Should all maps have screenshots?

[Twrecks]

<deaf-n-blind guy>
Should a map be required to have a preview image in the map menu?
I mean like, OMFG, if I'm playing online I never see it!
Why take the time to finish anything when you are giving it away anyways. It already takes so much time to map, why burden mappers with things like screenshots, bot pathing, music, etc...

 

[NeoNite]

One day an UT game will have map preview images which you can explore.
3D shots. You simply click them with your mouse, and explore. Look up.. ooooh what a nice skybox... look down... is that a nali turd... look to the left... awww what a nice texture.. look to the right...

Well, look to the right...

 

[IndySkyz]

Well from the maps I have seen by you, I wish they didn't have a sreenshot.

Just kidding, but I wasn't saying you shouldn't botpath a map, what I tried to say is some maps that are meant to play a certain way are almost impossible to make bots play even close to good, if the intent of that maps for for online play then I dont see any reason why it needs paths or the idea of no health should be changed so you can use some viles to get them to go over here.

I guess I am bias because I dont think the bots beong in UT at all, first off the game was made for multi-player only, and a bot is not a player, the code put in for the bots AI is what allowed for the hackers to make aimbots and radars, so IMO leave the bots to games like Unreal and Unreal2 and make a true MP UT where it pits human vs human in lan or online games. Then you wouldn't need botpaths at all.

PS, why do some people just like to stir the pot, first Charon and now Twrecks, for all I know they are the same dude.

 

[Twrecks]

X3D files have that ability (explore/examine)
They are dependant on being able to access textures, otherwise the file size is relatively small (similar to 3ds/obj).
X3D promises to replace VRML files for dynamic viewing online, well see.

As to UT being MP only... uh no. Without the SP ladder, it certainly would have not sold the volume or garnered the support it recieved. Bots playing well is why UT is great, great maps have great Bot support. If you can't tell if you are playing against the computer or a Bot, the mapper did an excellent job.

I think it's absurd to limit any map by pidgeon holing it to a particlular segment of the ciommunity. If that is the intent, find a dedicated fansite to that gametype and keep it there.

 

[IndySkyz]

well if you feel like you are playing a human, even against a godlike bot, then I feel sorry for you and you should think about sticking to games like tetris. Any good player knows that even a god bot plays like a stupid bot, sure the aim is godlike but thats all they do stupid stuff that a smart human would not, plus wtf do you want the codes for an aimbot built into the game, would it really be so hard to have an online only and a SP versions of the game? I love playing UT online against real people but because of the bot support I can;t even do that because most humans nowadays get an aimbot or radar and its just like playing a bot.

IMO if any FPS game wants to be as huge as UT once was they need to forget about the fancy double jump stuff and all the oh so cool looking graphics and concentrate on making a game that really is cheater proof.

DM, and CTF are human vs human games meant to be played either online or on a lan, if you want to shoot monsters or find the gold key there are many other games for that, why taint a great multi-player game with stupid bots?

Oh and you really can't be serious about the virtual SS, lets get real do you really need to be able to walk into the SS to see the map, just play the f****** game and see the map, the things some people think would make a game better boggles my mind.

 

[NeoNite]

As to UT being MP only... uh no. Without the SP ladder, it certainly would have not sold the volume or garnered the support it recieved. Bots playing well is why UT is great, great maps have great Bot support. If you can't tell if you are playing against the computer or a Bot, the mapper did an excellent job.

Quoted for truth.

Indyskyz, honestly, UT just wouldn't have been the same without the "stoopid bots".

Not everyone who has bought/plans on buying the game, intended/intends to play online 24/7.

If there hadn't been any botsupport out of the box for UT, I probably would've neglected buying the game. Maybe I would've waited for a thirdparty mod which would've introduced bots to UT .. BUT.. it wouldn't have been the same.

Far from it.

Besides, online is so limited. Most of the times you see the same maps, in my case I never liked the gamespeed/aircontrol always too slow, same boring mutators...same old same old online.

Let's not forget all the extras. Skins, models, voicepacks. Tons of mutators/mods. The chance you'll be able to use them online is very small, to almost non existant.

