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Online piracy ruled legal by french court

Discussion in 'Off Topic' started by namu, Feb 8, 2006.

  1. Zxanphorian

    Zxanphorian ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

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    The US should follow suit, but they prolly won't.
     
  2. rajput_warrior

    rajput_warrior The World's Favorite Flak Monkey

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    isn't that like the same law that is in canada right now? you can use stuff all your want for personal use as long as you aren't profiting from it? and the way we get around this is by paying the media levy tax?
     
  3. Forgetful

    Forgetful Here is party?

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    I think $50 is a fair price if you think of all the work that goes into a game. I don't understand the logic of those who claim "I download it do see if it's worth playing"... yeah right we all believe that if you like it you'll delete it off of your HDD and go buy it. Whatever happened to product demos... Same goes for music. If I hear some singles from a band on the radio that I like then I go buy their album. People everywhere like art in all its forms, but no one likes to support artists when it comes down to it. The I can't afford it speech is a pretty self serving argument. I myself want to start a small publishing/development company (I'm taking marketing and computer science in Uni) so maybe I'm just jaded and see myself in the future getting ripped off by a lot of people with the same attitude.
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2006
  4. Sir_Brizz

    Sir_Brizz Administrator Staff Member

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    Indeed, what DID happen to product demos? The great majority of games that come out right now don't release demos. And the ones that do are rarely indicative of the final product at all. I don't think $50 is a fair price when you are almost guaranteed to be sold something that is not what you think it is based on the packaging. This would be like going to the store to buy a $90 TV series set for a series you had never seen and that wasn't in syndication just expecting that it would be good.
    When you buy a CD who are you really supporting? Additionally, how many times have you spent $15 on a CD only to find that the only songs you like on there are the ones you heard on the Radio? Spending $15 for 2/15 songs is a little overboard, IMO.
    I work in the industry, so it's not being jaded. Some developers have a real fear of getting screwed. Most of the time, though, it's the publishers that are scared.

    I'm of the opinion that any developer worth their salt will provide a demo to consumers that properly and correctly provides the gaming experience that the retail game would provide. If you can't do that, you are failing your customers. I have "acquired" many games in my day, the only ones I have kept are the ones I've layed the money down for. The others get the short trip to the waste bin.
     
  5. DeeperShade

    DeeperShade Banned

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    That $50 isn't going to the developer. You seem to lack a little knowledge of behind the scenes. The money from the purchase goes to the publisher, not the people that make the game and put the effort into it.

    Also, yes I have downloaded a game, fallen in love with it and gone and bought it. So quite frankly, you can take 'what you believe' and shove it.
     
  6. Forgetful

    Forgetful Here is party?

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    I agree 100%. I think the problem is that people are not willing to try things. How many times have you bought a CD and found that the singles on the radio weren't infact your favorite songs,but the less publicized tunes were. As far as publishers getting screwed ... it's a risky business and if you are getting behind a product that doesn't present it's true face to it's audience pre launch then you are being carless. Everyone thinks publishers are evil but they are the ones fronting all the money and taking the largest risk. If your game sucks and no one buys it... O well get a job doing something else. The publisher is the one left digging in their pockets to make up for lost cash. Yes because of this the artist who's album I've just purchased might only recieve a dollar or two, but at least it's better than nothing.

    You don't have to tell me to "shove it". I'm not slow I'm a marketing student I know all about the relationship between developers , publishers and distributors. Whoever puts out the most money gets the most back to recupe those costs. If developers had the cash to publish their own products they would get more back in return, but then they would still have to recover their publishig costs leaving them with maybe 2 or 3 dollars more per copy profit. It's nice for companies like codemaster who develop and publish their own products, but the vast majority of developers can't afford to.

    Anywho, I don't make a practice of pirating software, and it's my morale choice. I'm not saying anyone who does is without morales, but I don't believe its right and kudos to anyone who infact does go out and buy the products which they downloaded.
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2006
  7. BobCobb

    BobCobb Society is a leech on me!

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    Which is the problem. Publishers release crappy game after crappy game, sequel after sequel. People aren't willing to shell out $50 bucks for games that are probably just a copy. I thought I already paid for Madden...

    If publishers supported better games, piracy wouldn't be a problem. If those games were a tad cheaper, you would think people would be more willing to buy the good titles. Fact of the matter is, there are few good titles.

    There are three types of pirates.

    1. I pirate everything I possibly can, play half of it, listen to half of the music, because I have no life.

    2. I pirate occasionally, when I want to try a new game, or find some new music. Generally if I like the product, I go out and buy it. Problem is, most of the stuff I download sucks.

    3. Pirating is bad. It hurts developers.

    Chances are 1 and 3 are the minority of the group.
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2006
  8. Airmoran

    Airmoran Construct

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    Dunno how romantic you are, but generally speaking, someone who pirates something never buys the real thing just because you should.

    I mean, I'e already stolen it. Buying it "for reals" isn't gonna cleanse my soul. If I do buy the real thing after having pirated it, it'd be for something I didn't already have or (once in a blue moon) just to feel better. At best, I'd buy the full DVD just for the higher video quality or maybe some cool extras. Or maybe a game for the online component.

