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Protesting mexicans, loose my respect.

Discussion in 'Other Stuff' started by ReD_Fist, Mar 26, 2006.

  1. Nachimir

    Nachimir Crony of Stilgar

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    I take issue with that, it's as simplistic and inaccurate as idealism.

    Multiculturalism works (invisibly) online, it works without riots in a lot of cities like London and New York, it will work in most places eventually. Expressed in simple and purely hopeful terms, multiculturalism is certainly unrealistic. However, it is also inevitable, with all it's attendant troubles, and as such is simultaneously an ideal and a problem. It's going to happen, it just ain't gonna look like this.

    Current trends are pointing to borders becoming less relevant. Multiculturalism is an inevitable side effect of globalisation - as I said already, it increases in step with transport and comms. It's already the norm in many large cities, and will spread outward into whole countries as infrastructure becomes more sophisticated. Instead of being geographically separate, cultural territories will increasingly overlap and permeate each other. Polarisation will separate them and send them to war with each other, interaction will promote understanding and lead to the creation of new cultures. Either way, nationalism will never solve another problem again.

    Any culture is essentially a giant non-state group - if a state failed, the culture of it's inhabitants would live on. Previously, a culture would be largely confined within national borders. Throughout the 20th century, bleeding across them (sociologically rather than individually) was generally the preserve of terrorist groups, freedom fighters, tribes; generally the most disenfranchised and poorest people on the planet (Gypsies, Kurds, etc). Since the net took off, being a member of a non-state group is not about tribe, violence or crime, and is now open to the most privileged among our species - and I don't mean the wealthy, I mean the whole populaces of first world nations. Non-state groups are emerging in relation to every cultural interest there is, they have massive relevance to the lives of participants, but exist in a space where the state is largely irrelevant. Culture can now occur independently of geography.

    The net is a general purpose technology, like steam power, but it's only been around on a large scale for a decade or so. We're only just starting to feel the shockwaves and explore it. It is spreading towards being pervasive, and the new ways we've so far discovered of sorting and sharing information have no historical precedent. They're changing the ways many people think - the world is no longer an impenetrable monolith, it's editable. Collaborative work can be done between people in many different locations. Collaborative social filters simply haven't happened before. People from many cultures are already interacting with each other; they just don't know it most of the time. In games, on the web, wikis, forums, P2P networks, blogs, flickr, etc., all of these cultures are already operating on each other in ways that are largely hidden and impossible to predict, and we've barely seen the beginning.

    As soon as cultures are physically together, skin colours, accents, and all sorts of superficial bullsh*t separate them again, but not always. That will fall to an increasing idea of humanness borne from the interactions of an increasingly fluid, physically unconfined world populace.

    Cat. Bag. Out of.

    Right now it's culture, not policy, that is motivating or has motivated ethnic cleansing in parts of Eastern Europe, the Middle East, and Africa. It's motivated riots in more ordered countries. These things, however, are not an inevitable consequence of cultural mixing, because cultures integrate in the right circumstances. No matter what induces us to fight, we're a social species; altruism and cooperation are in our genes, and will outlive us and whatever cultural values we form. As such, above and beyond conflict we will also exhibit a tendency to settle into cooperation - not because it's idealisitic or utopian, simply because it's a more stable way to exist, aligned with basic human needs. Previously, that's taken centuries to happen. Technology is going to speed it up, if our loutish brains can just keep step.

    Edit: I realise that's sounding somewhat utopian again. Things really could and will spiral down the sh*tter in many more locales. For integration to become pervasive and stable, it will need to be nudged continually by culturally tolerant people. Who do actually exist, and can act collectively to change the nature of any culture itself.
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2006
  2. Mister_Prophet

    Mister_Prophet .

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    They made a southpark episode about that. Like the future human race went back in time to find jobs because of overpopulation of the one, unified super culture of the future.

    Leave it to south park :)

    EDIT: Oh, and I also think that was Nach said is inevitable...unless we all kill each other first.
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2006
  3. Nachimir

    Nachimir Crony of Stilgar

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    LOL, "Time travellers are stealing our jobs!"

    Also, yeah. Cultural motivations + nukular weapons = bad idea.
     
  4. GMotha

    GMotha The nipples from Napels

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    Most, but not all.
    In order to create a multicultural environment, people of all cultures shouldn't create their own little worlds inside a city (ghetto's etc...).

    An example, Antwerp (yes, belgium) is divided in neighbourhoods: you've got a black neighbourhood, one filled with practically only people with an north-african origin, one for jews (the orthodox ones) etc...
    This, in my opinion, keeps communities (foreign or native) from getting accustomed to eachother: they just keep bussiness to their "own kind". It just doesn't contribute to multiculturism. Every neighbourhood has it's own language: black africans speak french, northern africans berber or arabian, jews speak hebrew etc... You can walk into a grocery store in one of those neighbourhoods, ask for a few pound of olives and they won't understand you. Because you don't speak their language.

    But then agian, I don't blame immigrants to live near people of their own origin. That way it's easier for them to get settled. But to me, multiculturism isn't just different cultures living in the same city. There needs to be interaction, or even better (as an example): put more white people in black neighbourhoods and put more black people in the white neighbourhoods. Force them to interact.

