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Realism. THE EFFECTS.

Discussion in 'New Version Suggestions' started by [amel_#umper, May 26, 2001.

  1. zefran

    zefran New Member

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    Realism in combat according to special operations soldiers, and hell, soldiers in general. Doing what you have to do and thats that. There are no feelings in it, atleast not at the moment of combat. Your a trained soldier, and that is the part of your brain that takes over. You just do it. So, to make a realistic simulation of that style of combat is very, well, I don't want to say easy, but you certainly don't have to program aspects of feelings and all that crap into it. It all becomes a physical game, and, with the length of combat in INF in one round, your physical supply will be mostly endless. Now, you cant run EVERYWHERE, but in real life, you dont run everywhere, you move in a controlled manner as you be able to destroy the enemy in the most effective method you know how. If that means carrying 23 203 rounds, so be it if they are going after realism. Does that mean everyone get to carry a 203, NO, because that is not realism. Everyone else will carry small arms (rifles, pistols and such). The goal of INF is to model every physical aspect of combat into the game. Will it be fun, HELL GOD DAMN YES it will be fun. Everytime I did any kind of combat training in the military, it was GOD DAMN fun! CQB, the best. We used to do it with those plastic bb guns when we were off work because we god damn enjoyed it. Thats what being a soldier is anyway. Not just doing the job, but really really loving it. If you don't want a game modeled after real life, go play UT and fly around with teleporters and 50 round rocketlauchers and all that crap. It you want a game modeled after physical combat realism, then play INF. For the rest of you vaganized people, go play Barbies Ranger Pet rescue or what ever the hell its called.

    Thanks for playing, please come back.

    -Jason
     
  2. BrownCow

    BrownCow I Heart Gnat.

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    I seem to remember the USA's "trained soliders" getting a beating in Vietnam. Do they still teach history?

    As far as no feelings in combat. Have you even been in a war? Any type of battle at all aside from your childhood bb gun wars?

    I have many realtives that were in Vietnam and WWII and i know for a fact "feelings" are a huge part of combat. Shellshock anyone? All you military buffs who liked Saving Private Ryan so much.. There were plenty of emotions in that movie. I'm assuming the movie potraied combat in a realistic manor, i recall that was it's objective.

    So if INF is going to one day be a "realistic war simulator" i'm afraid it would need emotions. Unless of course you feel you have the power to redefine the world realistic.
     
  3. Sebu_NZ

    Sebu_NZ Kalashnikov's Personal Pimp!

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    That would be true for a all drawn out battle such as a full scale war. But with small operations, the emtions don't come until after the op has taken place.
     
  4. Mason

    Mason Self appointed voice of reason

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    Cow, are you purposely trying to antagonize people? The U.S. lost Vietnam due to the public being against the war and exerting pressure until troops were withdrawn. Read the history and check out the battles, the U.S. won most major battles(don't even talk about the 'Tet Offensive', that was not a victory for North Vietnam), the problem was that the soldiers and their superiors were never 'cut loose' to fight the war the way it was meant to be fought. Had the U.S. had the same mindset going into Vietnam as in Desert Storm or WWII, there would be a McDonalds and a Disneyland in Hanoi right now.

    I think we have done a decent job trying to explain that we mean 'realistic' in the way that military wargames are realistic. There isn't a lot of emotion involved in them, after all they ARE merely games, but they serve a useful purpose in the military. Now I'm not saying Infiltration is a substitute or is exactly the same, but the Inf. team is striving to come as close as they can to the 'purely physical' aspects of war. The Army has used a version of "Delta Force, Landwarrior" as a training tool, so these games are obviously good for something. Personally, I think Infiltration might be better suited, at least with respects to the CQB aspects.:cool:
     
  5. SoSilencer

    SoSilencer Harry Goz (1932 - 2003)

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    The whole Tupac shooting thing is a moot point. Maybe Tupac did survive 5 shots to the chest, maybe that guy did survive 8 P90 shots to the chest, but I doubt either one of them was in any condition to stand up and shoot back at me. Death in INF doesn't always mean death it just means incapacitation. Sometimes this is death, sometimes it is just being hurt so bad that you can't really fight back.

    Also, many of the arguments showing how INF is still unrealistic such as falling 10 feet and not hurting your leg are also unimportant. These features may not currently exist in the game but the roadmaps clearly states how systems to account for such situations are planned.

    We aren't saying that everything is perfect we're just saying that INF is already the most realistic game out there and that as time goes on we want to continue this trend and make it more and more realistic, not give up everything that has been worked so hard for and go back to action gaming. There are enough action based 'realism' mods out there and all of them are action games packaged in a realistic looking box. Underneath all that realistic art and model work it's still an action game though. We don't want that, we want realism on the inside too. It's a big box to fill though so it's just taking a while.
     
  6. BrownCow

    BrownCow I Heart Gnat.

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    ok, thats fine. But i still don't understand what is realistic about inf to begin with, minus the guns. Is it just "put real guns in a game and slap a realism sticker on it"?
     
  7. zefran

    zefran New Member

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    I learned alot about Vietnam in the 5 years I spent as a trained infantry soldier in the US army. My Seargent Major was in Vietnam. So I do know alot about it. So no, we were not getting a beat down in vietnam. Now, we did lose some battles, but read any books or talk to anyone who was in SF or was a ranger in Vietnam and you will see, during combat, there was not a whole lot of emotion going on. Most people who go into a combat situation have the feeling of, well, its what I gotta do, so I'll just go do it. Emotions do come into play, but usually not until after the fact.

