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Should Epic repeat the 2k3 -> 2k4 history again to save UT3?

Discussion in 'Unreal Tournament 3' started by Mircea, Jun 8, 2008.

  1. Sir_Brizz

    Sir_Brizz Administrator Staff Member

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    Also, :deadhorse:

    Sorry, but it's true. This is probably not the 1,345,544th time this subject has come up, right? :p
     
  2. MonsOlympus

    MonsOlympus Active Member

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    Yeah it might even be worth reading if it wasnt the usual suspects as well ;)
     
  3. Draco73

    Draco73 New Member

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    and i bet you it will be brought up ANOTHER 1,345,544 times until epic "fixes/add/whatever" to the game to get it to the point where most of the people are happy with it, because its quite obvious that most are not...and when people aren't happy, they are going to keep complaining til they are happy, its just human nature....or simply give up and do something else (like another game) which thousands of UT3 purchasers have already done.
     
  4. MonsOlympus

    MonsOlympus Active Member

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    Im pretty sure there is also thousands of UT3 purchasers who still play the game even if it isnt perfect as well. We could go round and round on that all day with no proof what so ever. Its obvious some people arnt happy with UT3 but you arnt telling anyone, anything they dont already know.

    It would be nice to hear alittle positivity from certain people once in awhile, they are even negative against ideas to help improve UT3 yet offer nothing of their own in return. They just keep spinning that record like it isnt broken!
     
  5. XeroWolf

    XeroWolf Unreal Ninja

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    Actually you just did. Your post was simple, to the point and so very true IMHO.
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2008
  6. Armagon917

    Armagon917 TOAST

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    I think EPIC should fix UT3. But I think while it needs to stay to its roots its about time for some new features. We really need something to spark intrest in the next UT. Gears of War 2 has execution and an entire new cover system style of play which made it successful.

    Some things I would like to see.

    Impact hammer w/ ability to to reflect weapon fire back. This was a great idea that was dropped.

    New pickups, maybe something that lets you sprint really fast in short bursts but limitd like the jump boots. (new ideas are needed)

    New weapons!! I think something has to be sacrificed here or the weapons should operate differently.

    New player movements. While most would like to stick to UT99 style (I think) I would like to see movements that only become available when in close proximity to other players. Think of FEAR and some of those movements. A jump kick to knock over a player and finish them off with the flak while theyre momentarily on the ground? The options for combat sky rocket when you add something like this in there. Do I try and splatter this guy whos about to kick me out of the air? And making it only available in close proximity to players makes it so people arent jump kicking their way around maps. I thought it was done great in FEAR and other viceral ways to take out players in UT really need to be explored and tested to see if they work well. Something like this is all about balance and how its implented. Melee even? to daze and then splatter your foe with flak. So you have a slew of New options for close quarters combat. What do I use? Weapons or am I in a better position to kick this guy in the chest and knock him over, or do I crack him upside the head and while hes confused kill him.

    COLOR!

    NO STORY

    A COD4 type level system for altering weapons appearence, who really cares if they dont look that way twirling on the ground, scope for the shock (lowers rate of fire, things like that to balance gameplay) unlocking old school UT99 weapon models updated w/ Unreal Engine 3 for use, theres a bunch of cool things that could be introduced but not unbalance gameplay.


    While some of these idea may sound good or sound like **** to you I really think as with Gears 2 new innovative additions need to be made to UT to give it a fresh almost reinvisioned feel. I think COD4 showed us what clever thinking and additions can do for a multiplayer game. I think for UT to make a big splash like it did with the first one is to try completely new things while stickiing to the style and fast paced combat UT has always had. Thats where I would take UT. All bold ideas are questioned heavily until they work. =D
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2008
  7. MonsOlympus

    MonsOlympus Active Member

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    Doesnt Gears also have king of the hill? They coulda done that for UT3 as well. Its funny though alot of the things Ive seen in TF2 remind me of UT, like the pyro reflecting projectiles now and the campaign is like what Epic were talking about with conquest although on a smaller infantry based scale. Theres nothing saying conquest had to be epic outdoor areas with the leviathan on every section or anything and well when you look at assault you know.

