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Puff Puff Pass

Discussion in 'Unreal Tournament 3' started by Stilz, Mar 31, 2005.

?

Should the sniper have a puff of smoke.

  1. yes

    12 vote(s)
    30.0%
  2. no

    28 vote(s)
    70.0%
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  1. fresh&minty

    fresh&minty lollerbater

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    Bail means after first shot, swap out, not throw, sorry you fail. Next.

    The "balance" of the smoke cloud only works in noob situations. IE to jokers taking pot shots from across a map like face classic. Anybody who is out of the baby pool is just anoyed by it, perhaps because (shock) camping gets you nowhere.

    As for your "find him and shoot him" once again, this is a joke. No real match is decided on basis of the ability to hide and take pot shots. Even with the aim of a god (or an aimbot) your ability to affect the game vs good players is non existant. Your basicaly a spectator for your team... ie you don't count.

    Your also fairly ignorant if you think the problem with the UT sniper was that you can't trace it (hell you can't trace the mini or the ar). The problem with it was the high ROF, and the huge head shot box. The gun was practicaly an IG gun if you had a minimal amount of skill.

    Your honestly entirely wrong from a stand point of mid tier up. Perhaps on pubs or low tier your arguements might hold water.
     
  2. Radiosity

    Radiosity Minty Fresh!

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    You mean apart from all those bright yellow tracer rounds that the mini fires? And the AR is a joke anyway and doesn't need to be traced to it's source.
     
  3. fresh&minty

    fresh&minty lollerbater

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    well, the sniper fires a bright yellow round also, you can see it.
     
  4. -AEnubis-

    -AEnubis- fps greater than star

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    See, I understand the fact that this game is still played in pubs, despite the level of competition on servers that I play on, and have respect for the fact that it is that way. I don't believe the game should be catered to me because I'm better at it then the average "pub noob" as I'm sure you'd refer to them.

    Fact of the matter is the majority of players that play this game aren't that good at it, and to keep an online community they need to think about those people, and balance it some for them too.

    ...pubs are the ocean, you're swimming in lakes.

    I know what you mean by bail, but if it's between that, and getting shot while I wait for a switch, I'll drop it thanks :rolleyes:
     
  5. Parser

    Parser Hello

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    [​IMG]

    Hay guys, don't forget that people like these amazingly talented spotty teenagers own the entire world and that we are their righteous slaves in every respect because they're obviously elite by posting on a PRO FORUM. HURR.
     
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2005
  6. T2A`

    T2A` I'm dead.

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    Ignore him, please. If I'm not mistaken, he's on the same team as Maxtomato, and we all know how that ended up.
     
  7. fresh&minty

    fresh&minty lollerbater

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    @ Aenubis I realise entirely that "my" selective WS off scrims only balance is a drop in the ocean of what makes guns what. However this doesn't change the vailidity of my arguement. The sniper nerfs, do not nerf skilled players, they only nerf noobs (not regular, if you are trying to snipe your pond scum on the skill ladder). What good is a nerf that only hurts the people that suck to such an extent they should get a boost?

    If there is one thing I have a gripe with about this game (and the sniper rifle is a great example) it's weapons that are way to idiocyncratic to use and learn. It's not that they are weak, or hard to use (they aren't the entire game is fairly basic and way to easy) it's the that each weapon has such extremes of stupid that it bassicaly boils down to explointing the ever living crap out of something for a win. The current sniper, just isn't a viable option because it can't be exploited. I'm not talking about catering the game to "me and mine" I'm talking about not talent fools not knowing just why the balance is so fubar. Like it or not, it's the players at the top who can fix balance. Over balancing is part of the reason ut2kx is basicaly quake played with nerf guns.

    @parser

    your silly... the majority of the competitive "talented" players are fairly old gamers that have been at it since doom2. It's the noobs that are the teens.
     
  8. UnrealGrrl

    UnrealGrrl Enemy flag carrier is Her!

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    less smoke (theres no need to obscure so much) but add to that an obvious muzzle flash from a distance (like a camera flash) and or laser pointer thingy that could be seen from distance depending on your angle.... (edit) alot of this has to do with the fact that alot of maps are "sniper" influenced". this does not include most pro style or ladder maps which are not designed to be controlled by a sniper type position so much. but there is a huge community in the ut-verse of players that play only these types of maps or this style of play and thats who it should be making a big difference to...


    and p.s. if we could all get over the pro vs pub vs skilled vs n00b thing and work towards making the game better for all thatd be great right? the games never gonna be perfect for everyone but original UT appealed to both sides of the coin and it sounds like Epics gonna try to hit closer to that mark this time around, which is very cool too!
     
