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Scope/Ironsight Accuracy

Discussion in 'General Infiltration Discussion' started by Falke, Dec 9, 2003.

  1. Tiffy

    Tiffy Back to champion the L85

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    Sorry Beppo, what I ment to say was this may be a feature that needs looking at. But probably not as like I said, if you shoot properly with control it feels right.
     
  2. randomas

    randomas New Member

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    Erm lol @Beppo :D

    One thing i tried on the shooting range was the scopes on the PSG1 and robar and from a prone stance with controled breathing I could not get a shot on target at 500m. Other than what this sais about my aim (which I can agree tends to be pathetic). Could you explain the bulletdrop and spread algorithms to me. Personally I found the robar to be quite imprecise on the range while the PSG1 faired much better. Is this just me in need for parkinson medication or is it meant to be that way?

    TIA

    In case I hadn't said it yet what you achieved with 2.9 is incredible!
     
  3. Demosthanese

    Demosthanese .

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    Falke, when on irons, the front and rear sights move independantly, so though it
    may seem like it's pointed at the near the center of the target, it is actually
    pointed at the edges. With a scope, the crosshair allways points to where the
    weapon is pointed.
     
  4. Vega-don

    Vega-don arreté pour detention de tomate prohibée

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    When i shot in infiltration with a non scoped weapon , i NEVER hold breath, and i ALWAYS get a great accuracy at long ranges (long range = all accross the tuscany map for example) . (80% of my shots hit the target if im not underfire when i shoot)

    .so if i understood it rigth , the scoped weapons are correct in game , but the iron sights weapons doesn't feature the same misalignement.. i remember what yurch did with misalignement. that was great. oh sudently i feel the need of a yurch muttie (me cries ) :D

    its not to blame inf i love it beppo ;)
     
  5. yurch

    yurch Swinging the clue-by-four

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    Reduced sensitivity while scoped is already in inf to some extent. It's even a basic UT function of it's sniper rifle.

    And before anyone else jumps on Falke, he is right. The total angular effect is in fact higher with a scope in inf. That means the weapon's bob causes more varience over a target with the scope attached. This is a real varience, and has nothing to do with the percieved amplification of the varience.
     
  6. TOAD

    TOAD One team...one life...one chance

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    Yurch speaks the truth.

    Also, I have to agree that the precision of the sniper rifles is a joke. Keep in mind that the grouping you're getting at the long distance range can be deceiving because the target silhouette is atleast 4x bigger than that of a normal person.
     
  7. Psychomorph

    Psychomorph  

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    I think, the bobbing in scopeview is ok (maybe little bit too high), but the holded breath is definitely too good, It´s quite hard to hold breath without any movement (bobbing), you ever have hard bobbing with scope. Try to shoot with a sniperrifle (heavy) on 100m, NO CHANCE for good shots. Using scopes... posture and distance are very important.
    For ironsight it´s not that important, cuz you have better view and can reaim better (faster) and give more shots. It´s not that precisely, but you haven´t this huge "optical" bobbing as with scopes. By the way, I think the ironsights in INF are way to precisely. Aiming with a battlerifle isn´t that easy on 100m while standing (more after some running, waling).

    I personally ever had my problems useing INF ironsight (but ever loved it). It doesn´t really give you the feel of aiming with metal. The freeaim at stronger aim (holded breath) is too strong and uncomfortable. The weapons are too small (too far from the eye), the sights are too small, the diopter has not it´s effect (M16). Hope the INF team will improove that, then ironsight aiming will have higher bobbing but will make the precision of the weapons more "explanationable".
     
  8. randomas

    randomas New Member

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    Ok I went and retested this just to be sure. I think it has more to do with the zeroing of the rifle. What range are the sniper rifle scopes zeroed on? The precision seems to get better th closer you get to the 500m mark. Between 200 and 400m it's acually not very good but all shots were above target so they fall with distance. even though there is also some sideways offset.
     
  9. Rostam

    Rostam PSN: Rostam_

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    I don't know if it has been said already or not, but the distance between the front and back of a scope is a whole lot smaller than front and back sights. Meaning that is alot easier to misalign the thing and totally miss.

    That's why you should try to take the exact same position over and over again when sharpshooting, only then can you zero the rifle. It's translated perfectly in game.
     
  10. randomas

    randomas New Member

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    Does that mean the rifle points at different places in the aiming grid according to where the reticle is on screen?
     
  11. Psychomorph

    Psychomorph  

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    That´s right.
     
  12. Beppo

    Beppo Infiltration Lead-Programmer

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    Learn how to aim with the scopes... you can get a so tight grouping that it is hard to tell if it was one or several shots that hit the spot. Practice is the key here.

    @yurch, yepp as said in my post #16 already... wasn't read by many it seems...

    @rest ... the scoped version of a weapon in INF is a totally different weapon. It is using its own values for bobing aso. Seems some here haven't actually read my post #16 here.

    Beppo
     
  13. Tiffy

    Tiffy Back to champion the L85

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    Not only that Beppo it would seem some don't even know the basics of marksmanship.

    First off I'm going to reiterate, when shooting properly with breath control (I don't shot any other way) I find the feel of both the Scopes and Iron Sights to be right. The accuracy of scope can't be faulted and if you want eveidence ask Saladin what sort of ranges I was one shot killing him over. We're talking 1/2 to 3/4 the length of Arabiebay XL (thing thats the map).

