One-shot-one-kill-weapon sux

[Lord_Bunker]

are you an emt by anychance greensha?

what was the guys name, silis something i think, he's talked about in all the psych books. he got a 10' steal bar propelled through his frontal lob. it through him back 20'. he survived and lived a normal life. he wasn't impaired in any way. my point is that if you can survive that there's also a chance you could survive certain headshots.

it's only temporary till i get my own ghillie finished.

 

[The_Fur]

I don't think you stand much chance of surviving a 7.62mm hit to the head since you'll be picking up the pieces after that, not to imiagine a.50 there really isnt much head left after getting hit by that .

About shotguns, they are mainly used in jungle warfare by the point-man (at least that's what the discription said when i visited the navies info-days).


Crosshairs are for wimps

Killing stupid people is not just a hobby, it's a way of life.

 

[Col.Sanders]

Greesha: good to seem someone add personal, factual experience to the discussion.

We are beating around the bush; the .50 BMG is not employed as an anti-personel weapon. .300 and .338 Magnums are more than sufficient to drop even an armored soldier out to 1500 meters. Practical accuracy, "Can the guy actually be hit", is the question. Snipers need extensive training to hit men beyond 500 meters. 1000 meters is nearly imposible once wind is present or the target is moving.

50-caliber rifles are too heavy and the ammo is too bulky to use solely for people.

Greensha, you have also identified a major issue: lethality is not our goal, instant fight-stopping is. That is why we use 12-gauges instead of .22's and waiting for blood loss.

 

[DarkBls]

I'm agree with sanders.
Death is not a good goal in war.
Injuries is better.

For each casualty his army must deploy a team to rescue it, a lot of people to treat him. And his buddy lost their good mood when they see him crying because of the pain...

 

[greensha]

No, I'm a Doc. EMT's have way more experience in these things than I though! I was also a soldier in the UK, back in the day when they used the L1A1 7.62 SLR.

Andy

 

[Angel Of Death]

These sit on the top of my TV.

Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines

 

[Angel Of Death]

From left to right...

.22, 32, 9mm, 38, 38 HP, .44, .45, some foreign bullet, 270, 12 gauge, .50 caliber, and 20mm.

n0style, I hope you see our point.

Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines

 

[Bernoullii]

One shot, one kill ... that's the way a lot of people are killed in combat.

Just my 2¢s

B

 

[The_Fur]

could this foreign bullet by any chance be the 7.62x39? (AK and AKSU standard ammo).


Crosshairs are for wimps

Killing stupid people is not just a hobby, it's a way of life.

 

[Angel Of Death]

I'll measure it... I don't think it is because the symbol on the botom doesn't look like Russian writing. More like hieroglyphics.

Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines

 

[WhammoBlammo]

I think that for the purposes of the game, whilst it's trying to be as real as possible, any incapacitating wound should be regarded as being fatal. Since you will effectively be out of action.
I know of one person who survived a hit from a 50 cal, but I think that ANY hit to the head/torso/upper legs should be regarded as a "lethal" injury.
For those people who want to know more about wound ballistics, I suggest you look up a book: "Would Ballistics" by Vincent DiMaio.

 

[WhammoBlammo]

Angel Of Death

Post details of your foreign cartridge and I will ID it for you.
I need: Case length, case neck diameter (where the bullet goes), and the Rim diameter (bottom of the case) (Apologies if I'm treating you as an idiot
If you could also post a pic of the Headstamp that would be great.

Tony

 

[Draco-1]

LordBunker:
Yes, he survived that. We're not arguing against long-term results, just the short term as dictated by a computer game.

AFter taking that rod through his brain, could he:
Immediately stand up?
Remain standing for 5 minutes?
Pick up something like a weapon, and fire at a moving target?

More than likely, he was incapacitated until medical help could arrive. And that help was more than likely EMTs who are trained to prevent injuries from getting worse, so that the victim can be taken AWAY to skilled professionals who can then heal him properly. A field medic would not be able to heal an injury like that.

Additionally, I don't care how big that rod was, it wasn't travelling at the speeds a .50BMG would. Velocity has a DIRECT relation to how much energy an object has, and thereby, the damage.

