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Road to Khandahar. What a waste!

Discussion in 'General Infiltration Discussion' started by NTKB, Dec 26, 2003.

  1. yurch

    yurch Swinging the clue-by-four

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    Sniper rifles, no. Scoped rifles, yes.
     
  2. TOAD

    TOAD One team...one life...one chance

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    Hmmm I don't know of any forces where everyone has a closet full of firearms to chose from either, but in INF's world that's how it is. Maybe one team wants to be well rounded and take different guns, maybe one team just want to snipe. Whatever the case is, if INF is realistic enough, the outcome won't be too far off from what would happen irl. Please define your meaning of the word "realistic" because you're confusing me.
     
  3. Cap'n Beeb

    Cap'n Beeb Banned

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    I find it amusing that you of all people would post this, NTKB. A handful of nights ago on AFA2, it was decreed that no scopes other than ACOGs were to be used, everyone complied... except you. You said that you would change your weapon, but each time I fancied a peek, you were laying prone on the ridge of thethe US spawn point, Robar in hand.

    Practice what you preach or dont preach anything at all.
     
  4. OpFor

    OpFor Feeling suicide, thats O.K.

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    I define realistic as a circumstance that would arise in real life. I have never heard of a team of more than 2 or 3 snipers, ever. A sniper is someone who shoots from a concealed position, but on RtK, they are just arty guns pointed at the opposite hill. In real life, the team would need atleast 2 or 3 people to take the CD and move it to the extract. One for carrying it, one for covering him in a bind, and another spare if you have the man power. The whole idea of two teams of like 10 snipers just doesnt make sense to me. A sniper is by nature, a passive offense. The sniper doesnt go in there guns blazing, he makes sure he is not spotted. Keeping that in mind, I find it hard to see a sniper making a charge for the CD, then running to extract, all the while being shot at.

    Ah, but scoped rifles are far different from sniper rifles. Scoped rifles still maintain their relative easyness to handle and compactness. A SIG with an ACOG can still be handled in CQB. But I would hardly call an RC50 something that is manouverable enough for every soldier. It is meant for one purpose, unlike an AR with a scope.
     
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2003
  5. TOAD

    TOAD One team...one life...one chance

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    OpFor, so you're saying that a team with well rounded load outs should usually have victory over a team full of snipers. In that case, I don't see why there're complaints about the excessive use of sniper rifles on RTK. What I see is you need snipers to take out snipers ( pretty realistic to me), and if your whole team ends up being snipers then either no one cares about extracting the CD, or your team just has no organization. Any way "realistic" to me is when I do something in the game, and I get a result that closely resembles what would happen IRL then it is realistic. Unrealistic means that it can't happens IRL, therefore when you're saying having a team of snipers is unrealistic, I would have to disagree. Remember you're playing public games, some people wants to have teamwork and try to complete the objective, some people just want to kill.
     
  6. Cap'n Beeb

    Cap'n Beeb Banned

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    I dunno, the image of a team armed with suppressed Mk23s taking down a sniper team after flanking them rather soundly sounds damn appetizing. :)
     
  7. OICW

    OICW Reason & Logic > Religion

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    Just hope they don't have armour and helmets on BB :p
     
  8. Turin_Turambar

    Turin_Turambar Pls don´t shoot to the Asha´man

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    i always wanted a game mode/mutator that restrict the team´s weapons. Only one sniper rifle and one hk69 per team, for example. In RL an Army has a fixed budget and can´t give a expensive sniper rifle to every average soldier.
     
  9. TOAD

    TOAD One team...one life...one chance

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    Right if you want weapon restrictions then obtain a mutie with a theme such as: SWAT vs terrorists, US vs Iraq, red necks vs cops, red necks vs red necks, gangsters vs gangsters... almost endless possibilities. Weapon restrictions make perfect sense then.
     
  10. Demosthanese

    Demosthanese .

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    Why did you attack him like that? It's not like his request was out of line.
     
  11. NTKB

    NTKB Banned

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    First off wino, ;) your flat out lying cause I never use the robar anymore. I do use the PSG-1 and actually I bucked 15 of "yall right tehrre." :lol: So learn to counter me like bushy or quit yer wino ing. :p
     
  12. NTKB

    NTKB Banned

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    Thats when you KABAR 'em. ;)
     
  13. OpFor

    OpFor Feeling suicide, thats O.K.