    Assault and Invasion mixed could make a really nice gametype, itd certainly be good for those people who prefer PvE. The cooperative campaign just doesnt have that same spunk to it alittle more perhaps linear objective modes could have added. The tourney part of the game is kewl with DM, CTF etc but with Epic stepping outside of that alittle more I dont see why they held themselves back honestly.

    In terms of new weapons there isnt a great deal so I wonder if Epic heard the calls of taking UT back to its roots but stuck to that formula alittle too strictly to not get the fans uprising like 2k3. If that was the plan it certainly backfired and they could have got less if there was a few new tricks, like the avrl for instance its a classic and the rework is great but a flaw Ive seen and talked with people about is the lack of ammo on some maps. So they managed to make it alittle worse in one way, not everything is like that but the new stuff really shows through against the old palette.

    So yeah I agree with you somewhat Armagon, Epic needs to perhaps listen or not listen to fans :lol: and just do what they want to. Sticking to such a strick formula I think hurt UT3, UC2 shows what Epic can do even if it was alittle bit of another team brought onboard, the original UT shows it as well, 2k4 shows it. While we might not like it, its better than not liking the closest remake of UT we've had so far. Im certainly for alittle more in terms of mutators, Id still like the stock modes to be there like DM with the standard no player classes no perks but that doesnt mean Epic shouldnt include it at all. I think games like CS and TF2 show that people see games can be competitive without everyone having the same hitbox, weapons etc. Ofcoarse theres balance issues with that but thats part of it all, since its non standard like perhaps a mutator, tweaking it in patches wont cause huge uproars by the purists.

    Personally I like a bit of both, I like pure, I like classes and even melee combat. UT has alot of potential but I really think Epic need to go alittle crazy, sure they are grown up now as a company but games are about having fun :cool:

    To that end I dont expect Epic to try and cater to every little sub niche in the UT universe but they could certainly try to appeal to more people by adding things like PvE without the linear story. Its kinda there I guess but I really think it needs a dedicated gametype then you can get hordes of krall coming over the hill at you instead of more strick tourney capture the field lattice generator type stuff. I just feel Epic so wanted to go that way, got stuck in the middle and didnt realize that UT has always been flexible enough to support changes across gametypes, not so much different ROF's or hitboxes per gametype or anything. Things like Player Classes in Warfare for instance with weapon sets to match the teams, sure it doesnt have to be stock even then because in UT we have these lovely things called mutators :)
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2008
  8. DGUnreal

    DGUnreal Level Designer

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    BUF needs a "no installed - no post" rule.
    If you don't have UT3 installed and you aren't playing it, at least every now and then, you aren't allowed to post. That would get rid of many of the preceeding nay-sayers and prevent a lot of the thread rehashing. :)
     
  9. Armagon917

    Armagon917 TOAST

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    I disagree. I haven't had UT3 installed in almost two months. My posts aimed at UT3 have always been about ideas and what could have been better and not dwelling on what I didn't like about the game. Theres a big difference in bringing up the menu just because your pissed and bringing it up in a certain context like a response to the title of this thread.

    When it comes to gaming I have a great memory and if I'm not sure about something i will reinstall or not mention it. So I didn't like the game and its not installed but I think I have made good points as I did play it a hell of a lot when it first came out. I respectfully disagree. But I see that you mean the blatant nay sayers who haven't played the game ever right?
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2008
  10. Grobut

    Grobut Комиссар Гробут

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    It's nice to see the fanboy mob mentallity is still alive and well here at BuF, shine on you crazy diamonds! :lol:
     
  11. hal

    hal Dictator Staff Member

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    Which mentality is that? The one that loves everything about every game, or the one that hates everything about every game?

