Regarding ONS vehicles and UT/U2xmp.

  • Two Factor Authentication is now available on BeyondUnreal Forums. To configure it, visit your Profile and look for the "Two Step Verification" option on the left side. We can send codes via email (may be slower) or you can set up any TOTP Authenticator app on your phone (Authy, Google Authenticator, etc) to deliver codes. It is highly recommended that you configure this to keep your account safe.

Maestro PaN

Turret Whore
Feb 15, 2005
28
0
0
44
Tampa, FL
www.livejournal.com
Personally, I'm not entirely fond of onslaught vehicles, but don't mind playing on maps which incorporate them because it usually only takes one or two shotgun blasts to take them out. I don't have as much fun when maps don't incorporate ONS vehicles into existing xmp gameplay, but instead have ONS vehicles solely for the sake of ONS vehicles in the xmp world.
I'm happy with the selection of vehicles XMP offers. I don't think xmp necessarily needs flying vehicles. I don't think xmp should be a vehicle game. I think vehicles should exist as another tool, but the individual classes should drive the game, since class-based gameplay is what the game is trying to invoke.
Omni, my roomate, just picked up another copy of Unreal 2, and I've just recently been able to play u2xmp to see exactly how much different or "better" it is than utxmp. For vehicles, I'm still undecided on which version I enjoy better. On one hand, I like the realism u2xmp's vehicles offer. On the other hand I enjoy how utxmp turns them into a more viable option during gameplay, but maybe they only seem more viable because they are what I know. Omni and I played u2xmp on a LAN because we couldn't find any servers on the server list. I'm thinking u2xmp's vehicles might increase in value with actual team gameplay.
Before just recently having been introduced to UT, I was a strictly counter-strike FPS gamer for about 6 years. I really prefer team orientated over how-many-points-can-I-get games. When I started to play UT, I mostly enjoyed team deathmatch and assault. Onslaught was fun, but I was never really into the vehicles. I wasn't very good in them, and they seemed to be the key to winning maps.
I like xmp because of its lack of K/D ratios. It's all about artifacts. If a team can work together to control resources, defend and get those artifacts, it will win. I also enjoy it for its gritty realism. Some of the ONS vehicles seem to detract from that for me. I just can't picture, realistically, how a gunner, tech, ranger, or small combined force of those three would be able to take out a flying vehicle with incredible speed and firing power. I am aware that it's usually easy to shoot down an ONS raptor, but it shouldn't be. If it wasn't, gameplay would suffer. As it is, my immersion into the xmp world is lessened. These vehicles are fine in Onslaught and other Unreal Tournament gametypes because their feel is more.. arcade. More like a game. More cartoonish. I can't think of a better description right now.
Also, in regards to the utxmp vs u2xmp debate--keep in mind I only have limited experience with u2xmp--I feel both versions of xmp are pretty damned close. I probably haven't gotten to high enough levels of gameplay with u2xmp to let the minor details in utxmp bother me that much, or maybe veteran u2xmp gamers feel toward utxmp the way I feel toward u2xmp: something differen't. Not familiar. A similar but altered set of rules. We just wan't more of what we're comfortable with.
I apologize if this was hard to follow. I tend to ramble. Thoughts?
 
Last edited:

Spacelord (GER)

Apocalypse Dude
Feb 12, 2004
123
0
0
Germany
On one hand, I like the realism u2xmp's vehicles offer
Yeah esp. the flippin harbinger :lol:

ONS Vehicles in XMP are great fun if left away from public gameplay and used on special maps. As u said - the main problem is the balance.
 

T-Shinzon

New Member
Sep 28, 2004
161
0
0
Balance.

ONS vehicles are designed for just that: ONS. Onslaught is basically vehicle domination/assault at its basic form, as those vehicles ARE the key to each map. There are a few player-based ONS levels, but the majority are vehicular. To balance this out from total pedestrian pwnage, the vehicles are weakened or moreso made vulnerable to a couple handheld weapons. It all balances out quite nicely, in Onslaught that is.

In XMP, the balance is messed up. By adding flying vehicles, for instance, the concept of the "arty run" is all but completely changed. Flying vehicles are not restricted to the ground obviously, and that means much faster transportation. I disagree with them being easy to shoot down; I can dodge almost any Raptor to Raptor missile easily, and gunner rockets I can outrun with no effort. Sniper bullets are for all practical purposes impossible to dodge but they take a while to really do damage.

ONS vehicles, are, IMO, fine for "fun" maps. Using them actually irritates me somewhat since players don't sit right in them, scaling is wrong, etc., but I'm not radically against them or anything. But what I hate to see is when every other map has ONS vehicles in them. ONS vehicles IMO sorta "taint" the delicate balance XMP has maintained. For this reason I am also kinda in disagreement with the UTXMP vehicles; some of them feel too much like ONS vehicles. I realize that those vehicle classes are actually derived from the ONS vehicle base classes (being the sly code-snooper I am).

Hmmm...ONS vehicles are a strange controversy.
 

dutch_gecko

Think Pink
Jun 16, 2004
1,882
1
0
www.dutch-gecko.co.uk
I think Maestro Pan hit the nail on the head here. The problem with introducing any new vehicle to XMP, be it an ONS vehicle or a completely new creation, is that usually the balance will suffer.
One of the old U2XMP players was working on an assault bike that looked really promising. The idea was that it would only be included in certain maps, maps which were designed with the bike in mind so that it wouldn't dominate. It was never realeased, but there were screenies of it kicking about in these forums a few months back so it may just get resurrected.

