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ONS rules

Discussion in 'Unreal Tournament 2003/2004' started by Tenkken, Jun 11, 2005.

?

Choose.

  1. A

    23 vote(s)
    71.9%
  2. B

    3 vote(s)
    9.4%
  3. C

    2 vote(s)
    6.3%
  4. D

    4 vote(s)
    12.5%
  1. Tenkken

    Tenkken Prizemoney

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    In regards to both rules of ladders and general pub common law, what do you think is appropriate? Ladders allow all of these. Admins of regular servers may think otherwise.

    I believe for more competitive play, these should be allowed. Depends on the server though, I guess.

    A. Camping, Sabotage
    B. No Camping, Sabotage
    C. Camping, No Sabotage
    D. Neither
     
  2. Discord

    Discord surveying the wreckage...

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    For the life of me I'll never understand why people hate campers so much. Not that I camp a lot myself, but I don't see what the problem is with people who do...
     
  3. Raffi_B

    Raffi_B Administrator

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    Way to be mature, Tenk.

    Getting killed three times within ten seconds by the tank, in my eyes, is in fact spawn killing. If he had been driving down the hill to our base in order to advance, that would be acceptable. But the fact remains that he was just moving back and forth on that hill spamming tank shells at the wall. Sure, it may be an "acceptable ladder tactic" but it's downright lame.
     
  4. W0RF

    W0RF BuF Greeter, News Bagger

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    define sabotage
     
  5. JohnDoe641

    JohnDoe641 Killer Fools Pro Staff Member

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  6. T2A`

    T2A` I'm dead.

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    Camping is fine because you don't really help your team much while camping. Sabotage... No idea what that is. Spawn killing is dumb, but pretty necessary when you're attacking a core and people are spawning all around you. I wouldn't mind a mutator or something that somehow prevented you from spawn killing unnecessarily. Then again, I don't play ONS, so I don't really care too much.
     
  7. Taleweaver

    Taleweaver Wandering spirit

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    Sabotage...that would be to hit locked enemy vehicles until they are smoking, and/or leave a couple sticky grenades onto them without detonating.

    IMO: both are allowed. Camping's a bad tactic in an onslaught game (so why deny it if a team wants to lose?), and sabotage is about the only usefull use of the sticky grenades.

    @Tenkken: why didn't you just name the poll options properly instead of giving them A-D names that are explained later?
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2005
  8. Dark Pulse

    Dark Pulse Dolla, Dolla. Holla, Holla.

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    We straightened this out Tenk. Personally as a player, I deal with it all - and I still don't think I was Spawn Camping, but different people have different definitions of it and as such, the point of it is moot.

    My definition: Someone in a Manta running your team over in base. Endlessly. Your Mileage may vary. It was easy to get rid of me shooting, anyway - a Cicada, lightning gun from the tower, hell, if he wanted to he could have used the manta and taken the long way around and shot at me from the side. He could have dealt with me easily, but didn't think of such counters. Again though, the whole thing is moot, as different people define different things as camping and lame, and as such there's no point in discussing it.

    Sabotage: Sucks, but I deal with it. I view it as a challenge, anyway - nothing pisses off a Saboteur more then failed Sabotage.
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2005
  9. Israphel

    Israphel Sim senhor, efeitos especial

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    Uhm, I agree with a few people here who say you need to define your terms a little better.
    I hear people use "camper" in all sorts of different situations.
    For example, there is the person who hides upstairs in Arctic next to the Raptor spawn flinging spider mines down into base. This is incredibly irritating and pretty useless to the his team. Sure you can deal with the guy, but you'll probably lose a few lives doing it. On our server, doing this a lot will get you kicked.

    Then there's rolling the tank up onto the brow of hill overlooking spawn and killing people as they appear, or parking a 'Bender on a node and spamming sky-mines as people spawn. This I also think is camping as it doesn't allow people any chance to fight back as they are killed before they even get to the weapon locker. It can be an incredibly successful tactic depending on what stage the game is at. If a team is attacking the final node before making a push for the core, then doing this is going to make it easier for them.

    It's allowed in clan-matches as in clan matches the objective is only to win at any cost. On pubs people often forget that this is a game and it's there to have fun. While one person may get a kick and a high kill count from shooting people at spawn, the person being shot is not going to enjoy it at all as it's impossible for them to even get into the game or pick up a weapon, and consequently, this will also get you kicked on our server.

    Then there's the "other" camping. This is basically to defend a node. Examples of this would be on the hill next to the tower in Torlan or on the high ground on Crossfire where you can control the final node and kill anyone going to re-take it. I don't think of this as camping as there are many many ways to counter it, you're not killing people who are helpless, they can get the manta (or raptor on Torlan) and attack the tank, also, getting on ground above the tank can make you difficult to kill as you are slightly raised and can rain down flak secondary.
    Admittedly, on some maps, you can actually also kill people as they spawn by moving the tank a little (eg: one side of the hill in Torlan) but this leaves you very exposed to LG and SR from th sniper tower and you won't last long.
    People who do this are primarily trying to defend to node and thwart counter attacks. Its a tactic which is effective, but also has many counter tactics and so this will not get you banned on a server and for me, doesn't qualify as camping.

    Also rolling the tank up behind the final node on Arctic or Crossfire to defend it while your team attack the core. I hear people claim this is camping, but it is merely defending the node.

    So for me, spawn-killing when it is being done clearly for kills and doesn't allow for any real counter may be acceptable in clan matches (although I almost never see it happen), but it is lame lame lame in a public server as you are just stopping other people from enjoying the game.