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    Ah, but aliens could land in my back yard tommorow, it could happen. Should we models aliens now? Just because something COULD happen doesnt mean it will. Last time I checked INF was a simulator of combat, not "what could happen on the off chance" ;)

    A sniper in combat isnt there for anti sniper support, it doesnt make any sense. If that were the case, then theoretically the outcome of the round shouldnt change, but it does. A normal soldier or merc would certainly not let everyone in his group take a heavy bulky RC50. What if they get trapped in a bunker? What good are those RC50s then? What if they are detected and there is just too much gun fire to use a slow-aiming type weapon like that? Its not much use blind firing it. Also, those are heavy weapons, about the same as a SAW. We all know that gunners are always the slowest of their squad, imagine a whole group of slow moving clumsy gunners now. Not very effective if they have to move, huh? Ok, so what if they are split up and do not have to move as a single group? A single soldier has no one to cover their back. So now not only are the snipers acting like grunts in their method,they have no one covering them. You've got soldiers that have a cumbersome weapon for each one that (as stated above) is hard to use outside its original intention. Now all these lone snipers are on the move. Sure, thats realistic, snipers relocate all the time. But lets stop and think. Sniper team A and B are both out running around alone, they will meet on a on-the-move basis. Sniper rifles, unlike ARs, are meant for a setup shot, where the user usually isnt panicked, tired, and moving. Guess what happens? Fasted person to get down and get shots off wins. Ok, back to the opposing ridge idea. Ideally, snipers would be used not for just anti sniper support, but for pinning and killing normal soldiers heading for the objective. But there are no soldiers heading to the objective, so that just leaves anti sniper. Its a lose-lose battle from here on in.

    Acogs. Acogs are the key. Allow all players to take an ACOG if they have to. I can see it on maps like RtK, because of the limits of technology. Hell, the Canadian army uses ELCANS on all their weapons (and were in kandahar during the war actually) so ACOGs would not be so entirely unrealistic. If you can come to me with a historic event with a team of 10 or so snipers versus another sniper team of similar sizes, I will stop arguing.
     
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2003
  14. TOAD

    TOAD One team...one life...one chance

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    Opfor man, you're not even staying on subject talking about aliens and stuff. Anyway, when I said "what I see is you need snipers to take out snipers" that's what I see in the game. One team keep getting sniped by other team, they grab sniper rifles to snipe back the next round. I've also seen documentary of WWII where snipers were sent to a location with the sole purpose of finding and eliminating enemy snipers (yes it was on History chanel and not from Enemy at the Gate). Then you went on to describe how inefficient a team of snipers is, that's not what we're discussing about either. I was saying that INF has no theme so why are you comparing INF to a real fighting organization. I've also said that if you run a mutie that sets a theme and places restriction on load out then I have no problem with that. Then you want fighting in INF to match up with some historical event. This is rediculous because warfare is always changing. Lastly, if you want to know more about snipers vs snipers you should read up on "trench warfare". During the day no one wanted to raise their head up to peak even for a split second because they'll get popped by enemy snipers.
     
  15. OpFor

    OpFor Feeling suicide, thats O.K.

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    Yes, I was sooo talking about aliens :rolleyes:

    Were not looking for a theme, were looking for realism. Why is it so hard to grasp the idea that a bunch of snipers sitting there shooting at each other when there is an objective to take is unrealistc? Im not trying to model INF after some historic event. If you had it your way, we would be able to climb over buildings, hang like monkeys from ceilings, zoom in like an acog...oh wait a minute...
     
  16. TOAD

    TOAD One team...one life...one chance

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    I think having bunch of snipers trying to take eachother out is a lot more realistic then having a bunch of people taking insane amount of risk going for the CD right smack in the middle of the day. And errr what does "my way" have to do with this discussion, you're just running out of stuff to say? Your last comment is lame and unnecessary.
     
  17. Alpha_9

    Alpha_9 Infiltration lead level designer

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    You'd be surprised at the risks people will take during wartime.

    Vega-don is my new best buddy. :D
     
  18. OpFor

    OpFor Feeling suicide, thats O.K.

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    well toad, going to war is insane. Having to shoot other people is insane. Being sent to another country you've never heard of to protect people who hate you is insane. All I'm saying is that a large team of snipers fighting like infantry against another team of exact proportions is unrealistc. There ARE rocks (lots of them) to hide behind when you go after the CD, so theres absolutely no need for the whole sniper thing.
     
  19. NTKB

    NTKB Banned

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    It still would have been nice if ONE route that was under total sniper cover was provided. Perhaps a cave network (it is Afghanistan isnt it?)

    Either way the best strategy to win seems to go right for the CD. You usually make it if you "dance" right to get to it and once you get it it seems the defenders could care less. The still stay on there ridges with there sniper rifles. Maybe if they realize sniping doesnt win the map, one dedicated and hopefulyl backed up soldier does!
     
  20. keihaswarrior

    keihaswarrior New Member

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    I like RtK, but I wish there was more cover from snipers. The snipers only have to move about 20ft from their spawn to be able to look over the entire map.

    The map can be very frustrating when the other team has a couple good snipers since they will always get like 20 pot shots at you no matter what route you take.

    I did have a very fun game on RtK the other night though. I was having fun using only a knife [​IMG] and I was able to track down the attacker's CD carrier to the extration, knife him, steal the cd, and immediately run to the humvees. hehehe fun times
     

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