Online piracy ruled legal by french court

[JaFO]

well now since youve put it this way iolair, people cut down on luxurious commodities to invest on necessary commodities like cars.

cars are luxurious commodities, bikes are necessary commodities (and they're good for the environment as well as your health too) ...

 

[Hadmar]

The price of that car's too high too, hmm.

/smash
/hotwire

yay!

shame some of you are too dumb to see the difference is only scale. (Or perhaps you do carjacking too?)

Shame some don't see that someone can't drive or sell a car that's been stolen while you still can use/sell bytes that someone has copyed illegally. Scale, nope.

cars are luxurious commodities, bikes are necessary commodities

Yeah, luckily that totaly dosn't depend on the circumstances...

 

[FaT CaM]

Also, yes I have downloaded a game, fallen in love with it and gone and bought it. So quite frankly, you can take 'what you believe' and shove it.

I've done that with alot of music myself. I usually buy games when my friends give me piratd copies (the pirated copies cant be patched/played online etc, so i buy them).

 

[Big-Al]

Shame some don't see that someone can't drive or sell a car that's been stolen while you still can use/sell bytes that someone has copyed illegally. Scale, nope.

Yeah, luckily that totaly dosn't depend on the circumstances...

it's the difference between material and imatiriel, a car is material, the knowlege of how to build that car is imatiriel, but that knowlege can still be sold... or stolen? not exactly, only if you go into a shop and steal it physicaly, in which case you would be physicaly sealing the paper, cd, or whatever. it is the difference between copy/paste & cut/paste.

copyright: The exclusive legal right to REPRODUCE, publish, and sell a literary, musical, or artistic work. If you already own that lisence, then, you are not stealing, or doing illegal things...

 

[_Zd_Phoenix_]

Stealing is the physical removal of property. This is copying. Not the same thing. They're not actually losing property, and arguments can be made that they're not actually losing money either (because most of the time, people wouldn't have bought it anyway).

You're right, it's not the same thing, but when you put it that way it seems to me more like a service that isn't being paid for, which although is nowhere near as serious to me (sort of like skipping a fair at a museum or something), it still doesn't strike me as being right to do, especially because of your second point. I agree that there are many cases of people getting stuff that they wouldn't have bought anyway but then I know that there are many many times that people decide they just want something that they would have bought but can get for free (something I've done before I re-thought this and I know many other people that just get the stuff they would have purchased).

Like I said in my first post (before I forgot the counter argument and convinced myself), I dunno. I can see the counter argument, but then there are some products that are experiences rather than physical items and it still doesn't seem right to me not to pay for them (especially since they are for our entertainment - they aren't fulfilling primary needs).

 

[BobCobb]

cars are luxurious commodities, bikes are necessary commodities (and they're good for the environment as well as your health too) ...

Depends where you live. In America cars are a necessity, it simply would be impossible to bike everywhere. Everything is too spread out.

There is a huge difference between a car and software. For one, if you wanted to try a car out all you have to do is go down to the dealership and test drive it. And you can't create another car just by sticking a blank cd in the cd player can you?

Software is a different matter altogether. It can be easily copied and distributed, which makes any analogy between the two irrelevant. The fact of the matter is we cannot stop piracy. Any amount of DRM and copy-protection will be broken. So, publishers have to deal with piracy in the only way possible, make buying video games a better alternative to piracy. If they go the way of the RIAA, piracy won't go away, and games will just cost more money.

They have the ability to solve the problem for the most part. Piracy will always exist, but publishers are the ones that control the magnitude of it. You can blame consumers all you want, but in the end consumers are just another cog in the free market, morals withstanding.

 

[Jackal]

The price of that car's too high too, hmm.

/smash
/hotwire

yay!

shame some of you are too dumb to see the difference is only scale. (Or perhaps you do carjacking too?)

Ok, but you can also take that car for a test drive too. Don't like how it handles? Take it back to the dealership and try a different car until you find one you like, then "most" people will buy the car they like.

Besides, allmost all of car jackers don't keep the car. They sell it for parts, or sell the car.

Edit: Didn't see Bobcobbs post above me.

 

[Evil_Cope]

[I may have been reading too many comics...]

Depends where you live. In America cars are a necessity, it simply would be impossible to bike everywhere. Everything is too spread out.

There is a huge difference between a car and software. For one, if you wanted to try a car out all you have to do is go down to the dealership and test drive it. And you can't create another car just by sticking a blank cd in the cd player can you?

Software is a different matter altogether. It can be easily copied and distributed, which makes any analogy between the two irrelevant. The fact of the matter is we cannot stop piracy. Any amount of DRM and copy-protection will be broken. So, publishers have to deal with piracy in the only way possible, make buying video games a better alternative to piracy. If they go the way of the RIAA, piracy won't go away, and games will just cost more money.

They have the ability to solve the problem for the most part. Piracy will always exist, but publishers are the ones that control the magnitude of it. You can blame consumers all you want, but in the end consumers are just another cog in the free market, morals withstanding.

Oooh Oooh! what if you had the ability to entirely duplicate a car/item, however, simply by touching it? Like, you go test-drive that ferrari testarossa you always wanted, and can obviously never afford.
You smile, than the dealer, say no, and just touch the badge.
"I've already got one." and you drive away, laughing. Could the dealer argue you have stolen his car? (ignoring registration problems and so on, mind you. Assume you have some way to legitimise the car for actual road use)

Would this be the same as stealing? I am intruiged.
And so need to get out more.