    We've got both. :rolleyes:
     
  12. Grobut

    Grobut Комиссар Гробут

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    I can think of about 2 or 3 people who have nothing but bad things to say about UT3, lots of us though actually do give it credit where credit is due, many commend it for the gameplay for instance even if they are not happy with the game as a whole.

    But people never read that, i have said alot of positive things about UT3, that i love the more grounded movement, that it feels more back to its roots, that i like the hoverboard and the orb, that i like War better than ONS, that weapons feel more powerfull, that it has an enforcer instead of that useless AR, that i love the new sniper, that i feel the gameplay as a whole is solid and that this part of the game they did right, but people will still tell you that i have never done anything but complain and that i have never uttered a single constructive word.. they just dont read the good stuff i guess.


    And you know what the really funny thing is? when i take one of my short breaks from here, i allways return to find the very same people who so vehemently oppose everything i say, verbally ripping UT3 a new one over exactly the same issues i have raised about the game.. i woulden't profess to understand the psychology behind this, but it certainly is ammusing to observe :lol:
     
  13. Sir_Brizz

    Sir_Brizz Administrator Staff Member

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    Most people are just sick of hearing about the same complaints over and over again.
     
  14. MonsOlympus

    MonsOlympus Active Member

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    Well the thing I find about a thread like this is most of the best discussion comes from coming up with new ideas completely not stuff people liked/didnt like about UT3. We can sit and talk on those topics all day and never reach the end of it and since its still going like 8 months after the game was released is proof of that.

    What we need for a thread like this is a positive feedback loop, personally I prefer to talk to people who can talk objectively on the game rather than people who just dribble the same ****. Those people seem to be better aware of the affects of what changing a certain part of the gameplay can do to a game or are more willing to discuss things even if they dont agree with you. Key point, its a discussion, you have to be able to see things from other peoples point of view without letting yours jade it.

    Ive been saying the same things for a long time now, like how UT3's cohesion is above that of the past 2 UT titles where the whole thing was a jumble of **** because there was faaar to many options. Playing the game exactly how you want to play it is alot of the reason why people mod, it shouldnt be on Epic to provide for all these sub niche's as I said. What Epic should be looking to do is take things to the next level in terms of new content and gameplay, that doesnt mean adding in everything we've seen in last UT titles into one game or anything because that would leave us in a similar boat to what we are in with UT3.

    Things like new gametypes are a perfect start, we dont need a rehash of assault, invasion or domination, we need some new spin on things like DGUnreal and I have suggested. The pure gametypes are always there as they have been and in UT3 they are the best they have been since UT! LMS, Mutant and TAM etc its obvious the community will pick them up and make them since its almost a copy/paste of the code so theres no need for Epic to cater to those niche's specifically as they have done in the past. I mean sure if Epic were to add certain other gametypes that would be kewl but I dont think its required.

    With Gears showing what Epic can do in terms of new gametypes I think its time for the community to be alittle open to some change. Gametypes like BR wernt bad but they could certainly use alittle more and conquest was sounding pretty awesome, I see alot of potential going into a UT4 but the community must give Epic alittle benefit of the doubt and let them work. Id much rather see Epic working on these new gametypes, variants, player classes and weapon sets etc than adding silly options to the UI like being able to set weapon throwing and weapon stay independently on the UI.

    Im not against adding weapon throwing but I do think that weapon stay off and weapon throwing should go hand in hand. Theres room for improving on how that works like perhaps swapping dropped weapons out or something instead, then again people will cry blue murder if I suggest things like that. Which is the biggest problem Epic face going into any UT game be it UT2k3, 2k4, UT3 or even UT4. We need alot less of this crying and more positive feedback, you can say you dont like something without it sounding like youre ripping Epic a new one and a prime way to soften the blow is to offer alternative ideas of your own. Its piss easy to say you dont like something and why you dont like it but that doesnt help when it comes to fixing potential problems.