Modify your bots every once in a while, and the fun never stops.

(Another reason why I love bot support in a good MP FPS)

 

[IndySkyz]

Well like i said you could easily make two version and when you buy the game you get both, one for home play with bots and all kinds of extra goodies, and one for online human v human competition, sure you wont be able to join a server and play a bot, but if you want to play a friend or other human foe the bot aint gonna cut it anyway, and the hope that a version without support for a computer bot might possible stop or reduce the ability for hackers to ruin the true experience would make it all worth it to me.

I'm sure you do know that there are many online servers running all kinds of mods, custom models, skins and so on and so on, with high speed internet and the redirect ability you can play all your crazy stuff online with other people and not bots, seriously dude bots are weak in a multi-player game, and I think you might be suprised at the number of people who would buy a game for the human vs human only factor, if the gameplay is there as it was with UT and you have real opponents to play with, why wouldn't you buy it?

 

[ReD_Fist]

A screenshot it like a title,ya just gotta have one.

 

[Reciprocity]

Because you're still plagued by cheap 56k. As much as I enjoy gaming, I'm not going to shell out some more precious dough just to go online at a decent speed.

 

[NeoNite]

Well like i said you could easily make two version and when you buy the game you get both, one for home play with bots and all kinds of extra goodies, and one for online human v human competition, sure you wont be able to join a server and play a bot, but if you want to play a friend or other human foe the bot aint gonna cut it anyway, and the hope that a version without support for a computer bot might possible stop or reduce the ability for hackers to ruin the true experience would make it all worth it to me.

I'm sure you do know that there are many online servers running all kinds of mods, custom models, skins and so on and so on, with high speed internet and the redirect ability you can play all your crazy stuff online with other people and not bots, seriously dude bots are weak in a multi-player game, and I think you might be suprised at the number of people who would buy a game for the human vs human only factor, if the gameplay is there as it was with UT and you have real opponents to play with, why wouldn't you buy it?

Very, very weird post.
Had I been new to UT, you could've fooled me with these ramblings but now...
>_<
Just gives me a headache.

 

[Twrecks]

I feel sorry for you

Well, that's all I'am looking for is symapathy. So you should understand why Single Player support is vital to the success of a game. It's for the lonely peolple out there playing with themselves in a corner of their house, enjoying the challenge of defeating a computer because they lack the skill to compete with 1337 low pingers.

BTW, Unreal started as a First Person Monster shooter/puzzle game, MultiPlayer was added... Exploiting code/cheating is everywhere, even in SP. Game companies do concern themselves with it, and many ppl have servers that have anti-cheat deamons running. Find them, enjoy the game.

 

[ReD_Fist]

quake1 had no bots, it was played and played and played online, wich spured UT or sweeny and epic to jump into the scene.

And now quake4 says my cpu needs SSE (the demo) so they loose this big all time fann, unfortunatly.
Doom3 also a dissapointment,I even seen a rental server place wich for some reason doom3 was 12bucks a head compared to 6bucks for ut04.
I mean are they trying to make "id" fail?
But eitherway the online usage for both those games won't depend on bots.

But I like my bots, they are cool man,speaking of, I was thinking on a sever when your talking or not moving they or someone should make your charactor light up a cigarette and have a nice glow to the ash for campers hehe, or when your typing ingame chat.

 

[Twrecks]

I think this thread needs to be merged with the Bot Support thread...

 

[IndySkyz]

Quote:
Originally Posted by IndySkyz
Well like i said you could easily make two version and when you buy the game you get both, one for home play with bots and all kinds of extra goodies, and one for online human v human competition, sure you wont be able to join a server and play a bot, but if you want to play a friend or other human foe the bot aint gonna cut it anyway, and the hope that a version without support for a computer bot might possible stop or reduce the ability for hackers to ruin the true experience would make it all worth it to me.

I'm sure you do know that there are many online servers running all kinds of mods, custom models, skins and so on and so on, with high speed internet and the redirect ability you can play all your crazy stuff online with other people and not bots, seriously dude bots are weak in a multi-player game, and I think you might be suprised at the number of people who would buy a game for the human vs human only factor, if the gameplay is there as it was with UT and you have real opponents to play with, why wouldn't you buy it?

