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Religious/Evolutionary Debate Thread

Discussion in 'Other Stuff' started by QUALTHWAR, Dec 2, 2004.

  1. Rukee

    Rukee Coffee overclocks the overclocker!!

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    spam!!






    just to get the 500th post. :)
     
  2. ReD_Fist

    ReD_Fist New Member

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    Well I havnt read the latest,however,anyone out there who has the inc-ling to actualy trust and have belief and faith in somthing.
    I don't see why the bible-God is so hard to believe,wethor or not when the sun Nova's who's to say it wasn't God who nova's the sun........................................

    And trust me BIG TIME when I say I am the most analytical thinker in the world,nothing gets past me that I know somethings up.
    And as I see it it's all too good and perfectly working so far as He planned it,wether it be human biolegy or physics,regardless I think the same way you anti believers do ,more than you would think.
    But nothing (on my own) can think this all happened by time rendering nor chance.

    And added the fact that EVERY RACE ON EARTH believs in a higher being,so all you anti people out there who NEED to logicaly figure it out can just live with yourselves but you know..................................

    Egypt pyramids etc etc.....totem poles,the list goes on,but there is only one God
    (too many cooks spoil the broth) so to speak........
     
  3. Dying_corpse

    Dying_corpse New Member

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    no
     
  4. ReD_Fist

    ReD_Fist New Member

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    It just says in the bible,basicaly to apreciate god as in going to church,he leaves it up to you,all God wants is normal people acting on a normal planet,no racism,war etc etc spite ,hate,crime, ,but I guess He exspects us to visit his house once a week,And I am guilty of that for 20 years or more now,BUT it don't take away from the good of it all.

    Much better,than trying to figure it out,but go for it ..
     
  5. bobtheking

    bobtheking Monkey in a bucket

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    heh. you believe contrived stories like god tilting the earth created a flood, yet you consider yourself an analytical thinker? wow.
    it just seems that way because you only have one case out of potentially infinite to judge that.
    every culture on earth also thought the world was flat and the center of the universe.
     
  6. Evil_Cope

    Evil_Cope For the Win, motherfather!

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    I seem to remember from the macgregor days that taoism, an ancient belief system, doesn't actually center around a god.

    I seem to think that many primitive tribes/ancient cultures believe more heavily in spirits than a "God" figure, or the power of their ancestors watching over them even.

    Many cultures believed their many Gods were petty, cruel and ultimately dangerous.

    Also, unless i'm greatly mistaken, Children are not born with an intrinsic knoledge of some higher power. They are taught the concept of God by the culture that surrounds them. This seems to me to imply, to some small degree, that "God" is far from a universal, natural idea that will occur to any group of people given time.

    I'm no expert on world culture, but then, i wouldn't say any of us were in a position to claim if all cultures there are and have ever been believe in anything or nothing.
     
  7. Evil_Cope

    Evil_Cope For the Win, motherfather!

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    As much as I disagree with Cat_Fuzz, Stahkanov you are just being rude, now.
     
  8. Frostblood

    Frostblood Strangely compelling...

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    Taoism doesn't center around a god exactly, neither does Buddhism or some forms of Hinduism. They all involve supernatural beings, but generally they're not central, so some believers don't accept them. That's fairly new, though. Most people in history have believed in gods, spirits, angels, etc.

    Movements that are more like modern atheism existed in ancient Greece and also ancient India. They were never very popular as far as I can tell.
     
  9. Cat Fuzz

    Cat Fuzz Qualthwar's Minion. Ph34r!

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  10. Chrysaor

    Chrysaor Lord of the Pants

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    My opinion of how must indigenous religions start out is that they don't. The idea that a culture is separate from its religion only happens within the last few hundred years. It is the duty of a culture to establish a good morals in children, like all those very old religious tales do. They have to tell how the world works as well, but a lot of those are centered around helping people understand farming and seasons and what not. They recognized 'movers' that acted in their environment, and most early cultures had a big connection with some sort of spiritual world or spirits in ours, but it's still different. Apart from being a cultural construct, it's used to explain the unknown. Science fills that knowledge gap today, so any God must be wholy supernatural. Older cultures just used anthropomorphic (that means they behave like men :p ) figures to make life more colorful to talk about. There's little philosophy. Sorry this post rambled.
     
  11. GoAt

    GoAt Never wrong

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    the thing with christianity is that no 2 preachers teach the same way.

    when asked one pastor said that those that do not belive/do not acknoledge god (the christian god) regardless of their position (physical or mental) will be judged and spend an eternity in hell.
    another said that the bible is not clear on how those who cant understand christianity and how they will be judged
    a third said that those with disabilities will be accepted into the kingdom of heaven provided the accept christ into their lives before entering the gates and those with mental disorders, those handicaps will be eliminated and that person shall see all and understand all as those who understood all along.



    but why must we humans be subjected to religion? what prevents animals from being banished?
    what defines a "clean" and "unclean" beast?
     
