1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. Two Factor Authentication is now available on BeyondUnreal Forums. To configure it, visit your Profile and look for the "Two Step Verification" option on the left side. We can send codes via email (may be slower) or you can set up any TOTP Authenticator app on your phone (Authy, Google Authenticator, etc) to deliver codes. It is highly recommended that you configure this to keep your account safe.

Real Time Strategy games

Discussion in 'Games' started by Jacks:Revenge, Jan 8, 2012.

  1. Jacks:Revenge

    Jacks:Revenge ╠╣E╚╚O

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2006
    Messages:
    10,064
    Likes Received:
    216
    I don't play a lot of RTS because a lot of them don't appeal to me.
    but it doesn't mean that I don't care for the genre. I've come across a handful of RTS over the years that I really enjoyed and played the hell out of. and lately I've been kind of itching for a new one although my attention has been taken with all the great FPS and RPG's that have come out this last year.

    frankly I wouldn't know where to begin looking since RTS have been under my radar for awhile now. honestly though my framework for an enjoyable RTS comes from my original favorite Command & Conquer; namely the original and the sequel Tiberian Sun. I don't know how many people played Tib Sun or remember it, but it really stood out to me because of the varied gameplay.
    instead of every mission boiling down to zerging or simply being faster than your opponent, there was real importance placed on the balance of offense and defense. you couldn't merely overwhelm the other guy with an attack force if he was smart about building his base because a good base was almost impregnable. but if you only focused on a large, tough base then you'd eventually run out of resources to build an attack force when it came time to finish off the enemy. you can't leave your base defenseless but you can't just sit back either.

    and then some maps weren't about base management at all.
    there were these great clandestine-style missions where you're dropped in with a small but specialized group of units who are vastly outnumbered but capable of taking out an entire enemy army through guerrilla warfare. like capturing enemy base components or units and using it against them, destroying key pieces of logistics (power/economy) to expose weakness, luring important units away from their defenses and kidnapping or assassinating them, and things of that nature. these guerrilla-type missions were usually optional but tied into the primary mission for that "level." by completing one of the optional assignments you would gain some kind of special advantage during the main mission. this often took the form of free aid from elite or unique units, a window of opportunity when the enemies defense was lowered, or extra starting resources.

    are there any RTS like this in today's market?
    I'm more concerned with finding a well-rounded single player experience than any kind of multiplayer. I have no interest in trying to prove that I can click faster than some anonymous person. I just want a good challenge and some versatility in gameplay. land units, air units, sea units, subterranean units, small units, large units, units that attack, units that defend, units that support (engineer/medic). all that good shit.

    are there any RTS that place an emphasis on base building?
    not just mass unit production. I really loved how C&C came with a variety of base tools like sandbag trenches, barb wire fences, concrete walls, electrified/firestorm walls, etc. you could even pave your entire base with cement to prevent subterranean units from burrowing beneath your defenses and popping up behind them. then there were machine gun nests, laser turrets, RPG towers, SAM sites, and a host of static defense positions that could be attached to your walls.

    oh and don't forget the occasional super weapon.
    one faction had access to the ion cannon while the opposing faction could launch a cluster bomb or chemical missile. they could only be used sparingly but were devastating if placed well.
     
  2. SnaKe-Fu

    SnaKe-Fu Thread Killer.

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2000
    Messages:
    839
    Likes Received:
    0
    Supreme Commander.
     
  3. hal

    hal Dictator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 1998
    Messages:
    21,405
    Likes Received:
    18
    Supreme Commander/Forged Alliance (SupCom Gold, basically) offers a really good singleplayer experience imo. With the entire thing installed you have campaigns for all four factions. There are tons of user made maps and the AI offers a pretty good fight. Land, Air, Sea units, massive scale (you can fight up to 7 other AI/Human teams) and not much in the way of micromanaging.

    Supreme Commander 2 got tons of criticism when it was launched because it added a tech tree and simplified the economy. It definitely streamlines the game and makes some of your choices more straightforward and eliminates some of the redundant/overlapping units. Since it was launched it got tons of support and a really outstanding DLC. Now the AI offers a tough fight and there is a good variety of units. It's worth a look since it goes so cheap during sales. I enjoy it a lot now, whereas at launch I was quite disappointed.

    I'm just getting into Dawn of War II, specifically the Retribution version. It seems very cool, but being new to the series I can't quite say if it offers what you seek.

    You might just want to give Command and Conquer 3 a look since you were so into that series. It's pretty well regarded.
     
