I never understood how someone could get anything out of a game by cheating.....there is no challenge to it.
Sad day for all the INF players.
- Thread starter TheSniper
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Ah a clientside modification throught he use of UWindow. Ok, that's easy, the .int file tells it to add class CDDecals menu item to the mod menu listing. Then it simply enters a loop through the use of its Tick function in the .u
I guess I see how you would do it now. Just subclass the TMale1 class to include some enhanced bot AI, and set it up through the mod menu...
OK, this conversation is over now. Thank you
I guess I see how you would do it now. Just subclass the TMale1 class to include some enhanced bot AI, and set it up through the mod menu...
OK, this conversation is over now. Thank you
Reality Check
I think many people in this thread need a serious reality check. I'll try to make this as clear as possible.
1: People cheat playing infiltration online.
2: You cannot stop cheaters.
3: CSHP does not stop aimbots.
Now let me explain. People have been cheating in online INF matches since day 1. People still cheat now. Anyone who denies this is either a cheater themselves or has no knowledge of such things and refuses to believe something even if they see it for themselves. People will ALWAYS cheat. Some people replied as if Beppo is going to stop all cheating. It will not happen. I'm sure he's a very good coder but from his own post he seems to know little about how cheats work (no offense). Besides, I highly doubt he would be the one to solve the problem if epic and id can't.
At best cheaters could be stopped for a few days to a week. After that they will simply find a new program, a new way. It takes far less time to make a cheat than it does to eliminate one. They will not go away, don't ever think they will. Cheaters are here to stay and people need to accept this.
Finally, programs like CSHP do virtually nothing. I remember the day they released version 4 (or whatever it is as they release far too many versions). Within an hour I was on a server with a cheater. Nobody believed that he was cheating, they were all like "this server is cshp4 he can't be cheating!" I shut down UT, changed ini files, reconnected to the server, then proceeded to get headshot after headshot for a few minutes. All the people talking about how CSHP prevented cheating quickly shut up.
Some people need to realise that aimbots exist, people use them in INF, they work online, and there isn't anything that can be done to safeguard against them. You can slow them down, you can make it more difficult, but you CAN'T stop them.
--You can stop reading here if you want--
Here is a prime example of why cheating will never be stopped in INF. A cheater finds out that Beppo has somehow done the impossible and defeated all client side hacks. He sets up his old machine as and connects to the internet through that. This machine doesn't just relay his packets though, it actually looks at what is happening in the game. It interprets the packets and notices you just fired, but you will miss because your aim is off. It changes the packets and sends the modified packets to the server. It's an aimbot, but it's not on his machine. The machine he is playing on has no cheats, no extra programs, all his game files are 100% correct in every way. Now tell me how your going to stop him. What are you going to do? Checking the game files and such will do nothing because there is nothing wrong with his game or any of his files. Everything on his machine is perfectly 'legal' as far as the game is concerned. You could ban everybody that routes their internet like this but this would serve only to ban thousands of fair and honest players for every cheater there is and even if you did do this, the cheaters would simply hide their router and get around it. If your not careful your 'fix' will cause far more harm to the community than the cheater ever would have.
None of this is hard to do if you know what your doing. Luckily most people don't know what they are doing but at the same time this general lack of knowledge means many people simply refuse to believe that cheating takes place. Face it, cheaters are here and they are here to stay. Don't blindly believe that programs like CSHP or minor adjustments by Beppo are going to stop it, cus it won't. BTW, I'll answer the question before I'm asked:
No, I don't.
I think many people in this thread need a serious reality check. I'll try to make this as clear as possible.
1: People cheat playing infiltration online.
2: You cannot stop cheaters.
3: CSHP does not stop aimbots.
Now let me explain. People have been cheating in online INF matches since day 1. People still cheat now. Anyone who denies this is either a cheater themselves or has no knowledge of such things and refuses to believe something even if they see it for themselves. People will ALWAYS cheat. Some people replied as if Beppo is going to stop all cheating. It will not happen. I'm sure he's a very good coder but from his own post he seems to know little about how cheats work (no offense). Besides, I highly doubt he would be the one to solve the problem if epic and id can't.
