Proof that gun control works!

[SaraP]

God summed it up pretty well Himself:

"When a strong man, fully armed, guards his own palace, his goods are in peace. But when a stronger than he comes upon him and overcomes him, he takes from him all his armor in which he trusted, and divides his spoils."

- Jesus Christ, Luke 11: 21-22

 

[Demosthanese]

FYI, Jesus is our lord and savior, and he is the son of God, not God himself.

What version of The Bible were you quoting?

 

[[C22]-Mort]

Are you familiar with the word lend? The Lend-Lease program allowed England (and to a lesser degree Russia) to buy a *lot* of American-made war equipment on credit. After the war, they repudiated the debt and refused to pay it. In my opinion, we should have marched into England right then and there and emptied the Bank of England at bayonet-point, or at least refused them any Marshall Plan aid until they paid up. Or maybe repossess the English military just like a mortgage lender will repossess your home. That would be kinda amusing.

America benefited from winning the war, no doubt, but that in no way eliminates Britain's obligation to pay its war debts.

read this
it outlines the FULL terms of the lend-lease agreement, and the measures by which Britain ensured the payment for ALL aid given under the LEND-LEASE act (not necessarily monetary renumeration - but the LEND-LEASE act DOES not insist upon monetary renumeration), an act let's not forget that was put in place as a way for the US to give aid to nations fighting on your behalf without breaking the Neutrality act!

As I said do you understand the lend-lease act???

 

[ninjin]

I don't believe any such place exists. There are armed criminals in every part of the world ... including France (I seem to recall some bank robbers there using an RPG). I also don't believe you can create such a place by disarming the law abiding (and I believe my theory has been demonstrated time and time again ... disarm the law abiding and you embolden the criminal element) But even if such places exist, I would rather have a gun to confront that pocket knife armed criminal. Taking MY gun away isn't going to stop criminals from picking up guns (or even pocket knives).

Such place DOES exist. I've never even seen on a front page newspaper about someone being shot to death in Japan for the past 18 years i've lived there. The most lethal crime is stabbing, drowning, pushing someone off the building, the most "omg this is so wrong!" crime you might read is about politicians taking bribes or how the police was being bribed.

From my experience and from what i've seen, Japan has absolutely no problems with guns because we dont have, nor do we need any. Hence, its safer for all.

I remember someone remarked about suicides in japan is higher? Yes, it is, since japan has a history of using suicide to escape from shame, which has been passed down ever since the samurai's bushido. Its part of our history.

Im sorry, but i need to strongly disagree. Tokyo or Osaka may not be "safe" by japanese standards, if you live in a gun-toting country like the US, i assure you the non-presence of guns makes it VERY safe.

Edit:
and think of this, at hand to hand combat range, what use is there for a gun if the thief already has you at knife point? by the time you reach for it, you're already stabbed. Just learn martial arts, its just as deadly as any other weapon.

 

[Big_Duke_06]

ecale3: Don't even get me started on "attempted murder." What a stupid concept! Why should we let the criminal off easy just because he was incompetent? Do away with "attempted murder" and just write into the murder laws that attempting to commit murder carries the same punishments as if you were competent enough to finish what you started!

Not an attack on you, of course. I just get kinda crazy when people start talking about "attempted murder."

Matthew

 

[Vega-don]

guns are more rare in part of the world where they are forbidden and harder to get.

east europe is different since guns where in astronomic quantities in the army ...and people stole it.


id rather be attacked by someone with a knife because i could run. with a pistol i am a dead person.

and sarap : you realy one stupid person. a caricatural american pro gun , anti gay , and ethnocentrist..keep doing it, if you want the usa finish like rome did
(remember Rome fall ? )

 

[MetalMickey]

God summed it up pretty well Himself:

 

[BobTheFearlessFish]

i dont like getting into these debates. but from my personal experience as a resident of the UK it seems to be like this:

yes. some criminals have guns. but very few criminals will use guns against the public. they know that people do not have guns and dont feel the need to use one against them. Using a gun in this country is a very very serious matter indeed. while in the states it seems that a lot of people expect criminals to be armed and will arm themselves likewise. legalising guns for the protection of the people in this country, would serve mainly to up the stakes in any crime, and cause criminals to be prepared for that. it is true that criminals will get theur hands on a gun one way or another, but that doesnt mean we need to give them a reason to use it.