  4. Sir_Brizz

    Sir_Brizz Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2000
    Messages:
    25,995
    Likes Received:
    75
    Just don't get C&C4 unless you want to let the disappointment settle in :p

    If you're looking for non-Bizzard RTSes, there isn't a whole lot I'd recommend right now. TA Spring is around if you want something more old school but up to date with engine enhancements (it's a freeware RTS along the lines of Total Annihilation). Supcom/Forged Alliance and SupCom 2 are fun and easy to recommend.

    I didn't like Sins of a Solar Empire really.
     
  5. SleepyHe4d

    SleepyHe4d fap fap fap

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2008
    Messages:
    4,152
    Likes Received:
    0
    This post came out longer than expected, so tl;dr = bold text.

    Are you asking for a RTS with a good single player campaign or a RTS with good Player VS AI mode, or maybe both? I know you say you don't want that competitive online hardcore micro stuff, but just because a game HAS that, it doesn't mean the single player is like that. It's just based on how you play the game.

    You may not realize that Tiberian Sun or other CnC games, when played online, DOES boil down to those same types of tactics. Also CnC games may not be as strategically deep as how they seemed to you, compared to the other games you're hinting at, even though that is the experience you got from CnC single player. Just pointing that out so maybe you'll give those other games a chance and not base it on what you've seen of their MP competitive world.

    Having said that, even though I think the Starcraft 2 campaign sucked, the "VS" mode is extremely strategically deep so maybe you could have fun with just doing Player VS AI battles. If it's the campaign you're looking for, then other Blizzard RTS games have potential for that, such as Warcraft 3 or the original SC.

    However I do feel you on the base building aspect. I like being able to make defenses and stuff like that in the CnC series, and I will admit SC2 is a lot more about just blocking choke points, and doesn't focus much on base design. I'm not sure how WC3 goes on that aspect, but I think there's less of that "single choke point syndrome" in that game.

    One game that does remind me a lot of the base building and other aspects in CnC, and which I loved about this particular game, is Age Of Empires 2 (and the expansion). It's cool being able to build up a large fortress around your resources with different entrances and even setting up alliances and trade routes to other forts. Also being able to trade resources with the other forts. If anything, this would be my main recommendation to you to get the same feeling as the CnC single player campaign and skirmishes.

    Other notable games:

    Total War series such as Empire: Total War. The base and unit building takes place turned based on a world map, but is still fun. Once you get into the combat though it's just units, and that gets really fun too with strategic set-ups.

    Dungeon Keeper 1 and 2, not your traditional RTS, but fun making dungeon designs (Traps and locked doors included!) and defending them from invaders, ect. Not much difficulty though iirc. :( There seems to be a "thing" in the DK community to find more recent DK clones, but none of them look promising IMO. Beware of outdated graphics and incompatibility in the original 2 games.

    Age of Empires 3, though I didn't really get into that like I did with CnC skrims or AOE2 skrims. I don't really remember why, maybe it was shallow.
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2012
  6. xMurphyx

    xMurphyx New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2008
    Messages:
    1,502
    Likes Received:
    0
    CnC:Generals has the kind of singleplayer you want, I think.
     
  7. AlCapowned

    AlCapowned Member

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2010
    Messages:
    235
    Likes Received:
    15
    DoW II has very little base building in it. Essentially, you can reinforce power nodes, place generators, and make turrets depending on your faction/commander. The first DoW games have actual base building, but there's not really a focus on it.

    I would say Battle Realms has a subtle focus on base building (if you'd be interested in an older game), but I haven't played the C&C games enough to know how it compares. You create worker units (peasants) by building peasant huts, and then you send them into different buildings to make warriors. You can rotate your buildings, which will affect where your new soldiers appear and what directions your units face when they enter watchtowers. Each faction has a Keep to summon heroes, but they aren't as powerful as the heroes in games like Warcraft 3. Each faction has a special building, but I think only two of them count as super weapons. No unit between the four factions is the same, aside from the peasants.

    Unfortunately, the AI hasn't been very good ever since reviewers complained that it was too hard, there are a few annoying bugs, you have to change your resolution through a text file since the menu doesn't have a large selection, and the multiplayer is pretty much dead. The campaign mode is decent; you get to choose where to attack, and that determines what heroes help you if you're able to find them. There are a lot of aspects I left out, but I don't want to write an essay.

    I haven't haven't had time to play Star Ruler very much, but it's basically a more complex version of Sins of a Solar Empire. If you're looking for variety, you can customize your ships so they behave and look differently (like making a capital ship larger than a planet).
     
  8. Trynant

    Trynant Manic Brawler

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2002
    Messages:
    2,019
    Likes Received:
    1
    Sins of Solar Empire isn't necessarily a RTS as much as it is an RT4X, BUT it does have a lot of stuff beyond 'click to win with units.' Give a look at Sins if you want something like real-time civ in space, Jacks.
     
