Prop 8 upheld: Seriously California, I expected better from you.

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Larkin

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The world healths origination does not rule reality. Said to add some larkin related tags to this thread. I bet it will work. :D

Cowards are being slow today. :(
 
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FuLLBLeeD

fart
Jan 23, 2008
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[GU]elmur_fud;2299190 said:
What I am saying is that it is a fact that homosexuality is a mental illness, but a grossly missinterpreted.

I'm at a loss for words here. It's not a mental illness, at all.

Also, I bet every guy in this thread that's posted against same sex marriage has jerked it to two girls making out. Quit being hypocrites.
 

Larkin

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What is interesting about this is I was in this discussion a view weeks ago, but no one even attempted to say why it wasn't. All they did was blast me and say really generic things.
 

Sir_Brizz

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Homosexuality is probably a chemical imbalance or something if it's anything. Stop talking about pointless things.
 

[GU]elmur_fud

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Mar 15, 2005
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Yes I recall that and the decission is still rather debated in many circles. I personally agree with the people that still consider it a mental illness. However I disagree with every1 of them that I have met as to why.

I do agree with the arguement in favor of the change that promoted it as a method of combating prejudice and homophobia. There is no good excuse for that behavior. However I think a better way was needed. What good is pandering to people that object to being identified by a label that society has arbitrarily through misunderstanding placed a negative stigma upon. Just another case of modern medicine treating the effects and not the cause.

Misdefining something to try and stop prejudice and homophobia and to placate the complaints of people that objected to homosexuals being labeled queer is a flawed concept. Is there a 'problem' (I.E. something different then what is supposed to be) with homosexuals? Quite frankly yes. Does that mean it's something we should 'fix'? Absolutely not. Not all problems need fixed.

The reason it is abnormal has to do with the natural process of perpetuating our species which is the reason for sex . Now religion tries to get into the mix and muddles stuff up. But in truth though I am religious I don't think it should be involved in this as not every1 is. Religion is a narrow scope identifier. Meaning it pertains primarilly to the individual that holds it. Where as this needs to be considered under a socialogical scope. Meaning arbitrary individual beliefs should not come into play.

So what are the facts.

Normal for our species is: Man + Woman.

Mental illness is defined as something that is abnormal.

Man + Man or Woman + Woman doesn't equal normal, it equals abnormal.

Therefore: homosexuality = mental illness

A mental disorder or mental illness is a psychological or behavioral pattern that occurs in an individual and is thought to cause distress or disability that is not expected as part of normal development or culture.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mental_illness

I have a cousin named Becka, Becka is a lesbian, Becka's father was a big fat lazy, abusive, violent, vile individual (stinking word filter I have some better explitives to use to describe the guy). When she was 5 (I was 7) he raped her mother in front of her then beat them both badly and fled when the cops showed up due to the disturbance. She was picked on by boys in school. (I wound up upside down in trashcans on a couple of occasions for trying to defend her.) The one boy I can think of that she ever had a serious relationship with, she caught cheating on her. Now I know for a fact that there was a major shift in how she acted after that first MAJOR incident and that she never fully trusted men again. The effects of her life and the trust and relationship she developed with another girl in highschool I know from first hand observation to be the cause for her deviation from the norm.

(I changed her name since mine is easy to find out and she is naturally very still sensitive of the subject).

I tell you this because I wished to better illustrate that sexual attraction and electrical attraction have many parralels most notably the path of least resistance. Another way to illustrate this would be that I love my wife, I am attracted to women with a little meat on there bones, my wife isn't exactly skiny. Hmmm perhaps thats why I married her.... nope she was skiny then and I liked skinny then. Do you follow me here?

I personally would propose that homosexuality doesn't need fixed because it is not only a problem but one that provides it's own treatment. That may seem like circuller reasoning but take for instance the fact that 1 of the basic human desires is to find happiness. If in your search for happiness you stray into the territory of abnormal you are now labeled mentally ill. But since happiness makes a individual feel normal if you find something that makes you happy you have just reached a equilibriam by redefining what normal is for you.



Now breaking train on the mental illness thing. I'd like to pick on gay rights. There is no such thing IMO. Which isn't to say I think homosexuals don't have rights. To quote my favorite American president, Abraham Lincoln, "Four score and seven years ago our fathers brought forth on this continent, a new nation, conceived in Liberty, and dedicated to the proposition that all men are created equal." I just think we all have the same rights. Some people try and use the gay rights banner to promote special treatment for homosexuals.
 

xMurphyx

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Jun 2, 2008
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Well, if the rights gay people enjoy at the moment are different than those others enjoy it makes sense to talk of "gay rights", even if you don't advocate special gay-bonuses.

Illness or not depends on what you personally consider an illness. Shouldn't this be a scientific issue and not one of personal opinion? Not quite!
For example, I consider albinism an illness but not red hair and pale skin. I don't even have a real reason for that other than albinism being so rare. I guess you could write red hair and pale skin down to some sort of chemical "imbalance" or a genetic "defect" but just because it isn't quite the norm doesn't mean it's an illness, imo.
What makes it an illness (or not) for you depends on how "normal" it is to your eyes:
A red head isn't something abnormal for me, so I don't consider it an illness.
An albino is something abnormal for me, so I consider it an illness.

As for the gays, I don't consider being gay an illness. Others might.

Either way, even if it's an illness they should have the same rights as the healthy part of the population. So when talking about their rights it's a nonissue whether or not you think they are ill.
 

[GU]elmur_fud

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I don't disagree with any of that* but for instance I have heard legislation proposing tax funded air time (TV and radio) for homosexual themed programming. I have nothing against homosexual themed programming (I can always change the chanel or go something else) but I object to my taxes paying for it when there is no provision for the other end of the spectrum. Equality is the key word and what I think should be promoted not any particular groups rights that doesn't need some special consideration.