At best cheaters could be stopped for a few days to a week. After that they will simply find a new program, a new way. It takes far less time to make a cheat than it does to eliminate one. They will not go away, don't ever think they will. Cheaters are here to stay and people need to accept this.
Finally, programs like CSHP do virtually nothing. I remember the day they released version 4 (or whatever it is as they release far too many versions). Within an hour I was on a server with a cheater. Nobody believed that he was cheating, they were all like "this server is cshp4 he can't be cheating!" I shut down UT, changed ini files, reconnected to the server, then proceeded to get headshot after headshot for a few minutes. All the people talking about how CSHP prevented cheating quickly shut up.
Some people need to realise that aimbots exist, people use them in INF, they work online, and there isn't anything that can be done to safeguard against them. You can slow them down, you can make it more difficult, but you CAN'T stop them.
--You can stop reading here if you want--
Here is a prime example of why cheating will never be stopped in INF. A cheater finds out that Beppo has somehow done the impossible and defeated all client side hacks. He sets up his old machine as and connects to the internet through that. This machine doesn't just relay his packets though, it actually looks at what is happening in the game. It interprets the packets and notices you just fired, but you will miss because your aim is off. It changes the packets and sends the modified packets to the server. It's an aimbot, but it's not on his machine. The machine he is playing on has no cheats, no extra programs, all his game files are 100% correct in every way. Now tell me how your going to stop him. What are you going to do? Checking the game files and such will do nothing because there is nothing wrong with his game or any of his files. Everything on his machine is perfectly 'legal' as far as the game is concerned. You could ban everybody that routes their internet like this but this would serve only to ban thousands of fair and honest players for every cheater there is and even if you did do this, the cheaters would simply hide their router and get around it. If your not careful your 'fix' will cause far more harm to the community than the cheater ever would have.
None of this is hard to do if you know what your doing. Luckily most people don't know what they are doing but at the same time this general lack of knowledge means many people simply refuse to believe that cheating takes place. Face it, cheaters are here and they are here to stay. Don't blindly believe that programs like CSHP or minor adjustments by Beppo are going to stop it, cus it won't. BTW, I'll answer the question before I'm asked:
No, I don't.
well just tested ShamblesBot2.0 and CSHP worked.
may be CSHP wont stop all the bots but it does stop ShamblesBot2.0. Any way I will keep my small 6 player INF server running CSHP this way I will stop most of the bots.
I will be testing with more hacks as i find them.
may be CSHP wont stop all the bots but it does stop ShamblesBot2.0. Any way I will keep my small 6 player INF server running CSHP this way I will stop most of the bots.
I will be testing with more hacks as i find them.
SoSilencer, how about sending the data encrypted? That would stop external programms from "tweakin" the data send to the server. This shouldn't be a big hit to performance couse only few data is send to the server.
Can this be done with the UT engine? (Yeah, probably not. No need to answer this one.)
Can this be implemented in a mod? (Dunno. Answer this one instead)
Can this be done with the UT engine? (Yeah, probably not. No need to answer this one.)
Can this be implemented in a mod? (Dunno. Answer this one instead)
still i remember reading an article about cheating and it stated that you could indeed encrypt your data but the cheaters would simply find out how it was encrypted and STILL alter it.
True, but the way it's encrypted could be changed from time to time (or Inf patch to Inf patch). Or the password could changed from round to round.
I thought there is a way to do this without "listening" programs could get what is inside the IP packets (and with this getting the encryption scheme or password).
I mean all this Home-Banking, Secure Transfers stuff HAS to work wihout the possibility to catch the password. Otherwise the wohle Internet security stuff would be quite useless, right?
Any cryptographic expert here?