  12. GoAt

    GoAt Never wrong

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    the issue that no 2 preachers teach the same way brings up contradictions.

    1 god
    1 messiah
    1 book
    1 way to teach

    but yet, everyone interperts it differently

    so no, how is one supposed to know wich person is spreading the correct and TRUE word of god, not just the way they think and the way they want others to view it as.
     
  13. QUALTHWAR

    QUALTHWAR Baitshop opening soon.

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    That’s real nice there Jocko, but you’ve basically said nada. All you said is if we don’t believe, we are wrong, but you haven’t really given us a reason why we are wrong. You’re not analytically thinking about much of anything, as far as I can discern.

    Give us some valid examples as to why we are wrong. “it’s perfectly working, so far?” Huh? What’s perfect? Have you looked outside lately? Nothing is perfect. The world is a bitch to live in.

    “every race on earth believes in a higher being” And that’s supposed to be some sort of proof? Oh, a crap load of people think there is a god, therefore, there is a god.

    A crap load of people think because they see a smoky fog coming out of their hood that their car is overheating. Doesn’t make it so. Maybe they drove through water. Maybe they have an electrical fire under the hood. Maybe they have an oil leak getting on the exhaust. Be careful and don’t drive too far. The world is flat. :rolleyes:
     
  14. QUALTHWAR

    QUALTHWAR Baitshop opening soon.

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    Wait a minute. If a god is not a ‘supernatural being’ then what is he/she/it? A god doesn’t seem natural to me.
     
  15. QUALTHWAR

    QUALTHWAR Baitshop opening soon.

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    I think you have the basic idea in a way. People needed something to curtail their raping and pillaging and religion was invented. It’s the ultimate black and white; good versus evil. The scholars of the day were most likely smarter than the people picking up dung behind a heard of sheep, and they could easily fool their inferior brother with sweet talk. Trouble is, as we evolve and gain knowledge, the bible stories start to make no sense.

    Yeah, I’m going to go find all the animals in the whole, freakin’ world and put them all on one boat. They are going to live there for 40 days and I’m going to have enough of the “right kind” of food to keep all these different species alive. I’m going to make a big-ass shovel so I can throw the estimated 4.8 tons of crap overboard daily. Then all these animals will have no problem populating the earth and I won’t have any problems either because I know a bar in the mountains with large-breasted women so I won’t be ****ing my sister as I repopulate the entire world.
     
  16. Chrysaor

    Chrysaor Lord of the Pants

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    You still make religion out to be some sort of control mechanism. Sometimes it appears that way, but it's really just as important as everything else in the indigenous persons world, not a separate belief.

    I don't take the god I believe in, nor the god that eastern mystics believe in, to mean "supernatural". It's just a way of explaining aspects of nature. Super indicates that there is another consciousness on another world of some sort which comes down to ours to effect things.
     
  17. Mister_Prophet

    Mister_Prophet .

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    Nah it started out as a way to control primitive people and over time became more of a real belief structure rather than a way to spook people into doing what you say. For all the crap I give religion nowadays for the excuses people use it for to explain their atrocities...it's really nothing compared to the corrupt carnage it used to be.
     
  18. Chrysaor

    Chrysaor Lord of the Pants

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    No, really it didn't. Among Neolithic and Mesolithic cultures, religion was a mutual, community wide expression of worldview. Sometimes that power was vested in Shamans or Priests, but they never took power by it. When religion was first starting, humans were only grouping in tribes and chiefdoms which are not ruled by religious icons. They are ruled almost absolutely by warlords and secular patriarchs. Population density was low enough that people could break off and go somewhere else if they were unhappy with rule. And seizing power religiously has no threat, seizing it from a warlord does have a retalitory effect.

    Now, in Mesopotamia, the Indus, and Nile Valleys, the population density gets high enough that religion is state sponsored, but it still doesn't look like it's used as a control mechanism for awhile, and then only prominently in Egypt. (which I would argue was a huge benefit to the people.) The Holy Roman Empire is the only controlling religious state I can think of that has been any great importance. Sometimes empires look like they're driven by religion, but that's really just a coincidence. Remember culture = religion. Conflicts of culture are the only way we have wars, so it's obvious that we'll often have those same groups conflicting on religion as well.
     
  19. Zlal

    Zlal New but not improved.

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    Erm... the Crusaders? (Well, really just the major european countries in the middle ages) Important and religiously driven.

    You underestimate conflict of religion. It's everwhere, and for a long time really was one of the only reasons for people to go to war. Even in the last century there was massive conflict over religion - look at Ireland and the problems between protestant and catholic peoples there.
     
  20. Zlal

    Zlal New but not improved.

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    :lol:
     

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