1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. Two Factor Authentication is now available on BeyondUnreal Forums. To configure it, visit your Profile and look for the "Two Step Verification" option on the left side. We can send codes via email (may be slower) or you can set up any TOTP Authenticator app on your phone (Authy, Google Authenticator, etc) to deliver codes. It is highly recommended that you configure this to keep your account safe.

Religious/Evolutionary Debate Thread

Discussion in 'Other Stuff' started by QUALTHWAR, Dec 2, 2004.

  1. QUALTHWAR

    QUALTHWAR Baitshop opening soon.

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2000
    Messages:
    6,419
    Likes Received:
    52
    Ruk, i'm asking a couple simple questions that nobody wants to answer:

    Why do you think there is a god, and why do you think the bible is the word of god?

    I want to know what people personally feel about those two questions. There has to be a reason, or something that has proven to them that they are correct in their views.

    The old "prove god doesn't exist" thing is not an answer to that. In fact, it's a copout that people seem to use all the time when they don't have an answer. Besides, it's been said time and time again that it's pretty much impossible to prove all sorts of things, not just the existance of god.

    Want an example: prove to me that somewhere along the line life wasn't seeded by aliens on this planet. Prove to me that you won't die tomorrow.

    As far as life being wonderful and life elsewhere etc.... Ruk, things are far from being wonderful. People get sick and die. We struggle all the time to stay alive. We have hardships out the ying yang. Life is really a bitch a lot times.

    As far as the same thing happening elsewhere: life almost certainly has gained a foothold elsewhere, but we are only just beginning to explore space. If it takes lightyears to get to even the closest stars, how do you expect us to discover life out there at the moment. Hell, we don't even know what all is in our rain forest or in the oceans, and that life is right here on our planet.
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2004
  2. Cat Fuzz

    Cat Fuzz Qualthwar's Minion. Ph34r!

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2001
    Messages:
    3,930
    Likes Received:
    4
    I've been avoiding answering your question because someone will just come along and point, laugh at and ridicule whatever I say. It's typical behavior of those who reject God. They will rationalize and grab onto any bit of evidence that God doesn't exist.

    The fact is evolution is a theory on the same level as intelligent design theory.

    Where did matter come from? A singularity the exploded for some unknown reason? Why did it explode when it did? What kept it from exploding up until the time that it did? Where did the singularity come from? The singularity was spinning at a high rate of speed, right? What about the Law of Angular Momentum? Why are some planets spinning in opposite directions?
     
  3. Dying_corpse

    Dying_corpse New Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2002
    Messages:
    1,386
    Likes Received:
    0
    why can't we just all sit down and have a pie caek orgy?
     
  4. bobtheking

    bobtheking Monkey in a bucket

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2001
    Messages:
    1,237
    Likes Received:
    0
    because there is more evidence of that. qualth is asking you to provide a rational reason (edit: to believe) that god exists. there is nothing to suggest he is more than a figment of our imagination.
    no its not, creation doesn't even qualify as a theory, its a totally untested hypothesis, and even that is a stretch because in order to qualify as a hypothesis there must be some way to prove or disprove it. there will NEVER be a way to prove or disprove creation as far as i know. given enough time, it would and will be possible to validate evolution.
    i'm sorry i didn't realize evolution claimed to explain any of this.
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2004
  5. QUALTHWAR

    QUALTHWAR Baitshop opening soon.

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2000
    Messages:
    6,419
    Likes Received:
    52
     
  6. QUALTHWAR

    QUALTHWAR Baitshop opening soon.

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2000
    Messages:
    6,419
    Likes Received:
    52
    fuzz, matter came from energy. matter is energy, and energy is matter.

    who said the singularity was spinning at a high rate?

    some bodies spin in opposite directions because of collisions with other bodies in space.
     
  7. QUALTHWAR

    QUALTHWAR Baitshop opening soon.

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2000
    Messages:
    6,419
    Likes Received:
    52
    but this is a debate. none of us really knows what happened long ago. if we did, we would be preparing our speech for the noble prize.

    many of us has presented arguments as to why we believe in evolution. you come along and say we're wrong, but you don't provide a reason why you feel that way. It's like a parents telling a child, "just do it because i said so."

    You must have reasons for your feelings. If your reasons can be so easily ridiculed, maybe it's time to reexamine your reasoning.

    if you don't give a reason, we can only assume you don't have a good reason; you just believe something for no good reason.
     
  8. Mister_Prophet

    Mister_Prophet .

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2001
    Messages:
    4,600
    Likes Received:
    2
    I feel like you guys are pushing Fuzz into a corner so I'll answer your question according to what my schooling told me.

    Why do you think there is a god, and why do you think the bible is the word of god?

    The bible was written by man, this much is not denied. But according to the faith the men who wrote the bible were being fed the words through God. God wrote the bible through them or something to that effect. The stories in the bible are basically a history book, but a varied history book (hence 4 gospels). As far as I can tell, the mentality behind the believing the bible is the same as believing what your history books say. People believe in God because the bible says he exists.

    Cat Fuzz stop me if I'm wrong about something.
     