    (sorry Rostram for picking your post but it was the shortest).

    The secret to shooting success is repeatability. This is with iron sights or scopes makes no difference.

    The first thing is your hold on the weapon and your position must be firm enough to support then weapon.

    It must point naturally at the target with no forcing of the aim or body to achieve this.

    Sight alignment and picture MUST be correct.

    The shoot is sqeezed off with out disturbing the firing position.

    (And the one it took me years to finally understand properly)
    The follow through. Don't disturb the position until the round has had time to exit the barrel. This measn don't let go the trigger, don't lift your head to get a better view of the impact and don't try and force the rifle to remain still and on target.

    Sight alignment with a sight unit like the SUSAT or (I presume) ACOG is easy because there is only one element to put onto the target. If you can see the target and crosshairs (pointer in a SUSAT) and the aiming part of the sight is on hte target then its right. Proper sniper scopes are less tollerant of parallax errors where your head is in the wrong position but there pretty much the same. Iron sights you have to put the tip of the foresight into the centre of the rear sight appeture and have all that lineup on the target too. Quite complex really but the human eye is a marvalious tool for doing things like that.

    I'm going to say it again. The sights feel right when used correctly in INF. I accept Beppos point about the difference between scoped and iron sighted weapons and bobbing etc. In fact I actually think that its too easy to hit targets at range with the iron sights as it stands but I can live with that.
     
  14. M00ndancer

    M00ndancer Airsoft Player & Inf fanatic [AFA]

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    I just read this thread and I agree with Tiffy. Its almost too easy to hit with the iron.
    Not that I´m an marksman at all but anyway. The only wish I have, is that I can have an Reddot 2X on any weapon, like the famas.

    "I'm going to say it again. The sights feel right when used correctly in INF. I accept Beppos point about the difference between scoped and iron sighted weapons and bobbing etc. In fact I actually think that its too easy to hit targets at range with the iron sights as it stands but I can live with that."
     
  15. Lasersailor184

    Lasersailor184 The_Punisher

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    Except for it being easy to do this, I guess you're right.

    Real snipers control breathing, movement and everything else in their world. They have the weapon so tight on them that it's practically a third appendage. They can control breathing and movements up until the point where it's only the Heart Beat that's moving the gun.
     
  16. })FA|Snake

    })FA|Snake New Member

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    tiffy, when talking about it being too easy to hit with iron sights at range do keep in mind the distances in INF are decieving, a "long" shot in INF is normal engagement range IRL

    not saying your wrong just wanted to make sure you're putting that in the equation
     
  17. Tiffy

    Tiffy Back to champion the L85

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    I am.

    Ranges are now getting out to around 300m with a perceived range approaching 500m. Still practicle experience of what the 'average' soldier can do with a rifle on the ranges and how that changes in combat as well as knowing what I can do (and I was an exceptionally good shot in my time) ells me things are too easy.

    The 'average' soldier can't hit a moving target at ranges much beyond 100m and will get about 80% of shots on a man-sized target at 300m on the ranges. Put that to a combat situation and he'd be lucky to hit a running, aware target at 50m and will score about 20% of shots on target at 300m if he can even see the blasted target.

    You all have it easy in INF and I'm talking from practical experiance.

    BTW in a desert environment the average engagement range is 100m, move to a temperate zone battle field and thats dropping to about 75m. Move into wooded or FIBUA and the range is dropping again to 30-50m and in dense jungle the AVERAGE engagement range is just 5m.

    Ranges in INF are long now......
     
  18. Gnam

    Gnam Member

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    Maybe it's just me, but I find that it's actually easier to do long range shots with iron sights. In most cases, I don't control my breathing much if at all when shooting iron sights, and I can still nail a bot within 3 quick shots from 100-200 meters or so (far enough that the targets body is of similar size in my view to the front sight post, or smaller). With a scope, I find that if I don't control my breathing and just point and fire I have a hard time hitting anything, the crosshair's constanly swining in a figure 8 around the target. Of course, if you use controlled breathing, or simply just wait for the bob to reach an apex either up or down where it's almost stoped it's simple, but I rarely find myself doing this with irons and I still hit pretty considently.

    I guess it's like this: with irons, you can typically just point your gun at the target, get him somwhere well inside the circle of the back sights, and fire off several rounds. Within 3 or 4 shots, chances are you hit him atleast once. With an ACOG, simply positioning the somewhere near the center of the circle and lighting off 4 rounds will rarely do the trick.
     
  19. Paskunx

    Paskunx New Member

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    just experimented a bit on shootin range.

    Dont worry about acog bobbing, since in inf barrel doesnt point at the direction that crosshairs indicate (yea.), unless in breath control mode (altfire held).

    One thing bothers me: hipped weapon doesnt bob at all (well, almost) even though animations show weapon shaking and turning. I scored some decent groupings firing weapon hipped using a LAM. Dont know if it is a feature or not, but think it could be possibly vulnerable to exploitation.

    I think aiming in Infiltration is damn far from being perfect, but hey, its still the best ive ever seen.
     
  20. keihaswarrior

    keihaswarrior New Member

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    Ya, the crosshairs in the scopes don't point where the gun shoots, making it very hard to hit without breath control. Also, there appears to be little or no bob when hipped.
     

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