    One of the things I thought contributed to the cohesiveness of UT3 was the fixed rosters myself, the fact that krall and necris could be found on similar teams. Where having ronin on that team would make totally no sense by going by the story, I personally think Epic should keep heading in that direction as its a small price to pay in terms of functionality for these cohesive feeling. Thats not to say I disagree with making custom rosters as long as they are faction restricted (you can mod if you need more perhaps) or not being able to adjust the bots AI alittle. Then again a better option could be to provide people with a custom bot creator instead of them editing the default ones and then being able to create rosters from there, again faction limited.

    If theres more tourney like characters in this possible UT4 then it could make more sense to have more mixed bot rosters with the faction limited ones which tie to the story. In 2k4 could we even select the single player bot rosters for use in instant action?
     
  15. Grobut

    Grobut Комиссар Гробут

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    Do you even read my posts Mons? actually.. last page you said you didn't so scratch that.

    In the off chance that you will actually read this one, let me just make something very clear, i do not post unless i have something to bring to the table, and i post constructive observations and ideas quite often, the only times i do not is when i have to reply to other people here who ask me to defend my opinion or explain it, and since people only seem to do that when i am discussing things about UT3 i am not terribly fond of, that does tend to entail opinions that some people do not like or find "negative", but there's not a whole lot i can do about that now is there? the same people would accuse me of "trolling" or not having anything to back up what i say if i didn't respond, so i'm stuck between a rock and a hard place here.

    As for the rest, why must UT3's story be forced on people? alot of us don't really find it all that engaging, and there is nothing preventing the "cohesion" you talk about whilst still giving people choice (which would also greatly aid the game's use with mods of all kinds), for thouse who want to play factions they could just choose X number of bots and set Faction Red and Faction Blue to what they want and get what they want, and then there could be a "Custom Bot Roster" tab with drag and drop bots for red and blue team (prefably with avatar pics so you can see what you're doing, thats just good design) that would let thouse of us who want to play differently do that, there could also easilly be a checkbox that would enable or disable custom starting orders for bots, there really is no reason to draw a line in the sand and say "Group Y can get what they want, but you guys in Group X cannot", UT3 could easilly allow both to be happy.
    And that simple idea could apply to alot of things, this is a PC game, we have a mouse, we could easilly use tabs to expand on many options and edit them, and there could easilly be a checkbox that chooses between using standard or modified values.

    And would a simple checkbox to enable or disable a feature like Brightskins really destroy cohesion? or would it just let players make a very simple choice? why force people's hand here? what possible good does that do? it just scares away the players that are not big fans of that feature.

    There's a whole bunch of thease little things (but ofcourse they all add up), and most of them are not big complicated things, they are small things that would just need a checkbox or variable in the UI, they are not even things that would take huge amounts of time to develop, i really don't see how allowing us to manipulate thease little things (or not) breaks cohesion, or how it is worth angering alot of fans by removing them, how is that a worthwhile outcome? and how would including them break the game for you?


    Gametypes are a different matter though, as thouse do require alot of development, they needs maps, and on the whole, they are exactly the sort of thing the modding community can realistically add to the game (the UI and other basic fundamentals of the game is much more problematic for modding).
     
  16. MonsOlympus

    MonsOlympus Active Member

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    Well brightskins are only apparent in team gamemodes and I actually dont like them but I see a flaw in UT3's gameplay without them turned on as well. See I find some people get caught up in what they want to much to realize theres problems associated with what they prefer etc. Now for eg, if I play as ronin and we have a DM match on Deimos the ronin characters have natural camouflage on that map because of the red post processing volumes.

    What Im saying is that you cant please all people all of the time, that simply isnt up to Epic to do, they should be out to make the best UT game they can regardless of what people think about it. UT2k3 might not have been popular with some people but others liked it, same for UC2 or 2k4 thats my point. Its not about forcing people because to put it simply no one forced you to buy this game or is forcing you to buy any other UT games in the future.