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2005
  9. Xaero

    Xaero Who Dey!

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    That has to be one of the stupidest things I've ever read....

    When is the last time you've even played Quake?
     
  10. fresh&minty

    fresh&minty lollerbater

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    today...

    And 2kx guns don't deal as nearly as much damage per hit
     
  11. Xaero

    Xaero Who Dey!

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    I get that part, but how in the world does it make "UT2kx basically Quake"?
     
  12. fresh&minty

    fresh&minty lollerbater

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    Because 2kx is closer to quake than ut99 was, mostly because the advantage of new movement makes it largely about movement skills.
     
  13. Mr.Magnetichead

    Mr.Magnetichead Banned

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    20 minutes ago.
     
  14. Sir_Brizz

    Sir_Brizz Administrator Staff Member

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    Um....last time I checked you couldn't dodge jump, wall dodge, double jump, or shield jump in Quake. So yes, the fact that you can run forward, back, strafe, jump, and shoot. It's close to quake!
     
  15. fresh&minty

    fresh&minty lollerbater

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    /shrugs

    oh the narrow sighted (noobies are fun)

    Here we go. Look quakes movement is dynamic (key word there folks) and the game is largely about how well you master the ability to trick jump yourself around the map.

    UT99 had static dull movement, and it had very little to do with how well you did at the game.

    2kx is a game based on dynamic movement. In that aspect it's closer to quake that it is to ut99.

    Thus quake with nerf guns.
     
  16. -AEnubis-

    -AEnubis- fps greater than star

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    It grows as people reply!

    That is a complicated issue, which if the movment is nerfed in the next installment, it should be no more.

    I hate the cSR, and honestly, I'm hoping any of this discussion is totally irrelivant anyways. I will say I appreciate the tone of your last post, and I understand where you are coming from (you'll find that the implied name calling, and such won't fly on these forums. Even if post count means nothing of skill in game, is does correlate to ones ability to survive without being banned on a forum ;) ).

    The switch away time though, I think is very balanced, where the LtG was not, because I have a very different view on the concept of Hit-scan.

    It's a little early for me, but I'm trying to see how that sentence doesn't contradict itself. Maybe you need to slow down, and assess one nerf at a time.

    The people that "suck" aren't really getting what should be looked at as a "boost", but some "protection" (though they can be seen as one in the same), by the "traceablility nerfs". Most casual games won't stick to a game if it's too absolutely hard for them. Getting shot, and never knowing where from is one of the more fustrating concepts in any FPS. Hence that nerf is helping newbs, and yes, has no effect on the next teirs up.

    The switch away time nerf is only really effecting the upper teirs, because of how big of a deal weapon switching is in this game. Not being able to combo with the cSR is huge, and maybe done a little drastically, especially considering all the other things the did to "balance it." I like the idea of not being able to switch until the weapon in hand is ready to fire again, which is exagerated I think in the cSR, but I must also say I think, in this game, something should be done to the LtG. Whether it be increased switch away time like the cSR, or lessened ammo in the pickup, it's a little too beefy at current IMO. My hit-scan use is either ON, or OFF because of how my look setup is, and when it's on, my peers just don't stand a chance. It shouldn't be that way.

    Yes, the players at the top have the experience to sometimes seemingly better assess balance issues, but their opinions are also very biased because of it. Humans in general have a problem being wholely objective, and hence anyone who is that involved in something automatically has one great disavantage in helping achieve that "balance", and that is how said changes can positively, or negatively effect their game. Although, I'm by no means perfect at it, being objective is something I try to do, by ignoring my personal biases. I find my "not playing to win" attitude helps that a lot, it also happens to be why I'm not "a player at the top." What is lacked in experience in many aspects of life, can sometimes be made up for with intelligence.

    Honestly, I think it's possible that the next "sniper weapon" won't even be hit-scan, and that it will be an extremely fast moveing, visible projectile, so additional methods to "traceing it" won't be necessary. I can think of no other reason to abandon the LtG, since it can't be made realistically into a projectile (lightning actually does travel that fast).

    Removing the minigun and LtG is a bold move, one I could only imagine that is fuled by a greater goal, and hence the removal is subsequent of that goal: Minimizing hit-scan.