  9. Cat Fuzz

    Cat Fuzz Qualthwar's Minion. Ph34r!

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2001
    Messages:
    3,930
    Likes Received:
    4
  10. Cat Fuzz

    Cat Fuzz Qualthwar's Minion. Ph34r!

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2001
    Messages:
    3,930
    Likes Received:
    4
    I believe in God because I see evidence for His existance. Some people cannot or choose not to see the evidence. The evidence? I see love in people. I see trees and think of all the great things we have been given the ability to make with them. I look up into the sky and see an infinite universe that only an infinite being could have created. I see a world that is so complex we still don't know nearly everything about it. I see the cycle of life: producers, consumers and decomposers. All three are required to perpetuate life. The world could not have brought forth life with only one of these to start with.


    I'm kind of rambling.
     
  11. Cat Fuzz

    Cat Fuzz Qualthwar's Minion. Ph34r!

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2001
    Messages:
    3,930
    Likes Received:
    4

    I'm getting used to it. :rolleyes:
     
  12. bobtheking

    bobtheking Monkey in a bucket

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2001
    Messages:
    1,237
    Likes Received:
    0
    first site, how are you supposed to read it? see attachment

    second site:

    i read the first two pages, on them are numerous errors and much conveniently ignoring fundamental aspects of chemistry.

    since the first page is an image, i can't quote, but i can explain some of the stuff.

    page 1: he seems to be completely missing the idea that there is a difference between intermolecular forces and atomic bonding, and because of this what he is saying on this page doesn't make a lot of sense.

    page 2:
    is he seriously comparing the hydrogen in water and in an acid?
    heat of formation of the different molecules. energy is another ingredient in molecules, which is potential energy stored in the bonds.
    no they are not, far from it. you could make a case for the noble gasses, but they are not inert in the way that he is saying (i think). and yes, if the universe was made up of noble gasses, then it would just be a cloud of gas. somehow he is suggesting that because all atoms behave like noble gasses, there is a god behind it holding them all together.

    the next few pages are based on this flawed idea that atoms are inert, and then proceeds to go off on random tinfoil theories about christianity. this persecution complex of the religious right is amazing.

    cat fuzz, you must have not ever taken chemistry, or didn't read the links you provided, the second one is a ****ing joke.

    edit 2: LMFAO!!!!!!! :lol::lol::lol::lol:

    http://www.godproven.com/godproven_048.htm

    the US government is out to keep the perpetual machines down!!!

    edit: wtf happened to my attachment
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Dec 7, 2004
  13. Chrysaor

    Chrysaor Lord of the Pants

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2001
    Messages:
    3,020
    Likes Received:
    4
    I've actually never agreed with you more.

    I wasn't raised a christian. I was agnostic for awhile, and found my god a couple summers ago. I don't believe in Heaven, or some supernatural ectoplasm of a soul. Simply, I believe that the human mind is a very deep and complex thing, that has some sort of link, by ideas, words, and purpose to the other things that create and love and exist in this moment. This collective power is what I perceive as god. Or part of it anyway. I don't look to god to judge me when i die, but to show me the cyclic nature of this universe and deal with my and everyone else's psyche and pursuit of love in this reality.

    As far as Christianity goes, from an outsiders perspective it has two or three gods. It's either one god, and Jesus is a man, or there are two gods, Jesus and God. And I don't even know about that holy spirit thing. Personally, I would respect the religion more if Jesus was a man. The whole gods having kids thing is really no better than all the pagan religions Christians fight.
     
  14. QUALTHWAR

    QUALTHWAR Baitshop opening soon.

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2000
    Messages:
    6,419
    Likes Received:
    52
    okay, but i don't see how one equates to the other. you say because we have trees, and love, and complexity, etc. that it implies a god. I just don't see how that's much of an argument. The only thing that's real and specific you mention is a tree. I'm not convinced because we have trees that there is a god.

    What about all the points that i raised? How about addressing just one of them? If we started from adam and eve, who is having sex with one another?
     
  15. QUALTHWAR

    QUALTHWAR Baitshop opening soon.

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2000
    Messages:
    6,419
    Likes Received:
    52
    On the flip side, I went to church all my life as a boy, then attended a youth ranch for Christians as a teen, then was going to be a minister at one point.

    Then something occurred to me: if god is real then he should withstand some tough questioning. I never thought to question my faith before, the same mistake most people make, but I figured if god was real, he was up to the challenge.

    After years of asking these hard questions, I determined I had been wrong all along. The bible just didn’t make sense. I realized that I had nothing but a desire to believe in something without any evidence. I realized that I woke up to the truth.
     
  16. QUALTHWAR

    QUALTHWAR Baitshop opening soon.

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2000
    Messages:
    6,419
    Likes Received:
    52
    i wished you could have seen that show about the dead sea scrolls that i saw years ago. They haven't aired it since. I think it rocked the foundation of christanity. it basically said that deeply religious men working on the scrolls were quitting because of what they were learning. that jesus was bascially a rebel. That "The Holy One" the bible refers to is john the baptist. Then there's stuff about the word angel and how it's similiar to the word knight, where people were called angels in the society on earth. And they talk about two cities with the same name, but one is plural. Something like Israel and Israels with an “s” on the end. The bible used this plural form in some places; don’t know if it was Israel, though. Anyway, the rebellious jesus and others moved out of the one city and started their own civilization and that’s where the second city name came from.