    -Jason
     
  8. DarkBls

    DarkBls Inf Ex-admin

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    BrownCow wait for the final version to say it is realist or not !
     
  9. RavenStarSinger

    RavenStarSinger I can make you die laughing or just shoot you

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    Just my two cents

    Sure, you can hit yourself in the head with an ejected casing. What I REALLY love is when they hold the gun OVER THEIR HEAD, tilted to the side, pointing down at someone. Yup, break your wrist, miss your target, and leave yourself WIDE OPEN for someone to a)shoot you in the chest b)stab you in the chest or c)kick you in the jimmy. Urban Menace? Nope, Urban dumba$$!
     
  10. BrownCow

    BrownCow I Heart Gnat.

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    Considering i'm sure the INF team will be working on this mod till the day they die. I don't got that kinda waiting time :p
     
  11. Puncher

    Puncher AFA member

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    Gangsta style shooting

    A friend of mine, on the first time he shot a pistol, tried doing it Miami Vicec style. You know, like putting your thumb on top of the slide. When he pulled the trigger the recoil pushed the slide back, and his thumb nail was torn off :)
     
  12. RavenStarSinger

    RavenStarSinger I can make you die laughing or just shoot you

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    Heh heh . . . I know someone who tried that, almost broke his thumb. I also know someone who tried shooting a 1911 colt .45ACP "gangsta style" and had the recoil actually throw the gun out of his hand and bounce off his thick skull. He was doing it like I said in my last post, with the gun up over his head, holding it sideways, but I guess he didn't have a very good grip, cuz the gun went *BANG*, and next thing I know Mike is holding his forehead and the gun was on the ground.

    Actually, I do have to say that I like the aiming mode for this game. Looking at it, it seems that the Inf team really took the time to learn how to properly hold a handgun in order to 1)aim properly and 2)most effectively counter-act recoil. KUDOS, GUYS!
     
  13. Puncher

    Puncher AFA member

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    As far as I know a lot of the team has fireams/military XP so they should know how to hold a pistol :)
    Only the sighting through iron sighting isn't too accurate. In real life you hold the sights much closer to your eyes to get a real sight picture. Therefore much more of your view is obscured, so you usually only really aim when you have a target. But as Shakken stated sometime before UT messes up the models due to the large FOV if you place them too close to the camera.
     
  14. RavenStarSinger

    RavenStarSinger I can make you die laughing or just shoot you

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    Yes, it WOULD be very difficult to aim accurately, or even to hold your aim on one spot, with the gun held at arms length, but I also just took it as a given that it was either a system constraint, or a matter of making the game more playable (after all, it would be kinda hard to play if you can't see half the terrain in front of you when you are aiming). I do have a question about the PSG-1, though . . . is the scope zoomable? I have figured out how to turn on the scope illuminator, and I have figured out how to use the zoom on the ROBAR .50BMB, I was just wondering if maybe the PSG-1 zooms differently, or if there is just no zoom feature at all?
    I can tell you one thing I would LOVE to see in this game, as well, although I am sure it has been brought up. I THINK the military designation is either M3 or M4, but all it really is is a slightly modified scope-mounted Springfield .30-06 bolt-action rifle. I know some people might think it's stupid (after all, the ROBAR has a longer range, and fires a more devastating round), but I think those of us who have fired the rifle, and enjoy it in general, might like to see its battle-field applications. Just a thought :)
     
  15. zefran

    zefran New Member

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    I think your thinking of the M24 sniper rifle that we used in the infantry.


    -Jason
     
  16. Puncher

    Puncher AFA member

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    The PSG-1 has a fixed 6x magnification scope which cannot be removed or replaced. That way the scope will never lose zero.
    In real life you only aim when you have a target, since you can't see s*** through the sights except your target. That's why you don't run around all over the place with your weapon aimed, but rather with the barrel pointed down.
     
  17. zefran

    zefran New Member

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    Also you should tuck the butt of the weapon up under your arm to make the rifle look shorter and not so much like a sniper rifle so if someone does spot you from far away, they think your just regular ol' infantry instead of a spawn from hell.
     
  18. Puncher

    Puncher AFA member

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    As far as I know snipers are taught to carry the weapon flush with their bodies.

    By the way, the M3 is the "grease gun" of WWII "fame." It was also carried by some South Vietnamese volunteers during the Vietnam War (or American War as they call it in Vietnam).
     
  19. The_Fur

    The_Fur Back in black

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    lol, have to add this one to my "go play"list :D
    BTW, i completely agree with zefran that is what inf should be like.
     
  20. zefran

    zefran New Member

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    I guess I should clarify what I'm talking about.

    Alot of times snipers will move with a squad or platoon of infantry map until they reach the breakoff point from the squad. It is during this time when he will carry the rifle under his arm to make the rifle look shorter than it really is. When the sniper and his spotter break off and move on to their objective, the sniper will usually just carry the weapon at the ready like you would with any rifle in the military. It doesn't matter at this point how he carries it at this point because he is trying his hardest to not be seen.


    -Jason
     

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