    Its not a matter of what I want, its a question of where Epic should be looking for future UT titles from a post UT3 perspective. We cant just go on assuming 2k4 was the last UT game like UT3 was some kind of myth, just like UC2 or 2k3 are also Unreal titles. We arnt discussing what Epic can add to UT3 we are talking about a next game in the franchise and for me what Epic did with 2k3->2k4 was just bad, the best thing about it was the new gametypes. The new characters, the complete UI and replication overhaul etc which ended up making it its own game while also including the previous one. I just dont want to see that happen again, 2k4 was the biggest jumble of **** I ever did see I dont care if it gave everyone all the options they could hope for because of of those options wernt stable and brought about exploits, sure UT2k3 had its fair share of exploits also but UT3 is alot more solid in that respect.

    You talk about angering alot of fans by removing all these little things but if there really was that many of you, I wouldnt have to hear you and acouple of others say the same things time after time. Can we please get over it and discussing moving forward with the franchise instead of dwelling on what "you" dont like about UT3 :cool:

    Gametypes might take alot to add but you sure as hell cant tell me DM, CTF etc took Epic a long time to code. It would have been porting old code as they have done for every UT title to date, they arnt new, they dont even have 100% new maps, now sure its not an easy task making maps in UE3 Im sure so Im not trying to discount that but if 2k4 showed us UT players one thing its that UT can expand and still be successful. I very much doubt it was all those little things that made it the success it was, its the fact there was alot of "new" big things and coupled with those little things brought more to the table.

    What I would like to see from people is new innovative suggestions instead of saying UT2k4 has X, UT3 should have X for eg or say the "lets split CTF and VCTF" crew or the "Instagib should be its own gametype" crew. This is enough of a niche game as it is so I think appealing to people outside of the franchise is just as important as appealing to those people who like feature X. Thats not to say anyone is unimportant its just for developers they have to prioritize and their priorities will differ greatly to yours.

    For eg, the midgame menu is far from perfect for online or offline play there could be options to addbots, switch maps and all other kinds of goodies. Not to mention the commands menu. Im not going to repeat what Ive said a few times already but I simply think this "me me me" attitude of some people stinks. Everything I suggest isnt for me, I dont remember saying I prefer PvE but I sure as hell made a suggestion that could make UT appeal to those types of gamers. You get where Im coming from? Its not about taking stuff away from you like its your civil liberty to pretty much create a game within a game because simply Epic gives us that with mod tools anyways.

    So yes, problems with UT3 I would rather you direct those towards Epic. They sure do read these forums but I would like to hear something new from you grobut, you obviously have some clue but lets not just do the ole game X has feature X so game Y should have feature X. Lets do things like oh UT3 shoulda added a campaign of warfare mode, lets talk big, lets think big. Small things can come later and if Epic dont add them, well sure you have every right to be alittle miffed about it but taking it out on us by being a broken record is getting old. I thought I made this clear before but hey!

    Lets just talk as if Epic arnt even here and we have control over the fate of the next UT game instead. What do we really want to see? What do we really want out of UT4? If the biggest thing you can think of is being able to setup custom bot rosters we are sure in for the worse UT game since well, you name it :lol:

    But yes you'll have to excuse me if I think ronin, ironguard, a krall and a necris on one team is alittle silly especially with the UT mentality of, if it moves shoot it, sure the bots have different skills slightly but I suggested and alternative, then suddenly its all doom and gloom again like my suggestion is going to change your life so dramatically.
     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2008
  17. Trynant

    Trynant Manic Brawler

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    In risk of beating a dead horse...

    Hmm, it's been a while since I've posted anything in this forum. Firstly because I usually am horrified by the level of flames and idiocy that are exhibited in far too many posts; secondly I haven't played UT3 in months. It just stopped being fun for me, for a multitude of small reasons. But now I'm starting to crave the insane action again and from the looks of it the levels of flames and idiocy have declined to a rate that doesn't make my eyes bleed. So hey, here's my thoughts on the idea of a 2k3 -> 2k4 plan, what UT3 can do in the future, and what I think will happen.