    I'd say that 2 is the real minority of the group. If I remember correctly back from HS, almost everyone would buy less than a game every two months yet complete 5-6 in the same time period.

    50 bucks is what you're expected to pay for a game. If you don't want to fork the 50 bucks, then you aren't supposed to have it. Yes, it's a risk, but that's the system. If you're cheating it, you're cheating it. This "I pirate because they cost a lot or I'm not sure if it'll be good and thus I should get it for free" mentality that's scourging the internets is just silly. I pirate games cause I'm a bastard. If publishers released better games, then I'd just be downloading better games.

    Not like Half Life 2 is pirated less than 25 to Life.
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2006
  9. Forgetful

    Forgetful Here is party?

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    I agree with your last statment there BobCobb. Publisher's don't pump out crappy games, developers do. If you don't want to play re-hashed games that come out year after year then don't buy em. Companies like EA who publish and produce their own titles really rake in the dough. Problem is companies this big don't feel much loss when it comes to piracy. I agree with you that there are few good titles, a lot of my favorite games have actually been ones that had little or almost new media coverage. These games co-incidentally come from small developers who really do feel the squeeze of piracy. I'm not saying "Its ok to steal from Wal-Mart, but not mom and pops", but when people think who is this hurting they usually think about big companies who can afford to take a bit off loss, not the ones struggling to get started whome it can be detrimental for.

    Anywho, nuff said peace out
     
  10. BITE_ME

    BITE_ME Bye-Bye

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    Can of ? in supermarket $2.00 max.
    New video game $50.00 to $80.00.
     
  11. Sir_Brizz

    Sir_Brizz Administrator Staff Member

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    I don't think so. Most of the people I know pirate stuff that they want to try, and if they like it they buy it. A few of the people I know pirate everything they can.

    I definitely belong to group 2, although I'm a little more adept at recognizing crapbuster vs. blockbusters if I do say so myself :)
     
  12. _Zd_Phoenix_

    _Zd_Phoenix_ Queen of BuFdom

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    I dunno what to think of this issue...I mean music-wise I think the internet is great, because it lets you find so many artists that arent catered for by most radio and TV. Also I think it is a shame that art has become over-commercialised.

    However it does seem to me to be blatent stealing. And whereas it may not be surprising in an internet forum for everyone to be for it (i'm sure people here have gained alot from it), it is never going to be entirely right, whatever reasons you use to justify it. Too expensive? Ok...but what natural right do you have to those products?

    Movies in particular strike me as being widely available...there are trailers, reviews, rentals...and then in a couple of years a vast majority of films will be on TV.

    And the post by Bite Me about a can of ? vs a video game...that's technology for you. Doesn't mean you should be able to steal a game from a store if you can get away with it, or a TV or anything else. The 'should be open to all' idea of art and entertainment is a very communist view and a nice one, but we don't live in that society. The French decision seems very odd to me.

    That first catagory is fine by me and I think companies would be better for more chances to try without ownership (especially music and games) but I doubt that many people buy all of the things that they pirate and enjoy.
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2006
  13. DeeperShade

    DeeperShade Banned

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    Phoe, you've heard the argument before, but i'll iterate it. Stealing is the physical removal of property. This is copying. Not the same thing. They're not actually losing property, and arguments can be made that they're not actually losing money either (because most of the time, people wouldn't have bought it anyway).
     
  14. JaFO

    JaFO bugs are features too ...

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    yeah right ... they're not losing 'property' ... but they're still losing an opportunity to sell the item. Saying that they didn't lose any money because you wouldn't have bought it is stupid as well.
    If you didn't want it then why did you get it in the first place ?

    IMHO saying you "can't afford" the software is stupid considering the hardware that is required costs ten times as much ... how did you pay for that then ?

    // _Zd_Phoenix_
    The French decision makes perfect sense.
    In europe a percentage of the price of CD-R and other recording materials goes to the artists/publishers (or at least that's the theory, in reality it's the big names that get everything while the little ones don't see a single penny).

    Why would you have to pay the license twice when all you're doing is protecting the material you've legally acquired already ?
     
  15. sid

    sid I posted in the RO-me thread
    and all I got was
    a pink username!

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    One cannot argument with words like 'would' or 'should' because when it comes to copyrights everything is on paper. Although you are right that stealing and copying is vaguely different.
     
  16. namu

    namu Bleh.

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    Nope. you can't reason in "potential money".

    Did I mention that the artists are getting paid off every CD-R and hard-drive sold in the country ? How you get their work matters little because of this, be it from a commercial CD or a P2P network.
     
  17. iolair

    iolair Mostly Harmless

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    The price of that car's too high too, hmm.

    /smash
    /hotwire

    yay!

    shame some of you are too dumb to see the difference is only scale. (Or perhaps you do carjacking too?)
     
  18. sid

    sid I posted in the RO-me thread
    and all I got was
    a pink username!

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    well now since youve put it this way iolair, people cut down on luxurious commodities to invest on necessary commodities like cars.
     
  19. ant75

    ant75 aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

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    Well, i've learned something today. Next time i'm in a supermarket i'll be sure to taste a bit of every champagne they have to find the best one. :D
     
  20. namu

    namu Bleh.

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    You do that.

    Just note that shop owners have the right to throw you out for any reason ;)
     

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