    On a side note I think Tribes: Vengeance nailed it. The only hitscan weapon in that game has a max of 15 ammo, and each shot completely drains your energy, imobilizing you, and nullifying 1/3 of the weapons you could use other wise. You think the cSR is bad? Not really related, since it is a totally different game, but something to think about: Appreciate what hitscan you have. It could dissapear, and if it does, you won't hear me crying.

    PS: Q3A - 3 days ago, and no, it's a totally different game IMO.

    about the name calling...

    I play quake, and the only movement I've ever even heard about that was complicated or more "dynamic" is a bug in my eyes.

    Weapon Propelled Jumping:
    Q3A: Yes
    UT: Yes
    UT2004: Yes

    Jump, Strafe, Turn:
    Q3A: Yes
    UT: Yes
    UT2004: Yes

    Dodge:
    Q3A: No
    UT: Yes
    UT2004: Yes

    Double jump, Dodge jump, Wall kick:
    Q3A: No
    UT: No
    UT2004: Yes

    Please, enlighten us, and fill in any gaps I may have left.
     
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2005
  17. Sir_Brizz

    Sir_Brizz Administrator Staff Member

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    EEEEAAAAARRRRRGGGGGGHHHHHHH DYNAMIC AAAARRRGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHH UT = QWAYK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Look, you are being very subjective. I knew people in Q3 that could whip your butt repeatedly that NEVER trick jumped. Q3 was a game where trickjumping could help you but not trickjumping would not hurt you.

    The only way I would agree with you whatsoever is that in UT2004 you can do more trickjumping than you could in UT. That doesn't make it OMGQWAYKEWTFBBQ!!!!!!

    That's like saying "Doom 3 is Half Life 2".
     
  18. Parser

    Parser Hello

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    My silly? I wasn't aware that I was in possession of a "silly".

    I think you completely missed my point, which was that certain "pro players" are naive and arrogant enough to call anyone who isn't a "pro player" a "noob", just because those "noobs" don't play the game competetively and religiously but instead play for fun.
     
  19. fresh&minty

    fresh&minty lollerbater

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    Wow, you obviously were never any good at quake. What about single beat, double beat, and half beat strafe jumps to build momentum... or was that beyond you. Lets also not forget, momentum off bounce pads, and plasma climbs.

    Back to the sniper. The gun only hurts the noobies because they are the only ones stupid enough to make comments like "zomg it's teh smoke that balances it" and as such, demonstrate how little they know. The decent players just either 1. don't use the gun at all, or 2. only use it in a set situations (ie playing 2 up top on deck17 where all you need is the sniper to gang bang the rest of the map into a lock.... as anybody decent knows 2 top, 1 pit, 1 roamer for the win in part to help remove the nerf on the swap out).

    Also the smoking giving you away means nothing, except against noobs. A decent player will just LTG to shock you, and kill you. It won't matter if you knew where he was or not because once the angles are valid, your dead. On the other hand a noob can miss, and screw it up totally. Thus a noob with the sniper is hurt by the fact that he is given away when he misses, the good player just hits you twice in a row (either ltg swap, or 2 snipers). The ballance issues here are beyond horrid. You have one gun that is godly, and one gun that sucks... not good.

    As for the LTG, I tend to agree it's not balanced, but I blame that on maping. On maps like goliath, the LTG is extremely abusive and the entire match boils down to "time LTG, then get stacked, and lock it the **** down". on the flip side of it maps like corrugation, or asbestos don't cater to the LTG and it's not nearly as much of a factor.

    On tribes V, I agree the game is butter, and hit the weapon balance out of the park in a grand slam... one problem, they used the unreal engine (which is a turd). The unreal engine is plauged by projectile colision problems, and in a game dominated by arial projectiles that leads to problems, the turd of an engine screwed it. Throw in the fact that tribes is made for large player loads, and the UT engine is a hardware hog, and you see what the game has problems (even though I still love it, and play it).

    I also wouldn't cry if hit scan vanished, hell I liked the rocket dominance of quakeW, and the in your face frags.

    As for you brizz, making comments about who could whip who when you don't know who I am makes you seem desperate to back up a point, which you failed at prior. GG at not mentioning the names of people that can beat a person you don't know... 2ez

    For the record aenubis, I'm partly enjoying this, you don't seem as daft as your average pubber ;)
     
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2005
  20. Radiosity

    Radiosity Minty Fresh!

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    Fun?! What is this 'FUN' of which you speak?
     
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