    The point is, these religious scholars were shocked by what they found. They didn’t want to believe that jesus was just a man, but there it was right in front of them. Many of them left the project.
     
  17. ReD_Fist

    ReD_Fist New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2004
    Messages:
    1,404
    Likes Received:
    4
    I was raised ,first neterlands christian reformed church,it was kinda like ,no chrismass tree,no easter egg coloring,no trick or treat,no doings on sunday etc etc.
    I havnet gone to church now in 25 years,but I still believe that only one god exists,and thats my final word.
    And for all these people to sit back and try and debunk the whole thing,to me, is just them themselves knowing there is a God and can't believe they are not the superior being itself.cause we arn't.
    Or look at it like this,say it's all true,wouldn't you rather be on some sort of default side of god and good when the time comes? Heh.

    Your truth you woke up to,you sure it isn't the truth you are fighting so bad to not believe in,?another test from the devil? Hmm.
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2004
  18. bobtheking

    bobtheking Monkey in a bucket

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2001
    Messages:
    1,237
    Likes Received:
    0
    oh thats exactly it, i see the light now.
    to me, living without learning is not living at all, and religion and learning seem to be quite mutually exclusive. its a shame you are willing to not live the way you want in the name of irrational fear from a supposedly all loving god.
    you sound like the waterboy's mom.
     
  19. ReD_Fist

    ReD_Fist New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2004
    Messages:
    1,404
    Likes Received:
    4
    """""its a shame you are willing to not live the way you want in the name of irrational fear from a supposedly all loving god."""""

    Mabye more people like you need this irrational fear,cause you know there is somthing,just somthing that is more of all of what we know.
    But fear is not how we live,do you walk around all day every second wondering ,worrying when and how you will die ?
    And I do live the way I want,but also acknowledge there is a higher being be it affraid or not affraid.
     
  20. Reign

    Reign The only candy with the Petey crunch

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2002
    Messages:
    303
    Likes Received:
    0
    Now you see Qualth, you just keep pushing it. I was going to stay out of it, I really was but no...I just had to keep reading...oh yes. It's my own fault as well, make no mistake but I see the time has come once again to answer the eternal questions since you seem to really want to know.

    OK, here goes.
    The Bible is a collection of works that consist of the "relevant" history of Man's relationship with God as well as His over all plan for Humanity. It is believed by myself and millions of others that those works are for the most part inspired by God Himself and they are clear and consistent through out.

    It is well known that the Bible itself, in it's present form, is merely the most excepted canon of the inspired works that I previously mentioned. Is the Bible the complete sum and total collection of everything God has to say? No, but what was included in this canon reveals more than enough of God's will to allow us to live by, to learn from and to prove itself to be genuine when actually applied to one's own life. As they say, "the proof of the pudding is in the eating", not in the sitting around discussing whether the pudding is real or not.

    I think that some people who seek to find fault with believing in God, are confusing the term "Bible" with the inspired Holy words that reside within it. You see, the inspired Word of God stands on it's own with or without being confined to a specific collection such as the current canon known as the Bible. When you attack the Bible you are merely finding fault with the collection but you are not addressing the scriptures themselves. Remember the inspired Word of God predates the Bible itself (which as I stated is just the selected collection if God inspired works). God Himself does not refer to "The Bible" in any of the scriptures. He doesn't refer to chapters and verses or anything else that was added later on when the Bible was being constructed.

    I often us the term Bible when I are referring to the actual living Word of God because I understand the significance of this widely accepted collection. In addition, many of us can correctly comprehend the entire collection by connecting together the fullness of what God is saying throughout His inspired Word. It therefor does not matter that quite a few other inspired works as well as a complete historical, scientific and genealogical record of the entire Human race was left out.

    Since Adam and Eve were brought up, I'll use them as an example of what the Bible does not include and what the Word of God does say. As it is written, God created Adam in His own likeness and image which means that not only did Adam "look" like God, he was just like Him, only in flesh form. He was created perfect which of course means that he was genetically perfect and so was Eve whom was created from him. When people today think of a brother and sister having children together, they correctly frown upon the practice do to a lack of genetic diversity.

    The mistake people make when looking at the Adam and Eve situation is that they try to compare their perfect genetic structure with today's vastly inferior gene pool. Lets face it, most people are severely inbred save for a few who have mated outside of their "race". Those that are the porduct of it are genetically superior to the common single "race" inbred variety in the since that they are being created from a richer gene pool. A gene pool that is closer to the original perfect configuration. All of the ethnicities that exist today are mere splintered fragments of the original perfect pattern. If you were to re combine all of the variations back into one, you would possess enough genetic diversity in two such people to sustain as many generations without negative affect.

    Now, all of this is speculation on my part because as far as I know, the Bible does not include a comprehensive study on the human genome and the effects of limited bio diversity within a species. Then again, it doesn't need to.
     

Share This Page