 

[JaFO]

That's what I see happen here as well ... the criminals might have access to guns, but they don't need to use them as people aren't armed anyway (that's not to say they're defenseless though).

// ninjin :
sure ... martial arts are deadly, but it takes ages to learn enough to be competent & threatening enough in such a 'suprise'-situation.

 

[ecale3]

attmepted murder doesn't necessarily mean you actually intended to kill them. People get charged for attempted murder for excessively brutal beatings as well. So it is probably better to keep attempted murder. Otherwise a guy might get put away for life just cause he bludgeoned someone...

You tell me if i am being sarcastic.

 

[poaw]

From my experience and from what i've seen, Japan has absolutely no problems with guns because we dont have, nor do we need any. Hence, its safer for all.

The reason why you don't have problems with guns in your country is because Japan as a whole has very few problems with crime in general. That is what creates a feeling of safety, not a lack of guns. Women can walk the streets at night not because they aren't afraid of being shot, but because they don't fear being robbed and/or raped.

 

[Nightmare]

The reason why you don't have problems with guns in your country is because Japan as a whole has very few problems with crime in general. That is what creates a feeling of safety, not a lack of guns. Women can walk the streets at night not because they aren't afraid of being shot, but because they don't fear being robbed and/or raped.

I'd think that there are places in Japan that are just as dangerous as the worst ghettos you can find in the US. The difference, feeling safe, is as much an effect of less crime as it is of less sensational media coverage. If I understood it correctly that was the point of Moore's documentary: not "guns are evil", but "the media sells fear to the public".

People buy SUVs so they can feel safe in a small tank. People buy guns so they can feel safe being better armed than the small-time criminals they're likely to meet. People buy a house in a closed and guarded suburb, so they can feel safe in a place where the penniless won't come to beg. The more you scare people with violence and crime, the more "safety" they'll buy. Capitalism at it's best.

 

[ninjin]

if people are really worried about being robbed or mugged on the street, they can always get pepper spray or a stun gun, after all, thats what they are for. A gun in the range of hand to hand combat isnt useful for defense either way.

I personally see guns as an item of escalation. Think of it this way : The roober is armed with a knife, so for you to feel "safe" you buy a gun. Now the thief wants to mug people to make a living, but if people are armed with a gun and he with a knife, he'll just arm himself with a gun as well. And for the person to feel safe again, they'll just arm themselves with a shotgun, and etc etc until the whole thing escalates into people carrying guns because they are afraid of being attacked "by guns".

If I understood it correctly that was the point of Moore's documentary: not "guns are evil", but "the media sells fear to the public".

I agree with that, because i've noticed in some places about shows about "omg, the black man with a gun is attempting to break into a house/carjack" I dont really see that in japan, except when i do see "documentaries" on bike\car gangs running around cities bashing people's cars down an blocking traffic, or about how some guy ran over a kid and ran away, it features more the police response on how they do things and how they track them down using forensics and etc, so i think its more of the opposite of media selling fear, instead i see it as the media selling reassurance because it displays the police capability (although the police can be rather useless at times....) but for one thing, it definately makes people reassured about the police, and most people feel safe with having SECOM or some other security system at home while they are at work or asleep.

And oh, i live in Kawasaki, "supposedly" one of the most dangerous areas of the Kanto region (although i swear Osaka is even more dangerous) since it was a former industrial/port city, and yes, kawasaki city is actually famous for having Yakuza headquarters.... people know what the yakuza are up to, so they cant really care, since the gangsters have better things to do then terrorize the local civilians. My friend from Yokohama seems to know all sorts of strange **** that goes on in kawasaki (dont ask me how, but im sure he's connected somehow) about illegal smuggling, drug trafficking, "disappearances", and etc, just that the local populace arent informed. So long as we arent informed about "omg the yakuza killed someone again!" we arent really afraid and people go about their business as usual. the only "sensational" news that the media goes on a frenzy about is political scam....

but im rambling again ...