  9. ambershee

    ambershee Nimbusfish Rawks

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2006
    Messages:
    4,519
    Likes Received:
    7
    My problem with Sins is that it turned into a numbers-win game very quickly. If you weren't outproducing the opponent, you'd stalemate for hours.
     
  10. tomcat ha

    tomcat ha Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2002
    Messages:
    2,819
    Likes Received:
    56
    i just play men of war currently.
     
  11. DarkED

    DarkED The Great Oppression

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2006
    Messages:
    3,107
    Likes Received:
    13
    I know this doesn't really have any relevance to the OP's questions, but me and my roommate have been playing Age of Empires 2, Star Wars: Galactic Battlegrounds, and Empire Earth over LAN lately and we're having a ton of fun. Those games are ancient but are still some of the best RTSs around.

    Plus, the widescreen hacks for the first two make them look really good on my big 25" 1080p monitor.
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2012
  12. Vaskadar

    Vaskadar It's time I look back from outer space

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2008
    Messages:
    2,689
    Likes Received:
    52
    Dawn of War II is all micro-management focused, which is why I've enjoyed it. It's what sets it apart from other RTS games. If you're into the campaign, I'd recommend the first two in the series. After that, it got kinda meh.
     
  13. Sir_Brizz

    Sir_Brizz Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2000
    Messages:
    25,995
    Likes Received:
    75
    But do be forewarned... they used GFWL for these. Only Retribution is Steamworks (at least they learned their lesson).
     
  14. Jacks:Revenge

    Jacks:Revenge ╠╣E╚╚O

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2006
    Messages:
    10,064
    Likes Received:
    216
    thanks for the input guys.
    taking your suggestions I went to read some reviews and look at screenshots (perhaps more the latter than the former...) and decided to go with Sup Com, Command & Conquer 3: Tiberium Wars, and Age of Empires 2. and this is just to start out. it helps that each of these is pretty much in the bargain bin price range now along with their expansion packs all bundled together.

    assuming I enjoy Sup Com 1, I'll most likely get Sup Com 2 in the future.
    really looking forward to Tiberium Wars as a fan of the series; avoiding Tiberium Twilight (aka C&C4) because it doesn't use the base/resource gathering component which I enjoy the more than simply producing. also looking forward to Age of Empires because I've never played the series and it really does sound a lot like C&C in terms of gameplay. as Sleepy mentioned.

    also Sleepy, I realize even Tiberiun Sun comes down to zerg'ing when it's played online. but that's why I'm more interested in good singeplayer games than multiplay.
    oh and I've already been a long time fan of Total War. played through every installment starting with Rome up to Shogun 2. great stuff no doubt.

    I'm pretty intrigued by this Spring RTS engine that Blizz mentioned too.
    the fact that it's open source is pretty cool being that there are several different types of games that have been created within it.
     
  15. ambershee

    ambershee Nimbusfish Rawks

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2006
    Messages:
    4,519
    Likes Received:
    7
    Supreme Commander 1 and 2 are completely different games and have very little to do with one another except for namesake in title and the names of factions. I loved Supreme Commander although its pacing is rather slow in multiplayer.

    C&C3 was ok, but it quickly devolves into a retarded, high-speed clickfest trying to get units out as quickly as possible. I never bothered to play more than around half way through the GDI campaign, which says something as I'm normally an RTS completionist.
     
  16. Big-Al

    Big-Al amateur de bière

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2003
    Messages:
    8,579
    Likes Received:
    33
    I always liked Age of Empires 2 :)

    I wasn't that good at it though.
     
  17. hal

    hal Dictator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 1998
    Messages:
    21,405
    Likes Received:
    18
    My favorite of the "Age" series is Age of Mythology. The campaign was quite fun and the units are great.

    Oh, and Jacks... be sure and get SupCom Gold so that you get Forged Alliance as well. It's a real strong addition and adds a fourth campaign.
     
  18. Bi()ha2arD

    Bi()ha2arD Toxic!

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2009
    Messages:
    2,808
    Likes Received:
    0
  19. hal

    hal Dictator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 1998
    Messages:
    21,405
    Likes Received:
    18
    I'm the oddity in RTS fans in that I don't really like SC2. From what I know though, there isn't much in the way of base building in Starcraft 2, is there?
     
  20. xMurphyx

    xMurphyx New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2008
    Messages:
    1,502
    Likes Received:
    0
    Turtling isn't as effective as it could be, but you build bases just like in Warcraft, Age or CnC.
    You don't get your units flown in like in Ground Control 2, if that's what you mean.

    @Jacks: From your choices I predict you'll like CnC3 (but might have liked Generals even better) but will be a little disappointed with AoE2. Let us know what you think either way.
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2012

Share This Page