As for the master server being broken, hop on over to the U2XMP Forums, where you can find us horrible lot bickering, as well as a useful server list.
 

shoptroll

Active Member
Jan 21, 2004
2,226
2
38
41
I'm with Dand and Shiznon

I just played a round of IslandHopNoBridges last night (no other server had people :( ), and it didn't make for good gameplay.

As far as I can tell, the ONS vehicles don't use any energy which is a balance issue in itsself. The cicada didn't fly right, and i just didn't like the experience one bit. Not to mention the fact that someone stuck an energy source in the volcano (i think), which required you fly up to it. Not cool.
 
Jan 13, 2005
113
0
0
Tampa FL
www.
ok... i converted island hop no bridges as a just for a laugh map... hahaha! it is a little funny but not anyhting i would consider a serious playing map. island hop bridgewars is a serious map outside of the one ons vehicle in it. due to the debate i will make 2 versions of all maps that i convert. one for real with only xmp stuff and one for fun with ons. i do agree that new vehicles upset the balance and will take that into consideration when converting new maps. utxmp vehicles are very cool but whatever u do FMI please dont force the first person veiw in vehicles like in u2xmp... i hated that casue you cant drive for shizzle. the idea about having to get out to switch seats is a good one though....
 

shoptroll

Active Member
Jan 21, 2004
2,226
2
38
41
Ah. Thanks for clarifying on that.

theomniproject said:
ok... i converted island hop no bridges as a just for a laugh map... hahaha! it is a little funny but not anyhting i would consider a serious playing map. island hop bridgewars is a serious map outside of the one ons vehicle in it. due to the debate i will make 2 versions of all maps that i convert. one for real with only xmp stuff and one for fun with ons. i do agree that new vehicles upset the balance and will take that into consideration when converting new maps. utxmp vehicles are very cool but whatever u do FMI please dont force the first person veiw in vehicles like in u2xmp... i hated that casue you cant drive for shizzle. the idea about having to get out to switch seats is a good one though....
 

PRG

XMP Beta Tester
Nov 11, 2003
722
0
0
Visit site
theomniproject said:
the idea about having to get out to switch seats is a good one though....

The more I play around with UTXMP, the less I like the ONS style vehicle switching. XMP vehicles really do have a totally different balance and function in gameplay than ONS vehicles despite the obvious similarities.
I hope eventually they change this back to U2XMP style vehicle stations.
 

KillaALF

New Member
Mar 9, 2004
47
0
0
theomniproject said:
utxmp vehicles are very cool but whatever u do FMI please dont force the first person veiw in vehicles like in u2xmp...

Did you even play u2xmp? First person view is not forced on you, there's even a setting in the options (under 'input') to set vehicles to third person view by default, DOH!
 
Jan 13, 2005
113
0
0
Tampa FL
www.
ok... i obviously didnt play the origional long enough to know that u didnt have to veiw first person in vehicles, and thank god, or else nobody would ever use them. lol. i whole heartedly agree about making you have to get out of the vehicle to switch seats, and im sure that all the people i have killed in a juggy repeatedly would agree as well. are u always forced to use a vehicle turret in first person as well? just curious cause as of now i cant hit sheit in a turret unless the vehicle is standing still, but maby that is the point.
 

KillaALF

New Member
Mar 9, 2004
47
0
0
theomniproject said:
are u always forced to use a vehicle turret in first person as well?

Yep, turrets (all of them, not only vehicles) are first person only. I also don't like UTXMP's method of switching seats, I much prefer U2XMP's.
 

Peter Carlson

XMP Programmer
Sep 4, 2003
275
0
0
Have any of you guys tried UTXMP's mousesteering feature? (which I know U2XMP didn't have and which I think UT2004 didn't have)
I think it's very cool, especially if you have a ****ty ping.
 

PRG

XMP Beta Tester
Nov 11, 2003
722
0
0
Visit site
Peter Carlson said:
Have any of you guys tried UTXMP's mousesteering feature? (which I know U2XMP didn't have and which I think UT2004 didn't have)
I think it's very cool, especially if you have a ****ty ping.

LOL, I didn't even know about that, let alone do any testing on it...
 

T-Shinzon

New Member
Sep 28, 2004
161
0
0
I believe turrets are first person forced, and in vehicles have that static overlay for balance issues.

The UTXMP switching seats feature, as has been mentioned much before, is kinda annoying, since the Jugg for one basically becomes a one-man vehicle.

MouseSteering feature?? Cool, I'll take a look.
 

Dandeloreon1984

CXP Director
Jan 31, 2004
1,303
0
0
Peter Carlson said:
Have any of you guys tried UTXMP's mousesteering feature? (which I know U2XMP didn't have and which I think UT2004 didn't have)
I think it's very cool, especially if you have a ****ty ping.


i know that ut2k4 has it as a option ( if you code it right )... but it's very sensative, and needs a lot of work... personally i think it should be integrated into one of the epic vehicles with a option to test it with a mutator.