 

[SaraP]

if people are really worried about being robbed or mugged on the street, they can always get pepper spray or a stun gun, after all, thats what they are for.

I'll carry pepper spray instead of a gun when the police do. You do realize the stuff is totally ineffective against a determined attacker? I've sprayed myself with pepper spray and OC spray. VERY painful, but NOT incapacitating -- and you can condition yourself so it doesn't faze you.

As for electrical stun-guns...well, I've shot myself in the leg with every stun-gun I've gotten my hands on. It hurts (and tends to upset the salesman), but it's *definitely* not incapacitating.

I am *not* betting my life on a stunner that can't bring me down -- if it won't work on a perfectly calm 20-yr old 135 lb girl, how do you expect it to take down a 300-lb man all hopped up on adrenaline and/or illegal drugs?

 

[Rostam]

SaraP it's not like you need somebody to drop down for him to be no longer a threath. You can spray his eyes and run away.

Wanting to do anything more than that means you want revenge, which is illegal in every sane country.

 

[DamienW]

As for electrical stun-guns...well, I've shot myself in the leg with every stun-gun I've gotten my hands on. It hurts (and tends to upset the salesman), but it's *definitely* not incapacitating.

Most excellent.....

May i suggest you shoot yourself in the chest several times with a .45 to check if its "stopping power" is a legend or not ?

 

[Hadmar]

I once had a defective electro shocker that went off in my right hand. I'm not sure if I experienced the full load but I can tell you that's not a pleasant feeling. I wouldn't trust it stopping anyone who is out to hurt you though.

I once walked into a cloud of CS gas, once again note exactly pleasant but I wouldn't trust it stopping anyone who is out to hurt you. I don't know if it makes much of a difference if somone actualy sprays you with that stuff or how much better pepper spray works (get pepper foam, less affected by wind and more effective).

That dosn't mean a shocker or spay is useless, no, but don't think "it will stop the baddy in an instant, Ti Hi Hi".

If somone attackes you with a knife, run. If you know martial arts (maybe you even had special lessons in defending against knifes) and you want to survive, run. Real Life ain't a training lesson where you know how Jonny The Knife will attack. In Real Life your 'trainings partner' won't attack slower than he can out of respect/beeing civilized. In Real Life, if the attacker knows what he is doing, you don't have to defend against attacks coming from someone who stands 1,5m away from you but short disguised attacks from somone who is close enough to give you a kiss.

 

[_Zd_Phoenix_]

But that can't be possible ... once the government makes something illegal its impossible for anyone to get (that explains why drugs are so difficult to find).[/i]

Of course, having an extremely over-stretched police force doesn't help...I'm sure gun-control laws would work alot better if the government here would put more money into it. Alot more.

And appologies to SaraP that we aren't as militant as you would like us to be. Next time I see a member of parliament, i'll make sure I over-throw him.

(there arent enough 's in the world)

 

[SaraP]

SaraP it's not like you need somebody to drop down for him to be no longer a threath. You can spray his eyes and run away.

The problem is, it won't even slow down a determined attacker and hence is *USELESS*.

 

[SaraP]

Most excellent.....

May i suggest you shoot yourself in the chest several times with a .45 to check if its "stopping power" is a legend or not ?

I'm not that stupid, dearie.

I think the salesman was mostly mad because I cost him a sale. Someone else was looking at stun prods, and he was going on and on about how effective they are. I'm getting annoyed at the BS, so I walk over, ask to see the prod and zap myself in the leg with it.

Lady: *blink blink*

Me: "Hmm, I guess it's not so effective after all."

Salesman (obviously angry): "Miss, I'm going to have to ask you to leave."