I thought there is a way to do this without "listening" programs could get what is inside the IP packets (and with this getting the encryption scheme or password).
I mean all this Home-Banking, Secure Transfers stuff HAS to work wihout the possibility to catch the password. Otherwise the wohle Internet security stuff would be quite useless, right?
Any cryptographic expert here?
proof of an aimbot? what kind is it?
Well, I spectated from the viewpoint of the suspect last night, and the results were interesting...
He doesn't seem to be using an aimbot, in the traditional sense of the word aimbot. His player's movement isn't jerky or seemingly controlled by something other than himself. HOWEVER, he does seem to be able to hit anything that he wants to, with any weapon, from any distance. At one point, when he was using the scope on the PSG, I noticed that he only had to get the target within about 50% of the scope's viewpoint, and he'd kill the target with one shot! His shots seem to only have to be CLOSE, and it will kill the target every time. I spectated from the viewpoint of some other players, and they had to get the target MUCH closer to the center of the crosshairs before they scored a hit.
What do you think?
b.
Well, I spectated from the viewpoint of the suspect last night, and the results were interesting...
He doesn't seem to be using an aimbot, in the traditional sense of the word aimbot. His player's movement isn't jerky or seemingly controlled by something other than himself. HOWEVER, he does seem to be able to hit anything that he wants to, with any weapon, from any distance. At one point, when he was using the scope on the PSG, I noticed that he only had to get the target within about 50% of the scope's viewpoint, and he'd kill the target with one shot! His shots seem to only have to be CLOSE, and it will kill the target every time. I spectated from the viewpoint of some other players, and they had to get the target MUCH closer to the center of the crosshairs before they scored a hit.
What do you think?
b.
Okay, then what about blocking his IP?
Well,
If there is no program to stop an aimbot in Unreal1, then I can just block his IP using an external program. But what program should I use? I use BlackIce and ZoneAlarm all of the time, but this is what I REALLY need:
A program to read AND REPORT the IP's that are connected to the specific port that my Unreal1 server is running on. If I can get the IP and time that it logged on from that program, I can isolate it in BlackICE or ZoneAlarm and block the jerk! What programs do you guys suggest?
Again, I need a program that will log IPs that connect to a specific port.
I'm using WinNT 4.0 workstation.
thx,
b.
Well,
If there is no program to stop an aimbot in Unreal1, then I can just block his IP using an external program. But what program should I use? I use BlackIce and ZoneAlarm all of the time, but this is what I REALLY need:
A program to read AND REPORT the IP's that are connected to the specific port that my Unreal1 server is running on. If I can get the IP and time that it logged on from that program, I can isolate it in BlackICE or ZoneAlarm and block the jerk! What programs do you guys suggest?
Again, I need a program that will log IPs that connect to a specific port.
I'm using WinNT 4.0 workstation.
thx,
b.
barrett_steele
I don't think that this is the final sollution. Not everyone has a fixed IP that you can bann. The guys on dial-up have a chance of 1 to 50000 (that's just a guess, it depends on the size of the ISP) to get the same IP again. And if someone else gets a previously banned IP, he couldn't connect to the server till he dials-up again.
Something like an internal number, different in each download would be better. This could be recognized by the server as "I know this number, cheateralarm". But it would be the target of crackers. They build a KeyGen&Patch program and everyting works again. So this is not realy good.
I still think that cryptograph could handle this. Problem with this: The whole Mod and UT would have to encrypt the whole RAM they are using, couse the key would have to be stored there AFAIK.
So ... 1 left.
Do a program that analyses the way someone plays, behaves, aims and walks. This would work perfectly
..... but I don't think that this is possible to programm.
Any ideas???
I don't think that this is the final sollution. Not everyone has a fixed IP that you can bann. The guys on dial-up have a chance of 1 to 50000 (that's just a guess, it depends on the size of the ISP) to get the same IP again. And if someone else gets a previously banned IP, he couldn't connect to the server till he dials-up again.