    I don't approve of doing anything as drastic as making a completely new game that replaces UT3. Epic put an amazing amount of effort into making the game (despite what some people have been saying). To remake the game, rather to overwrite the game, would require all this effort again that could be going into other projects, or more support for UT3. It would require even more effort if Epic wants to drastically alter the gameplay and yet keep it all compatible with UT3. They might as well just make a new game instead.

    Furthermore, it was possible to do this revamp with UT2kx, but expecting the same thing to happen again with technology that requires substantially more effort to create quality material is not reasonable.

    The future for UT3 shouldn't be its annihilation in lieu of some hasty, kitchen-sink reworking. It should be in more patching, including an overhaul of the UI (which they are still working on), and more bonus content. Mapping competitions such as the MSUC are a great idea and I applaud Epic for making such an investment for their game. Keep pulling those mapmakers into the loop! Get more content coming into the game and start advertising it.

    Which brings me to another thing I think would help UT3. Advertising. Place some ads on gaming websites, letting people know the game is out and still kicking. Even after 8 months I still think there's an audience that will play, or at least map, UT3 if they start seeing and hearing positive things about the game. There are positive things about the game that if exploited more would make it worth a purchase for a newcomer. It has the most intense, frenetic gameplay of any shooter in this generation; there are hundreds of user-created maps, mods and characters to be obtained; and it has the continued support of its developers and community. Make people know there's some absolutely awesome things about this game that need mention before you start saying what is not so great.

    There are great, absolutely great things about this game. Even the worst critics can find something they enjoy about the game, even if it's just the UT3 editor. What Epic should do, and I hope they are, is continue to add support to the good parts of the game. Highlight maps that are especially awesome, make frequent headlines about the game, make a community website or gloriously advertise fansites that have a great community (maybe something like Beyond Unreal ;)). Give people new topics to talk about. Again, the MSUC is a great example of how Epic can drive community participation and I'm glad we have competitions like these to promote the game and the people that are supporting it.

    And finally, Epic should do what it's famous for: content. More maps, more mods, more characters, more more more. Keep breathing life into the game. Add new things. New is good. I personally don't find there to be enough new things in UT3 out of the box by itself, and more new things coming into the game the better.

    For that matter, the biggest "out of the box idea" that I could see Epic doing is adding a new gametype for UT3. My vote would be for an actual singleplayer gametype with maps exclusively designed for it. And make it co-op! To me, that is far more new than Warfare (a replacement for Assault and Onslaught) or Vehicle CTF (something that was technically already there and eventually implemented by the community). I know I'd play an online cooperative game mode made by Epic. In fact, I already have :), it was great.

    All of these new ideas would go great for a Editor's Choice Edition of the game.

    So there's my wall of text for this thread. I hope it's not too TL;DR and doesn't tread over too much old ground. UT3 is a good game that I want to be able to play again by the beginning of next month. And I'll be playing with a lot more maps than I started out with :)
     
  18. Plutonia_Experi

    Plutonia_Experi New Member

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  19. hal

    hal Dictator Staff Member

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    That's rude.
     
  20. MonsOlympus

    MonsOlympus Active Member

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    Yeah thats what Id be thinking Tyrnant, in working with cohesion in mind any new UT game on UE3 is going to be somewhat compatible already. Ive had pieces of code from 2k4 that required less work getting them into UT3 than some of the pieces of code I had to change going from 2k3->2k4.

    Anyways, a complete UI overhaul is what we got going from 2k3->2k4 also and for me 2k3's wasnt that bad. Sure the 2k4 one had its bonus' but the content that came with that and the ECE really stuck out like dogs balls against the 2k3 stuff. This is why I think cohesion is important especially if there is to be another UT game, thats the if though. What id like to see, well we dont really need remake weapon models at all because I think thats one area where UT3 really shines over past UT games, but a continuation not a complete rework that changes everything including the style of the art. Thats not to say Epic cant expand on themes or introduce new ones but I think it would be best to try and make it fit in with what they currently have unlike what 2k4 did.

