on to a new sci-fi shooter.
     
  4. Sir_Brizz

    Sir_Brizz Administrator Staff Member

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    I agree with you to a certain extent, but the way some things were broken was simply unacceptable in my mind. For example, it won't be until 1.3 that custom content support is fully implemented. That's a big no brainer and WTF in my mind. People also use a lot of other things that are broken, like client side demo recording, instant action bot management and a lot of things like that. The point I'm trying to make is that just too many thing in too many areas of the game were broken at release.

    In my opinion, there were far too many problems with the multiplayer part of the game when it came out. I won't single any one thing out *cough*Gamespy*cough* but the state it was released in was pretty sorry for a multiplayer-centric game.

    Still, this doesn't keep me from p[laying the game pretty often. I find it fun and I can look past these problems for that reason. I did it with UT2003 as well.
     
  5. Leo(T.C.K.)

    Leo(T.C.K.) Well-Known Member

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    There are even a lot of complaints to gameplay, but at other places more than this, it is by the masses of ut2004fans people doing this.
     
  6. Sir_Brizz

    Sir_Brizz Administrator Staff Member

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    I don't care about the UT2004 fans :) They didn't keep that game alive much better than the UT3 fans are keeping it alive :p
     
  7. Bersy

    Bersy New Member

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    without the freeloading demo players UT2004 would have been as dead as UT3 years ago.
     
  8. Grobut

    Grobut Комиссар Гробут

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    Just to compliment the things Brizz allready said about this, i'd like to add that thease things are not purely cosmetic in nature, nor are they purely "pre-game", some of them have a profound effect ingame aswell.

    If it where just that the menu looked ugly, was clunky and annoying, and loaded slowly, i really woulden't care, sure such things are a bit annoying, but they would never have been enough to stop me from playing the game on their own, i enjoy many other games despite them having annoying user interfaces.

    The problem is that alot of this is not just "pre-game", the fact that some options are missing or broken actually determines how the game is played "in-game", this would not bother people who happen to like the way things are set up in UT3, but for thouse of us who don't, the fact that we cannot change them like we used to makes the game incredibly frustrating, even with its good gameplay mechanics, there's just a whole bunch of other things that constantly annoys us about it.

    So why play something that annoys you? especially when you can just go back to the previous versions that lets you do what you want?

    Its just very unfortunate that UT3 twists our arms like that, and forces us to make that choice, because there really was no good reason for it, UT3 could easilly have had the missing options, and we could all have moved on and enjoyed it.
     
  9. B4NE

    B4NE Unregistered User

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    ok ok....i agree with you and brizz. the lack of customization was pretty annoying. I guess I just forced myself to adjust.
     
  10. pinnacle

    pinnacle New Member

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    Well it would be stupid of them not to do another game considering how much work is pretty much already done for them. The engine is getting more and more refined by the day and UT3 already shipped, so it would be a lot easier for them to focus on making a good game on top of an existing framework and refined engine rather than making a game the framework, and the engine at the same time.

    Honestly I really want UT3.5 so that I can play with all the new engine features, mainly the Ambient Occlusion filter. Look what Ambient Occlusion can do for Crysis (without the filter on left, with the filter on right):

    [screenshot]http://img522.imageshack.us/img522/1546/ao3ff5.jpg[/screenshot]

    [screenshot]http://img523.imageshack.us/img523/8773/ao1nv9.jpg[/screenshot]

    [screenshot]http://img523.imageshack.us/img523/7227/ao2nb3.jpg[/screenshot]

    As you can see the filter makes for greater contrast and definition, things that many people would agree UT3 needs. If you look closely at the bushes in the second shot, the filter makes them go from fake and uniform to realistic-looking and varied. Assuming that Crytek's and Epic's techniques for implementing Ambient Occlusion are somewhat similar (which they should be), this should be a really fun tool for people to play with.
     
  11. Vitamin-Carrot

    Vitamin-Carrot If

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    HUH?
     
  12. pinnacle

    pinnacle New Member

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  13. MonsOlympus

    MonsOlympus Active Member

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    Yeah I guess thats a point, us PC peeps have 3 UT games to compare it to with UT2k3 or UC seeming to be the worst of the lot. UC2 really does stand on its own and alot of people have been comparing UT3 to 2k4 for whatever reasons.

    Now you might not like this bit but do you think games could suffer quality because console players are more willing lower expectations and not only that pay more for those games? Im not saying everyone who raises their expectations is right but there has got to be something to pushing the industry forward.
     
