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Religious/Evolutionary Debate Thread

Discussion in 'Other Stuff' started by QUALTHWAR, Dec 2, 2004.

  1. Rukee

    Rukee Coffee overclocks the overclocker!!

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    How many times has the bible been rewriten??
    How much was lost in each and in translations???
    I mean I get instructions writen in Japan, translated in Pakastan to english and you can barely make them out. If it wasn`t for the pics!! :B
     
  2. LumenEdge

    LumenEdge Creative Element

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    Gee wiz. It's been 5 days and people are still talking about this? Whatever happened to the good old, Nali City short attention span that I've come to love over the years?

    For shame people, for you have strayed from the true path of NCOS. Yea thou hath commited the vile act of topic whoring. Save your souls and lettith it go.

    In other news: Am I the only one who thinks RedFist is somewhat similar to our dear departed Skorch? "My Holy senses are tingling." :eek:
     
  3. GoAt

    GoAt Never wrong

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    what if its all backwards?

    christians say that the devil does nothing but tempt us with all sorts of good things.

    what about this heaven then? an eternal utopia? sounds tempting to me
     
  4. ReD_Fist

    ReD_Fist New Member

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    Well I personaly would have no trouble of testing there religion,they are not all right,probably one must pick wich they closest to agree,but there is only one God.

    And from church to church,If I say I don't agree with them,I would definitly tell them about it,however no matter wich they nor anyone can take away MY beliefe in God.

    But all this (friends if you goto my church) is again the devil breaking through testing and testing,so if these church goers think Me Me Me they are also wrong.

    But I will argue there is only one God,and if church is some kinda selfserving,holier than thou type of stuff going on they aint making it to heaven either.
    Amen Heh
     
  5. Nachimir

    Nachimir Crony of Stilgar

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    I think the only thing they show in common is conservatism; Skorch had a strong sense of justice and was never so insulting. I thought several of the things he spoke about seemed to indicate a strong love for people, but this specimen seems to only have hatred and bile.
     
  6. Rukee

    Rukee Coffee overclocks the overclocker!!

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    I hate bile. :hmm:
     
  7. Zlal

    Zlal New but not improved.

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    Redfist is like everyone's favourate rat lookalike Tony Blair, in that whatever you ask him, you always get an irrelevant or sidetracked answer.
     
  8. QUALTHWAR

    QUALTHWAR Baitshop opening soon.

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    But why do you believe in a god, and why do you think the bible is the word of god?
     
  9. Cat Fuzz

    Cat Fuzz Qualthwar's Minion. Ph34r!

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    I missed your post, replying now :D

    I do see similarities, but that doesn't prove macro-evolution. It could be said that dogs, cats, cows and horses are all similar but they are very different animals. Just because birds have feathers that resemble the scales of a reptile doesn't mean they evolved from a common ancestor. What I find most rediculous is the idea that all life on Earth came from non-life. Somehow, buy some random chance, a couple amino acids got together and evolved into all the life on Earth. Ludicrous.
     
  10. Mister_Prophet

    Mister_Prophet .

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    What about bone structure? Birds and dinosaurs have alot of similarities besides feathers to suggest a possible link. We've seen animals change over a period of only several hundred years with minor adjustments, it is easy to assume they would change a great deal more if that gap was larger, say a few million years? Aside from a touch of reptilia DNA are bird really so different than Dinosuars? Eggs, cold-blooded, similar bone structure not found on any other animal?


    Here is where I tend to agree with you more. I'm not sure I buy that whole instantaneous life thing either. But isn't the idea of God making man out of nothing pretty much the same idea? Only in evolution there isn't a God, it's nature.
     
  11. QUALTHWAR

    QUALTHWAR Baitshop opening soon.

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    But the problem with that argument is you can’t comprehend the time period involved. Try to imagine 100 years, then 1000, then 10,000. It starts to get very difficult. Now try to imagine billions of years. It took life billions of years to evolve into what we see today.

    I was talking with someone once who refused to believe that life came from an ameba. That was so over-simplified, it wasn’t worth my time to explain how wrong that sentence was.

    We have created the primordial constituents for life in the lab with a simple experiment. It’s not all that difficult to do. I’m not saying evolution is easy, it isn’t, but billions of years of chemistry can do a lot. If you don’t take the time to learn more about how evolution is possible, you are blinding yourself; you’re not taking the time to learn all the facts. Most of the time, this happens because people don’t want to know all the facts. It’s the old stick my hands over my ears and do the “la la la, I can’t hear you” thing.

    Forget about the evolutionary argument for a minute. I want to hear some serious arguments that god does exist and the bible is the word of god. I want to hear a valid argument. I have plenty more to say about evolution that I haven’t begun to touch on yet, but I want to hear some serious arguments from the other side.
     
  12. QUALTHWAR

    QUALTHWAR Baitshop opening soon.

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    I believe evolution can be far more robust than that. I think I heard where we’ve created a whole new species of rat in just 7 generations in the lab.
     