    I sure hope Epic continues the support and updates for UT3 but I think a complete UI overhaul is alittle much for it at this point. You have to consider that theres probably only a few people on a support team theres no longer the full force like there would have been when UT3 was in production. For another title its possible since the man power is there, for a new game Id be looking at a year past Gears 2 release perhaps even more, theres nothing stopping Epic including all UT3 stuff like they have done in the past but the yearly thing was alittle much.

    Right now for UT3, I wouldnt expect miracles, Epic could certainly be working on a revamped UI but if they havent started already its going to be a long time before we see it. There is more important things like gameplay bugs so Im sure Epic will get to other things eventually it just depends on their priority, when I look at the lists people come up with for each patch the bugs alone are long enough as soon as you add features people want it almost trebles in size because we got what people see as priority features then less important features. It must be tricky for Epic to balance everything, Gears, Gears 2 and UT3 really are their first attempts to keep the ball rolling on the 2 team system so perhaps they'll perfect that now with Gears 2 being worked on and going into UT4 maybe.

    I have plenty of faith in Epic and nothing they have done to date has phased that one bit, they show me time after time they can raise the bar. Its not about dwelling on what wasnt included but how well what they did include works, you can certainly see they are maturing and perfecting systems to work towards bringing us higher quality. I just think UT3 was perhaps before its time, it wouldnt be the first time its happened but I see the potential the game has to be built upon towards something much greater. It wont be a simple rework like 2k4 was because UT3 is a tonne more solid than 2k3 was, we all know to build a house you need a solid foundation so no matter what your personal opinions on UT3 I think the franchise is in the best position its been in since a day before UT2k3 was released :cool:

    Dont get me wrong, theres alot of things I like about 2k3 and things it brought to the table. It might not have been as close to UT as UT3 is but some of the new stuff is cool, it certainly had its fair share of problems and its a pretty even split across gameplay exploits and scaling. Theres more wrong with it but the title on its own without the 2k4 stuff is pretty cohesive, perhaps not as much as something like UC2 or UT3 but its there. The 2k4 stuff on its own certainly shares some similarities in style and the scaling was fixed alittle but that was difficult to do, with UT3 going into UT4 thats alot less of a problem, instead we have things like what? Changing the linkgun so the projectiles dont come out from between peoples eyes, that could also be a fix in a patch.

    Its not like the armour system needs to be reworked yet again or as I said the weapons, to add new stuff though we'd be looking at a new title theres simply too much Epic could do that goes out of reach of patches. The community is certainly still here, the mod community is hard at work, I think the competition for the best DM map shows that theres plenty more that can and will be done by the community in the future. What Epic I think needs to do is steer away from what the community, can and probably will do themselves, into new territory, not to say the community wont come up with plenty of new and kewl stuff but not everyone strives to extend UT3 by adding more UT flavour. Some people just have their own art styles and ideas they want to add to the mix so not all of the content and gameplay from the community is going to add to the cohesion of the UT universe, the only people who can really do it and do it right is Epic :)

    One of the biggest things for a new UT game would be compatibility especially from a modders perspective. Now the problem here is UT3 became its own branch of code and now UE3 is up at higher versions with what they are using for Gears 2, what the community would probably like is for things to stay the same so its easier to port things across. I can certainly sympathize with that point of view but perhaps the version of UE3 in UT3 is alittle messy, maybe the newer version is much more solid problem with that again I guess is Epic will have to spend time porting UT3 to this new version. Dunno if it would be a huge task or not but would a new UT game be better for it?

    How much would it do in terms of additional functionality and features so Epic could raise the bar yet again, sure theres always the eye candy but theres definitely a big pro and cons discussion in all of that. Would it be worth it or could Epic keep the UT3 branch alive and continue to push it. Who knows, Id certainly like to see what the next version of UE3 is like, itd suck if I have to rework some of my code but as going from 2k3->2k4->UT3 it might just be worth it. One thing I do know for sure and that is for mappers there should be an easy way to port maps from UT3 to this "UT4" perhaps even allowing the packages to maintain compatibility.
     

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