    Sabotage? Doesn't bother me at all.
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2005
  10. carmatic

    carmatic New Member

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    i dunnoe, but how about jacking up the spawn protection time in onslaught to help the people who are being spawncamped.... attacking the core will be tricky tho, because the entire opposing team will be there at the core and trying to kill you and you cant hurt them when you shoot them, but then again your not supposed to be shooting them, your supposed to be shooting the core...

    sabotage?http://ut2004.titaninternet.co.uk/vbb/showthread.php?t=2922&highlight=command+conquer
     
  11. CountBloody

    CountBloody The Undead Spider Whore

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    I do alittle of camping, sabotage, & also pointman, but it depends on what map we're(the team I'm on) playing on. Now if some one is usen a Manta to spawn kill, that's just pisses me off. But after time I/another teammate kill's the Manta spawn killer, good old AVRiL ;)

    For camping, just find the place where the player is hiding & kill him/her. But if you need help, ask a teammate to help out. Or just make him/her roadkill. And about sabotage, just do a quick look over of your vehcile for grenades. But if thier blowing up your team's vehciles with a Raptor, fire afew AVRiLs. Then later do the same thing back at that team. All's fare in love & war.

    Alll in all, think like a camper/saboteur an you can find thier weekness.
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2005
  12. carmatic

    carmatic New Member

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    but sometimes its not as straightforward as that... if they know they have weaknesses, they wont spawncamp... its only where the map supports their spawncamping that they keep on doing it, like in severance they can just fly the raptor over the cliffs and shoot you again and again and again , until you've unloaded enough minigun rounds or lighting on them cuz the avril will just crash into the cliff the moment they move backwards... then by the time youve taken a raptor down, they've somehow have another vehicle coming your way by then either from capping nodes while you were busy dealing with the raptor , or another raptor has spawned and theyve flown it over to your base again
     
  13. Tenkken

    Tenkken Prizemoney

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    Did I make any references to fragbu? I'm just looking to note the opinion of the majority and apply those thoughts to my pub play.

    Now look at the this thread, god... its not productive! Way to be mature, Tenk.

    GD= lol...I never thought of that last night... makes little difference either way
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2005
  14. Raffi_B

    Raffi_B Administrator

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    I find it hard to believe that you posting this thread has nothing to do with what happened at FragBU.

    If you got killed three times within ten seconds by a tank that wasn't moving, wouldn't you consider that a lame tactic?
     
  15. KevinRoe327

    KevinRoe327 Boycott Grendelkeep!!!

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    If it was at your base, yeah, but I'm sure there are ways to avoid it. Like spawn right after he shoots, and run and hide while you still have spawn protection time.
    It it was at a node, force yourself to spawn at another node, its not that hard...

    I voted for both. Camping isn't hard to avoid in most situations, and Sabotage is just a great strategy. If anything, No camping only, but in ONS, it would be too hard to define what is and what isn't camping...Might as well just allow it. They aren't map glitching or anything like that, so its fair game.
     
  16. Tenkken

    Tenkken Prizemoney

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    Yeah, I would consider that a lame tactic. I wouldn't even call that a tactic all together but noobish. If this thread had anything to do with spawn killing, I would've put it as one of the poll choices.

    Camping can include both spawn killing or just holding a node. And btw, that wasn't dp shooting at your base... I saw a second tank going down to your base :lol: I guess we affiliate anything related to a tank with dp :D
     
  17. Raffi_B

    Raffi_B Administrator

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    Well I saw the message "you were killed by [BU]Dark_Pulse" three times within ten seconds.

    If you consider what he did a lame tactic, then there's nothing left to discuss. I was merely providing my opinion that doing something like that with the tank, while effective and theoretically avoidable, is still lame.
     
  18. Istigkeit

    Istigkeit Denied the best ultrasex

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    CAMPING in ONS can be very different than in DM. If you're camping in DM, you're usually just guarding the amp, +100 shield, weapon, whatever. This isn't as useful in ONS, but camping might be defined as guarding a node. In Arctic Stronghold, I will often stay behind with the first-built node if I believe the other team is coming to attack it soon. This leaves the rest of my team to attack other necessary nodes while I guard the one we do control, preventing them from isolating us. This has saved my team's ass innumerable times, and I think it's very useful.

    Sniping can be camping, and that happens often in ONS also. Since snipers generally stay put, they are easy to flush out and take care of if they kill you, so I don't worry about it too much.

    SABOTAGE is annoying sometimes, but useful too. More of a hinderance than anything, since you can still heal the vehicle.

    SPAWN-KILLING is ridiculous, moronic, and should not be accepted ever. This includes spidermining the enemy base/spawn points (my pet peeve), Mantawhoring Primeval (using a Manta effectively doesn't count, I mean running a big circle around the two outside nodes continously just to kill everyone who pops in), and other vehicle spamming where it need not be.

    Guarding the last node in Arctic with a tank isn't spawnkilling, because no one spawns there. It's just big muscley defense.

    I hate hate hate hate spawnkilling. It makes me foam wildly from all my pores.
     
  19. Tenkken

    Tenkken Prizemoney

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    Agree with just about everything you say. Although I rarely see someone on top of the torlan tower with a lg, sniping is mostly with the twin beams.
     
  20. Nemephosis

    Nemephosis Earning my Infrequent Flier miles

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    I love leaving grenades on the enemy Raptor. It's the first vehicle people go for, and it's hilarious watching someone go "wtf happened" when they lift off and blow up. I did it to the same guy 8 times in a row once cause he kept going for it.
     

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