Very, very weird post.
Had I been new to UT, you could've fooled me with these ramblings but now...
>_<
Just gives me a headache.

Please explain yourself, I'm not seeing what is Very,very wierd? and I'm also not trying to FOOL anyone. (I am very,very curious to hear this one)

To Twrecks all I can say is you make me laff, when you add bot support to a game like UT you are making it SP or don't you get that, and as for anti-cheat stuff you must be joking, all CSHP and PURES and even UTDCC have been hacked and hacked again, just a waste of time really.
Oh and BTW you do see a SS of the running map in the online servers menu, guess you aint played online, LMAO.

 

[Maxx]

previews should not be left out IMO

 

[Twrecks]

when you add bot support to a game like UT you are making it SP or don't you get that

BTW, Unreal started as a First Person Monster shooter/puzzle game, MultiPlayer was added...

Actually it was there other way round.

, and as for anti-cheat stuff you must be joking, all CSHP and PURES and even UTDCC have been hacked and hacked again, just a waste of time really.

You think removing Bot support would stop this?

Oh and BTW you do see a SS of the running map in the online servers menu, guess you aint played online, LMAO.

OMFG, if I'm playing online I never see it!

Laugh all you want, guess you missed the intended sarcasm of this thread. I wonder if you feel it's okay to litter public streets? Because dumping garbage maps on servers and sites like NaliCity is a disregard for the community.

 

[NeoNite]

Online is dominated by crap mutators. Crap maps. People with crappy attituddes. (No, it's not all bad but still...)

Bots, as stupid as they might be, ALWAYS play the game. ALWAYS. They never cheat, they never mess around. They'll work great when playing a well coded mod/mutator.

Sure, not all people are smacktards online. I've met interesting fraggers, people willing to play as a team etc. But far too many smacktards as well.
Yeah, yeah it's "part off the experience"...You see plenty in 4 years time.

Bots play the game, and they'll never do otherwise. It's a feature I've always loved seeing being part of MP based game. It relieves the boredom, imho.
They're a great addition, and shouldn't be left out. ever.

Besides, not everyone can play online 24/7.
There are still plenty of people playing on 56K.
There are many casual gamers.

These people benefit a lot from bots.

 

[Hourences]

I bought UT 6 years ago because it had bots. If it wouldnt have had bots I would prolly have never bought it, or much later..

Bots are an essential part of the game, and should be of any game
They also enabled a large ammount of mods to function or function much better.

 

[IndySkyz]

Its funny to me how you guys always seem to side step replying to what I say. Yes multi-player was added to Unreal and it was SP before MP, but I thought we were talking about UT(UnrealTournament) the stand alone Multi-player game? guess I was wrong. I ask why it would be impossible to have two versions of the game one online one home version, but again you never address that. You asked "do you think removing bot support would stop cheaters?" well stop them no but make it much harder yes, and many other things could be done to stop things or make them harder, adding bot support just adds one more ez way for hackers to run the competetion, which is what UT is all about, this is no puzzle maze kill the monsters find the keys beat the Lord of Darkness game, its all about competetion and helping people cheat by making it ez for them just seems wrong to me.

Also I ask NeoNite to explain what he means about my post being wierd and that is side steped.

And yes I got your sarcasim about the SS, guess you didn't get mine

 

[NeoNite]

It would just create a lot of unnessecary work and absorb precious time, my guess...
Creating two seperate versions, for a group of people who want bots excluded out of the online experience no matter what...

Either bots are an integral part of the game, or they're left out (kwake 4).
I'm not even sure what you want would work...

Since you like playing online, don't you have at least a favourite server? A private server, perhaps? With cool people, no hax whatever?

And the fact that Quake had no bots shipped, doesn't bother me. Because you can't compare Quake to UT. UT offers a lot more creativity in more departments than Quake does. (Yes, I do know about the many mods for Q)
If it comes to the necessity of having bots in quake/UT, it's like comparing a turd to a diamond. imho.