    Situations like that are a proof that total multiculturism is just another unreachable utopia.
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2006
  5. Nachimir

    Nachimir Crony of Stilgar

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    I agree, the same kind of insularity is what caused the riots over here in Bradford a few years back. Policy based measures like fences, "keep them out" or "affirmative action" all seem to lead to polarisation. This in turn leads to clusterf*cked institutions, communities, cities, and eventually states.

    Mixing of cultures is an issue we'll have to face and solve though. It's made more complex by the fact that nation states are increasingly separate from the cultures of the lands they govern. Common language will be vital for a start, and geographical integration too.
     
  6. Btljuice

    Btljuice New Member

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    Posting 2 things:

    1) A Link

    2) A quote from a blog (which is where I got the link):
     
  7. ReD_Fist

    ReD_Fist New Member

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    :redflag: :redflag: :shock: The border needs heat allighned aiming machine guns, not even an animal will get accros.
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2006
  8. GMotha

    GMotha The nipples from Napels

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    It gives me a warm, fuzzy feeling to know europe isn't the only place being overrun by illegals.
     
  9. Evil_Cope

    Evil_Cope For the Win, motherfather!

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    I hear Iraq has quite the problem with unwanted foreigners, too.

    OH YES, I WENT THERE. LOLO.
     
  10. ReD_Fist

    ReD_Fist New Member

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    Ya I hear that !!! the last iraqi only chopped out toungs and ears and throw people off of 2 story roofs.
     
  11. ReD_Fist

    ReD_Fist New Member

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    Authorities raided offices and plants of IFCO Systems in at least nine states, the culmination of a yearlong criminal investigation, law enforcement officials said.

    U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement agents arrested seven current and former IFCO Systems managers on charges they conspired to transport, harbor and encourage illegal workers to reside in the United States for commercial advantage and private financial gain, said Glenn T. Suddaby, the chief federal prosecutor in Albany, N.Y., where some arrests were made.

    ICE spokeswoman Jamie Zuieback confirmed an unspecified number of raids and arrests, but declined to provide additional details because the investigation was continuing. One official, speaking on condition of anonymity because numbers were still being tallied, said the arrests were in the hundreds.

    Raids took place at several locations in upstate New York and in Biglerville, Pa., Charlotte, N.C., Cincinnati, Houston, Indianapolis, Phoenix, Richmond, Va., and Westborough, Mass.

    "ICE has no tolerance for corporate officers who harbor illegal aliens for their work force. Today's nationwide enforcement actions show how we will use all our investigative tools to bring these individuals to justice, no matter how large or small their company," said ICE chief Julie Myers.

    http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,192395,00.html
     
  12. neilthecellist

    neilthecellist Renegade.

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    Why the hell Fox?

    Does anyone remember that one news article like 7 weeks ago, published by the Union-Tribune about the local illegal immigrant arrests in a Carlsbad office in San Diego? Maybe it's just big news here..
     
  13. ReD_Fist

    ReD_Fist New Member

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    No never heard of that one, and FOX is just fine, it's peoples misconception of hearing things for the first time against the traditional liberal press is the ONLY reason they popped all the little liberals minds wich gives cause to think foxnews is right wing, or whatever the hell they think.
    I watch them all and I am glad fox came about, besides that I only went there it could have benn cnn as well.

    But no I never heard anything about what you speak.wonder why.
     
  14. neilthecellist

    neilthecellist Renegade.

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    Maybe it's just local news. The point I'm trying to get across is that here in San Diego, a lot of news is reported on illegal immigrants who are caught working in work places, and then the owners get fined. The illegal immigrants suffer the most, but the managers only get fined some dollars... Sort of relates to this thread, if no one can see it, I'm sorry, I'll just stop.
     
  15. ReD_Fist

    ReD_Fist New Member

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    no, so what you mean is the state needs extra income heh, a much stiffer fine ay?
    3 offences and 90days?
     
  16. ReD_Fist

    ReD_Fist New Member

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    Here we go again,
    Send them all back .

    I presume this is a right wing site, but I hear they are gong to show vidios wich you would't see on the mainline news covering all these mexican protests.
    http://pajamasmedia.com/
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2006
  17. Larkin

    Larkin Gone

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    Did anyone see the big billboard in Tennessee that reads:If you here legally then learn english and pay taxes if your here illegally then go home. I saw this on CNN or FOX News cann't remember which. But I love it.:)
     
  18. Nachimir

    Nachimir Crony of Stilgar

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    Socialism rears its ugly head once more!
     
  19. Twrecks

    Twrecks Spectacularly Lucky

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    "500,000 illegal immigrants to converge on downtown LA on MAy 1st" CNN

    Move 'em on, head 'em up,
    Head 'em up, move 'em out,
    Move 'em on, head 'em out Rawhide!
    Set 'em out, ride 'em in
    Ride 'em in, let 'em out,
    Cut 'em out, ride 'em in Rawhide.
     
  20. ReD_Fist

    ReD_Fist New Member

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    Don't forget there is a big ol loud gunshot or whips in that song too.
     

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