I have a broad knowledge on both ends of this subject because I have had to go to bat on the behalf of my cousin many times to my extremely religous family. So I have seen alot of other similar stuff. Basicly some special interest groups are appearently using the Gay rights banner to promote there own private agendas. I don't think thier should be a gay rights movement. I think there should be an equal rights movement. Which should be idealy a arguement of semantics but unfortunately it's not.

*any of the gay rights issues.
 
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haarg

PC blowticious
Apr 24, 2002
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Over there
[GU]elmur_fud;2299232 said:
Mental illness is defined as something that is abnormal.
...
A mental disorder or mental illness is a psychological or behavioral pattern that occurs in an individual and is thought to cause distress or disability that is not expected as part of normal development or culture.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mental_illness
The definition of a mental illness isn't as simple as 'being abnormal', and what you quoted even proves that point.

I'd also like to point out that marriage is not a religious concept historically speaking. It was initially purely a social construct.
 

dub

Feb 12, 2002
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[GU]elmur_fud;2299232 said:
So what are the facts.

Normal for our species is: Man + Woman.

Mental illness is defined as something that is abnormal.

Man + Man or Woman + Woman doesn't equal normal, it equals abnormal.

Therefore: homosexuality = mental illness
Can't believe I've been lured into a thread like this again.
Who the hell rationalises like this o_O


More facts:
Normal for our species is to be omnivore.

Mental illness is defined as something that is abnormal.

Not using animal products does not equate to being normal, it equates to abnormality. (so as you don't need to research: US population that is vegan = less than 0.2%)

Therefore: veganism = mental illness
I'd also like to point out that marriage is not a religious concept historically speaking. It was initially purely a social construct.
This.
Marriage pre-dates any modern religion.
 
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[GU]elmur_fud

I have balls of Depleted Uranium
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Being a homophobic is a mental illness, FACT.

um yeah it's a phobia. A irrational fear.

The definition of a mental illness isn't as simple as 'being abnormal', and what you quoted even proves that point.

I'd also like to point out that marriage is not a religious concept historically speaking. It was initially purely a social construct.

Abnormal is an oversimplification true. But do tell how what I quoted proves anything different?

Two people cohabitating is not marriage. The first marriages were religous ceremonies. Not christian by any stretch but still religous. If I recall my history corectly the first documented marriage ceremony was by the Egyptians and it required the blessings of the sun god Ra.

Can't believe I've been lured into a thread like this again.
Who the hell rationalises like this o_O


More facts:
Normal for our species is to be omnivore.

Mental illness is defined as something that is abnormal.

Not using animal products does not equate to being normal, it equates to abnormality. (so as you don't need to research: US population that is vegan = less than 0.2%)

Therefore: veganism = mental illness

This.
Marriage pre-dates any modern religion.

I don't see anything problematic in that rational. It's a methodical approach to break down and analyse what exactly is involved in this thought process.
I tried to make it as simple as possible to comprehend. Perhaps I over simplified it.

I worked as cook for a vegan school and quite frankly at least a few of them were quite Mentally ill. So guess what, that doesn't invalidate anything.
 

anaemic

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Jan 7, 2002
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Mental illness is defined as something that is abnormal.

Most of the world thinks homosexuality = normal

therefore homophobia = mental illness
 

Kazimira

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Dec 13, 2008
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Well, if the rights gay people enjoy at the moment are different than those others enjoy it makes sense to talk of "gay rights", even if you don't advocate special gay-bonuses.

Illness or not depends on what you personally consider an illness. Shouldn't this be a scientific issue and not one of personal opinion? Not quite!
For example, I consider an illness but not red hair and pale skin. I don't even have a real reason for that other than albinism being so rare. I guess you could write red hair and pale skin down to some sort of chemical "imbalance" or a genetic "defect" but just because it isn't quite the norm doesn't mean it's an illness, imo.
What makes it an illness (or not) for you depends on how "normal" it is to your eyes:
A red head isn't something abnormal for me, so I don't consider it an illness.
An albino is something abnormal for me, so I consider it an illness.

As for the gays, I don't consider being gay an illness. Others might.

Either way, even if it's an illness they should have the same rights as the healthy part of the population. So when talking about their rights it's a nonissue whether or not you think they are ill.

Actualy your right about albinism being an illnes in a way. Haveing no melanine in the skin and hair does have effects that quite often need medical treatment. Many albinos I knew were blind or almost blind because it also affected the eyes not just the color at the front but the black layer of pigment on the inside of the eye just behind the retina. Many albinos need speshal shampoo with sun protection factor and I knew of one that protected herself really well on a day out but still ended up fainting before the end of the day because a jumper in the summmer(only thing with decent sun protection for her skin) wasnt a good idea and the skin just under her fingernails burned. Although I have seen some severe cases most only need factor 20 suncream all the time and a good pair of glasses.

As for the mental illnes descussion I think your putting a very dangrous label to something that really does not need it. These people dont need to be made normal which is the goal of mental helth professionals. They just need to be left alone to live thair lives. If we didnt have sosiaty telling it it was bad for years and just accepted it as quite normal I dont think any one would be botherd and no one would have ever thought of homosexualalaty as a mental illnes.
 
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Sir_Brizz

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Still can't wrap my head around the fact that the government sets rules for my behavior in my bedroom... it's all just baseless, pointless, outdated, immoral, tyrannical religious hypocrisy.
Well, it's a good thing they aren't then :p
 

haarg

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Mental illness is defined as something that is abnormal.

Having an IQ between 130 and 70 = normal

Therefore: being smart = mental illness
 
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