 

[Jackal]

Oooh Oooh! what if you had the ability to entirely duplicate a car/item, however, simply by touching it? Like, you go test-drive that ferrari testarossa you always wanted, and can obviously never afford.
You smile, than the dealer, say no, and just touch the badge.
"I've already got one." and you drive away, laughing. Could the dealer argue you have stolen his car? (ignoring registration problems and so on, mind you. Assume you have some way to legitimise the car for actual road use)

Would this be the same as stealing? I am intruiged.
And so need to get out more.

Well, since You made it, it's yours. Besides, this is pretty much impossible. So you can't/shouldn't use this.

 

[Kaligraphic]

Well, since You made it, it's yours. Besides, this is pretty much impossible. So you can't/shouldn't use this.

Yes, don't drive an impossible car. You shouldn't use what doesn't exist.

 

[Jackal]

?
I'm talking about the "touch n copy". Not the car

 

[Hadmar]

I'd say the moment replicators exist and everyone has one society will change rather drastically anyway so one might as well leave that kind of discussion out till the time is near.

 

[iolair]

Ok, but you can also take that car for a test drive too. Don't like how it handles? Take it back to the dealership and try a different car until you find one you like, then "most" people will buy the car they like.

Besides, allmost all of car jackers don't keep the car. They sell it for parts, or sell the car.

Edit: Didn't see Bobcobbs post above me.

Can't try things in advance?

Music? Radio.
Software? Trial versions. Shareware. (not for everything, but for a lot).
Movies? Rental. Trailers. Cinema, even.

There are plenty of options to "try before you buy"...

By having bought, say, the original versions of Unreal and Unreal Tournament (as I have), I know I've financially supported both the past efforts of the programmers and their later development of UT2K3 etc... This is the arrangement under which the programmers released their software (and there were still free demo versions to try).

Other programmers are happy to release their software at no cost (OpenOffice, for example).

There are usually several legal options to choose styles of music (if not necessarily particular bands), software, reading material; games, etc. But many people still clearly display so much greed (greed for quantity, but also for quality) that they seem unable to either obey the law or respect the intentions and financial situations of those involved in manufacture and distribution of such items.

 

[Big-Al]

Music? Radio.

just how many death/thrash/hardrock radio stations do you know of on the plateau of Larzac in southern france buddy?

and as for internet radio, lol, i should be so lucky! i've got a 64K internet connection! ADSL doesn't EXIST here FFS!


grrr @ humanity!

 

[iolair]

just how many death/thrash/hardrock radio stations do you know of on the plateau of Larzac in southern france buddy?

and as for internet radio, lol, i should be so lucky! i've got a 64K internet connection! ADSL doesn't EXIST here FFS!

"Life is pain ... anyone who says otherwise is selling something".

One of the lessons of growing up is knowing that you can't always have what you want. Learn it.

 

[namu]

I'd say the moment replicators exist and everyone has one society will change rather drastically anyway so one might as well leave that kind of discussion out till the time is near.

For more detail about this please refer to the book "Forever Peace" by Joe Haldeman

 

[Mister_Prophet]

I much prefer buying albums, personally. I like having the CD's in my album book and my rack loaded with album cases. I like reading shiit in the booklet. I even like the pictures.

Ever since I've had a CD burner I've burned mix-matched album mixes for friends. Nobody said anything about that. It was never a big deal. This idea of digital swapping is essentuially the same concept.

I have used file sharing for things like B-side tracks and oddities I can't find anywhere else. Or if I can't find the album I want anywhere. It's not very often. If there was no file sharing I'd ask a friend to burn something I need for me.

Am I thief? I guess so. I've heard people in here comparing stealing some guy's car to downloading some rare live version of David Bowie's "Queen Bitch". That's like saying gay marriage leads to marriage with children or animals.

 

[Big-Al]

"Life is pain ... anyone who says otherwise is selling something".

One of the lessons of growing up is knowing that you can't always have what you want. Learn it.

i know. i"m a lonely 22 yearold with alot of legal CDs and only a few, not so legal CDs.

at least i don't smoke, saves money for the CDs

 

[BobCobb]

Can't try things in advance?

Music? Radio.
Software? Trial versions. Shareware. (not for everything, but for a lot).
Movies? Rental. Trailers. Cinema, even.

There are plenty of options to "try before you buy"...

Radio?! Bull****. A few corporations control the radio, and therefore control what people hear. If anything, this argument is keeping music as a whole in America ****ty. I can download almost any mp3 I want, and if I like the music I'll go out and buy it to support the artist. I would never be able to support independant artists if radio was the only way I could hear music.

Anyways, music has been bastardized anyways. The internet is helping to change that.

Movies? Not much of an issue really. You can get DVDs for fairly cheap, and having a DVD is clearly better than a low-quality pirated version. Piracy doesn't affect DVD sales too much.

Software? 3 groups of folks(see above). Heres where it gets hairy. But what it all comes down to is whether or not people follow their own moral guidelines.

Theres nothing wrong with pirating as long as you support good software, but chances are people who never pirate games aren't buying as many games as those that take the time to pirate. That is unless they are a member of group 1. In which case, they need to get laid.

Piracy isn't as easy as some of the computer savvy here at BuF think. Most computer-illiterate folks wouldn't know where to being trying to pirate a game, see DMX's CS thread as an example.

And the "ITS THE LAW" argument is ludicrous. When the government stops bending over for corporations and makes reasonable laws, I will stop smoking pot/pirating games/flipping off cops.

The fact of the matter is, theres nothing wrong with piracy. It can be used for good or evil, just like anything else in the world. Believing otherwise is turning a blind eye to reality.

 

[Jackal]

Bobcobb has just finished this thread. It may be locked now