So, let's say a .50 bullet hit this guy, traveled through his head in much the same manner as this rod, and exited.

*WARNING: Graphic description ahead!*

First, the head is like a waterballoon. When that bullet hits, a shockwave is sent through the head. The weight of a .50cal bullet coupled with it's speed, means that this shockwave will probabaly crush the brain against the skull, rupturing every bloodvessel. Instant and total cranial hemmorage.

Second, as the bullet travels through this liquid-filled envelope, pulling this shockwave behind, it's building a MASSIVE high-pressure zone infront of it. When this is pressed between the bullet and the other side of the skull, the skull will give way with explosive force. Something the size of a .50cal bullet will blow out the other half of the skull, taking a large chunk of interior tissue with it. This is why, when someone is hit in the head, the head jerks TOWARDS the origin of the bullet, not stuck away from it.

I'm no physician, or expert in ballistics. This is just simple physics. Force = Mass x Accelleration. The speed at which these bullets travel, make up for their small mass. Use a bullet that masses as much as the .50BMG with as much, or more velocity as a smaller round, and you'll see some numbers fly by that look like a bug-meets-windshield scenario.

The robar _should_ be a one-hit-kill(incapacitate) weapon.

 

[ThunderChunky]

Actually...

Instead of F=ma, you probably want the momentum equation, which is p = mv (momentum = mass * velocity)...

Simple equations considering ideal circumstances (plug in some numbers for yourself and see):

m = mass (m1 = mass of first object)
v = velocity (same as above)
v' = final velocity (same as above)

Elastic collision (bullet comes to a complete stop transferring all kinetic energy to target - like a billiard ball):

m1v1 + m2v2 = m1v1' + m2v2'
v2 - v1 = v1' - v2'

Two equations, solve...

Non-elastic collision (bullet stays with target - like throwing clay)

m1v1 + m2v2 = (m1 + m2)v'

Any more complicated than this, Mr. Calculus comes into the equation (wohoo!!! Nerd Pun!!! ), but this can give you a general idea of the numbers being discussed...

Sorry about the physics lesson...

-------------------------------------------
Stupid People Offend Me.

"The most costly of all follies is to believe passionately in the palpably not true. It is the chief occupation of mankind" -H.L. Mencken

 

[Draco-1]

Heh, a friend of mine is going for his Doctorate in Inorganic Chemistry. In one of his physics classes, the prof. told him this:

All you truly need to know about Physics is Force = Mass x Accelleration, and you can't push on a rope.

 

[HanD_of_DarKNesS]

Ammo...

Since the game makes extensive use of 5.56, 5.7 and 7.62 ammo, can anyone upload an image comparing these three rounds graphically (possibly beside a 9mm for reference)?

For you, the end is near.

 

[Angel Of Death]

That depends on the size of the bullet (39mm, 51, etc.). The 5.56 would be about as big as the 270 (bullet and all), and the 7.62 wouldn't be much bigger.

Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines

 

[Col.Sanders]

AOD: we found something to agree about!

Yes, the sniper dominates open-field warfare. FPS gamers don't realize this.
In real life, the lack of trained snipers and good rifles, the ability of any infantry unit to call in tons of explosive on a sniper, and the proliferation of IR sights on tanks make the sniper much more vulnerable than in the past.

I think that foreign cartridge of yours, with the weird letters is either a 7.62x51mm NATO from an Arab country, or a 8x57mm Mauser from Egypt.

The .50 BMG has a case length of 99mm, the 270 is based off the .30-06, which is 63mm, and the 12 guage is either 70mm or 76mm (2 3/4 and 3" respectively) when fired.

Can you take a closer picture of it with a ruler next to it?

 

[Angel Of Death]

Take a picture of which one? The foreign one?

It might be a 7.62 but you can't really tell without the bullet, ya know.

I'll go take it now.

Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines

 

[Lord_Bunker]

actually a better equasion might be e=1/2mv^2.

i think instead of instant death in a big fire fight you should get those last few adrenaline fild seconds to pump somebody full o led. imagine a suicide charge with your ak on full auto. even if you do get dropped. the muscles in your hand don't relax right way so your gun would keep on spraying and you could possibly take a few people with ya.

Can you spot the sniper?

Too Late!