  14. WHIPperSNAPper

    WHIPperSNAPper New Member

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    The problem wasn't that they catered to the UT99 crowd over the UT 2004 crowd and axed the dodge jump and UT 2004's consequent emphasis on hit scan ability. I play both UT99 and UT 2004 and I think the fragging feels much better in UT99. Consequently, CTF was a huge hit in UT99 whereas the games that people play today in UT2004 are less on-foot fragging based (Onslaught, Invasion, CTF servers are empty). The UT99 crowd and the ProUnreal crowd liked the Demo and they were excited for UT3. However, when they discovered that the retail release = Beta Demo, they completely lost interest.

    The basic UT3 gameplay is fundamentally fine (minus the translocator throwing limit) but the colors are a little too dark and washed out and everything that surrounds the game is bad (the user interface, the server browser, the map voting, how the game handles downloading custom content, ability and ease of tweaking settings, lack of ability to do keybinds, few skins, awful taunts, no location ID tags, having to load the Main Menu and the inability to pull up the server browser while in a game, etc.) Basically, it was released as a buggy beta and to this day has yet to be polished. People expected a better user interface and server browser (why wouldn't they?). Normally, when you go to buy the a later model of the same make of car, you expect the newer model to be upgraded and to have more features. Epic would have been much, much better polishing the game and fixing all of those problems and releasing a much improved beta demo this month along with the game UT3 should have been. The game also needed a few more game types.

    Perhaps one day the real story about UT3 and why it was allowed to go out the door in the state it was in at a time when other big name FPS games were being released will come out. My hypothesis is that Midway essentially put a gun up to Epic's head and said: "WTF do you mean it isn't done yet ?!?!? You've been working on it for three #$%&@! years! I wanna see boxes on the shelves! Get it out there by Christmas!" My guess is that many of the people at Epic secretly feel malevolent about it but didn't have much choice. Again, that's just my hypothesis and I'm not claiming it's true.
     
  15. WHIPperSNAPper

    WHIPperSNAPper New Member

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    Excellent point.
     
  16. WHIPperSNAPper

    WHIPperSNAPper New Member

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    I wasn't referring to the game's subject matter but rather to the types of options it offered players. Adults have the freedom to do the things they want to do whereas children generally don't have many options and are told what to do. (Compare UT 2004's options to UT3's options--compare the user interfaces.) A game that caters to adults would be all about custom content and online multiplayer and freedom--which was a big part of the UT franchise. In contrast, a game that caters to kids (like console games) would offer little freedom and custom content and few settings options. Grobut's post, quoted below, elaborates on this a bit, too.

     
  17. MonsOlympus

    MonsOlympus Active Member

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    Yeah I didnt say that a few pages back either, infact I said it in relation to fixing up UT3 as well. Either way youre going to be porting engine or game code, take your pick!
     
  18. Trynant

    Trynant Manic Brawler

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    The UT3 Post-Mortem at GDC 2008 sums things up nicely. Here's a Gamespot article on it.

    Firstly, I was addressing unbecoming, but since you brought up the adult/kid analogy I guess there's no worries. Second, the degree of freedom and customization going into the exterior of a game, to me, has little to do with the target audience it's aimed at. Example: Bioshock. Very little freedom in settings, no multiplayer and not custom content, and in fact was pretty "consolized" with it's interface. Yet it definitely is not aimed at children.

    Of course one could argue that UT3's gameplay is not aimed at an adult audience, but then UT2004 and UT have almost the same type of play--they'd be catering to kids as well.

    I'm not saying that UT3 lacking customization that its predecessors had is a good thing. I'm trying to say something more on the line that I think Crotale's analogy is more accurate to what UT3 is compared to others in the franchise.

     
  19. end0rphine

    end0rphine New Member

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    Seems a bit more people have been playing lately. I was stoned all weekend and played non-stop... I even took off work last Friday to play. I think if the community keeps making stuff, the players keep playing, the game will recover!
     
  20. WHIPperSNAPper

    WHIPperSNAPper New Member

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    Yeah, that's what they've said in public. It was nice to see Morris acknowledge the user interface problems. However, the real story of why they pushed it out the door in such a sad condition at a non-strategic time is what I'd like to learn more about. You get the sense from reading the article that they weren't really happy with it and felt they were rushing. Obviously they wanted to get it out a couple weeks before Christmas--but why couldn't they wait another six or seven months. What really went on behind the scenes? What kinds of discussions did they have. I'd love to hear the details about that. I don't expect any info of that kind to come out for years.

    As I've said before, my hypothesis (not saying it's true) is that Midway put pressure on them release it a couple weeks before Christmas even though Epic might not have wanted to release it for a couple more months. Maybe Epic would be better off with a publisher like Stardock (publisher for Sins of a Solar Empire).
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2008

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