Something like an internal number, different in each download would be better. This could be recognized by the server as "I know this number, cheateralarm". But it would be the target of crackers. They build a KeyGen&Patch program and everyting works again. So this is not realy good.
I still think that cryptograph could handle this. Problem with this: The whole Mod and UT would have to encrypt the whole RAM they are using, couse the key would have to be stored there AFAIK.
So ... 1 left.
Do a program that analyses the way someone plays, behaves, aims and walks. This would work perfectly
..... but I don't think that this is possible to programm.
Any ideas???
well....
I DO know of a program that actually reads a client's communication card's ID number, instead of their IP. Therefore, a person could be blocked using that number (if you just didn't want to block a range of IPs). I'll see if I can find out what that program is called, and if I can use it.
b.
I DO know of a program that actually reads a client's communication card's ID number, instead of their IP. Therefore, a person could be blocked using that number (if you just didn't want to block a range of IPs). I'll see if I can find out what that program is called, and if I can use it.
b.
the only way to get around that is to use a different modem/network card. But i'm sure there are programs that can alter that number as well (at least make the outside world think it's different).
I believe cable companies used to use that number to see if you were allowed to connect or not.
I believe cable companies used to use that number to see if you were allowed to connect or not.
I have a suggestion as how to deal with aimbots, TK'ing and other shenanigans. I don't think it will be popular with a lot of people, but for those who want to play a serious game it may work.
I suggest charging a nominal fee to join "official" or "approved" servers. This fee can range from token ($1) to significant ($20). With paypal and such proliferated, the logistics of such an idea is not impossible.
After creating an account a user will need to log in using a good old password. Improper behavior, such as excessive intentional teamkill or obvious use of aimbots will lead to account cancellation and forfeit of fee.
There is a second bonus to this. This nominal fee can be shared between server provider and development team, or simply donated to charity.
Compared to the money I spend on hardware, $5-$10 is cheap, and I would gladly forego this amount to not have to deal with immaturity and cheating while playing online. If enough people agree with this, (which I doubt) this would work.
I suggest charging a nominal fee to join "official" or "approved" servers. This fee can range from token ($1) to significant ($20). With paypal and such proliferated, the logistics of such an idea is not impossible.
After creating an account a user will need to log in using a good old password. Improper behavior, such as excessive intentional teamkill or obvious use of aimbots will lead to account cancellation and forfeit of fee.
There is a second bonus to this. This nominal fee can be shared between server provider and development team, or simply donated to charity.
Compared to the money I spend on hardware, $5-$10 is cheap, and I would gladly forego this amount to not have to deal with immaturity and cheating while playing online. If enough people agree with this, (which I doubt) this would work.
With the amount of people viewed this post obviously Shock_Hunter has seen and read it, at least the first post, and has not bothered to defend himself. Makes you wonder if you ask me.
barrett_steele, The_Fur, the MAC adress (thats what the unique network card ID is called if I recall it right) would have been my next sugestion. Im not shure if true unique numbers are saved in other hardware then network cards (and Intel processors ) but today almost everyone has one.
If this number could be determined unalterd and send to the server without change (encryption? Yeah, I AM a fan of encryption, guess you aleady noticed that ) this would be a possibility to do it.
If anyone knows this:
Im curious, can you determin a MAC adress if the driver for the card isn't installed? If so then all is fine, if not... well, it's quite easy to create a hardware profile (dunno how it's called in the english Windows version) without network drivers, and this making the whole MAC adress check useless.
) but today almost everyone has one.If this number could be determined unalterd and send to the server without change (encryption? Yeah, I AM a fan of encryption, guess you aleady noticed that
) this would be a possibility to do it. If anyone knows this:
Im curious, can you determin a MAC adress if the driver for the card isn't installed? If so then all is fine, if not... well, it's quite easy to create a hardware profile (dunno how it's called in the english Windows version) without network drivers, and this making the whole MAC adress check useless.