  13. Mister_Prophet

    Mister_Prophet .

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    I've seen alot of stuff with plants on this matter where new generations grew new traits and attributes in a controlled environment. But I was referring to changes in nature, no accelerated lab tests. Though I'm sure under certain conditions in nature some events can speed up the process, say a natural disaster or...an Ice Age *wink*.
     
  14. Cat Fuzz

    Cat Fuzz Qualthwar's Minion. Ph34r!

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    Yes, but can they turn the rat into a duck?
     
  15. Mister_Prophet

    Mister_Prophet .

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    I wouldn't bother. I've been shot down all through catholic schooling by people who were supposed to be teachers and people in my family and community when trying to ask this. I'd either be given some vague response or told to shut up and go to the principles office for detention.
     
  16. Mister_Prophet

    Mister_Prophet .

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    I'd doubt it but a rat into a another rodent mammal thing...perhaps.
     
  17. QUALTHWAR

    QUALTHWAR Baitshop opening soon.

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    What do you think? Evolution happens for different reasons, but the primary reason is because of the environment. When an environment is advantageous to a species, it thrives. Years ago, there were moths that were light-colored in England and they thrived because they blended into their environment. There were also dark moths, but their numbers were significantly lower because it was easy for bird to pick them out against their natural background.

    During the industrial revolution, England was burning tons of fossil fuel and there was soot all over the place. The light moths now stood out against the background and their numbers quickly dwindled. The dark moths were difficult to spot and their number rose greatly.

    This is a perfect example of how evolution works, and it’s something that happened in recent history.

    The fossil record clearly shows that 65 million years ago, about 90% of life on the planet suddenly died off. What happened to make everything die so suddenly? The creatures such as dinosaurs died off during this time, too. At this same time, there was a relatively large deposit of iridium at this boundary where most things perished. Iridium is a heavy element and most of it sunk towards the core during the formation of the earth. You don’t find it in any significant amounts on the surface of the earth.

    However, you do find iridium in relatively large doses in asteroids and the like. The sprinkling of the iridium at this critical boundary was significant; it suggested something from space hit the earth 65 million years ago. But where was the crater; the smoking gun? Scientists finally discovered the crater not too long ago off the Yucatan Peninsula. It dates precisely to 65 million years old. Moreover, the further you go out from this crater, the less iridium there is. Mind you, iridium was still found at this boundary all over the world, which suggests it was aloft in the atmosphere and rained down at this critical boundary, at this critical time.

    The bible makes no mention of any of this. I don’t know if it even talks about dinosaurs; yet, their fossil record is everywhere.

    The catastrophic event 65 million years ago is what helped mammals to thrive, just like the moths. Now they had an advantage. They survived because some were underground and small and they could handle the change in their environment.

    The coelacanth and the lungfish are good examples of how creatures can evolve from the sea and walk on land; they have limbs. To ask if we can turn a rat into a duck is completely missing the point. It took countless years for creatures to get where they are today, and you can’t understand that because you can’t understand what millions and billions of years are like.
     
  18. QUALTHWAR

    QUALTHWAR Baitshop opening soon.

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    No person here who believes in the bible has given any reason why they think god exists…unless you want to count the, “I can’t believe we evolved, so there must be a god” thing.

    I’m talking about some sort of evidence that there is a god. Some evidence that the bible is the word of god and not the word of man. Something tangible; some sort of proof for your beliefs.
     
  19. Rukee

    Rukee Coffee overclocks the overclocker!!

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    prove he doesn`t exist.

    If this all happened by random chance and the earth turn out so wonderful without any intervention then it only stands to reason there should be other like instances in the universe of the same thing....
     
  20. bobtheking

    bobtheking Monkey in a bucket

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    think about how many atoms of carbon, oxygen, etc. there are on earth. lets assume only 1/1000000 atoms is carbon (i'm guessing its much higher, but this is plenty high enough).
    Code:
    (5.9 * 10^27 / 12) * 6.02 * 10^23 = 2.959 * 10^50
    
    5.9 * 10^27 = mass of the earth in grams
    12 = gfm of carbon
    6.02 * 10^23 = avagardo's (i believe, i could be wrong) constant, the number of atoms in a mol.

    now imagine them all moving about eachother for billions of years. now imagine possibly infinite planets just like ours.

    i still have no explanation for the very beginning, but i'm not going to jump straight to some 3000 year old con artist's tool that told me god made it. that is the difference between science and religion, we are willing to test our theories, and right now evolution is the best we've got. if something better comes along, i as well as i'm sure any other rational people will then repeat what we've done with evolution, try to prove or disprove it. i don't think evolution will ever been disproven, but i don't think it is complete either. what do you possibly hope to learn by just blindly believing very contrived bull****, among a sea of other bull**** that has been proven wrong?

    edit: i just realized carbon is 12, not 14. i made the same mistake on a test once also.
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2004

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