On going issues from a gunners perspective.

[Zaknafein]

1) The movement isn't to the level it was in u2xmp. The dodge delay in UTXMP has me feeling very limited when facing ranger and tech classes. This gunner's shoes are made for dancing, but it feels like someone slipped in some lead weights into the soles.

If you are worried about movement bind exploits then just deny (or limit) movement binds in the user ini file via a file scan and plug the n52/zboard endurance exploit by setting a sprint + dodge to eat a fixed amount of endurance.

2) Can we do something about losing the target and crosshair when we use the flamethrower? Perhaps reduce the alpha of the flamethrower to 50% for the gunner firing it?

3) The primary fire damage of the Flamethrower is very weak in comparison to u2xmp.

4) Flamethrower alt fire is far more visible then the u2xmp version. With as short as it lasts in both versions, the suprise factor was all that made it viable. Perhaps if you extended the duration significantly the new visibility would be ok.

5) Conc grenades arn't having their vital effect on vehicles that they did in u2xmp.

6) The blind effect for the conc grenade is far too short at the moment.

7) Mines are still exploding on their own near portals, on ledges, and well .. just randomly at odd times.

8) You can't switch weapon while reloading. This severely hurts the gunner due to the really long loading times of their weapons.

9) You can't switch your weapon while you are locking onto targets with the Rocket Launcher alt fire. This was an important thing for gunners so that they could abort their shot and do something else instead.

Much shorter list then it used to be ... good job overall with the progress. Still have a lot to do, but I know you can get it there.

-Zak

 

[GotBeer?]

I have to ask about the conc blinding effect. In the video thread, they showed 1st-person conc jumping where the jumper wasn't completely blinded, the screen was just brightened a bit. Is that the actual in-game effect (don't have it yet myself)? Is that also the effect for anyone else hit by the conc grenade?

Having seen only pics, I still have to agree about the napalm. It looks built-up from the floor, almost like a hedge. It does need to be less visible.

Of course, you can all tell me to just stfu until I've actually played. I like the abuse.

 

[fireball]

Conc-jumping fully blinds you.

 

[Gumby]

Gunner movement seems to be better than that of the ranger here

 

[Zaknafein]

I doubt that, but regardless, that has no bearing on the status of gunner movement.

 

[SwiftPaladin]

[SARCASM]Shame on you Gumby for thinking a class movement is only good or bad in relation to the other classes.[/SARCASM]

 

[Zaknafein]

Gumby?

Edit: Oh, nm. Couldn't read his sig ... yellow on white .. yuck

 

[PhatAzz]

Gunner movement seems to be better than that of the ranger here

That pause everyone is getting after the dodge jump is not class specific. It affects movement for the gunner, ranger, and tech. Once the crosshairs, sniping distance, and pistols are fixed, this pause will benefit the rangers the most, gunners next, and lastly techs - only because their primary weapons(sg and ar) kinda spread damage out more so than require well timed shots. Alt shotty does require this timing and the pause will help the tech in this regard.

Contrary to popular belief, you really need to time and place your rockets accordingly as a gunner. It takes anticipation skills and pattern movement recognition to be good at this. With the pause, it will help gunners because we can anticipate it and aim for that.

 

[PhatAzz]

1) The movement isn't to the level it was in u2xmp.

If you are worried about movement bind exploits then just deny (or limit) movement binds in the user ini file via a file scan and plug the n52/zboard endurance exploit by setting a sprint + dodge to eat a fixed amount of endurance.

I was under the impression that the movement issues were non-intentional. Anyhow, it's hard to police the use of macro's in the nostromo's or other input gaming devices such as advanced mice. Part of the problem you run into is that the average human can double tap a key in about .12 seconds. Some people who are making an effort on speed can do it as fast at 0.06 seconds. At the current stage the pause looks like it denies dodge command for 0.18 or 0.20 seconds before accepting another dodge command. No matter how you try to adjust for this macroing, people can macro out time as well, so making a delay just doesn't do anything except make the macroer put in a delay.

I'm not sure about how the n52/zboard exploit works, so dunno how to counter it.

2) Can we do something about losing the target and crosshair when we use the flamethrower?

Agreed.

3) The primary fire damage of the Flamethrower is very weak in comparison to u2xmp.

I think part of this is that we don't have headshots in yet. I'm not sure how the u2xmp code was set up but I'm sure if you were spreading the wealth some of the flame was headshot so it caused much more damage. Probably fixed after hs is implemented.

4) Flamethrower alt fire is far more visible then the u2xmp version.

The alt fire is useless period, even with zak's recommendations. It would just be better if you used alt fire, it left a cannister of flame thrower liquid which wasn't a mine, took little or no energy, but it could be exploded if shot at or something. I know no energy is not an option since there would be negative effect for leaving 1000 cannisters, but a thought to play about.

5) Conc grenades arn't having their vital effect on vehicles that they did in u2xmp.

Take the damage effect of alt AR from tech and switch it with the conj grenade.

6) The blind effect for the conc grenade is far too short at the moment.

Actually, I'll comment on this at a latter time, but the blindness DOES last long enough. I'd like to see your settings zak cause some people say it is too short and to some people too long. If I conc jump, I'm blinded and CAN'T see until I land +3 to 4 seconds.

7) Mines are still exploding on their own

Big problem...can't do defense with gunner effectively = can't scrim with gunner doing defense well = crippled scrim/clan play.

8) You can't switch weapon while reloading. This severely hurts the gunner due to the really long loading times of their weapons.

I don't mind this change so much as long as the reload times are the same for all weapons, including ranger and tech. Yes the rocket launcher is huuuge, so is the gunner, so reloading for the gunner shouldn't be that bad. A ranger reloading a rocket launcher on the other hand...pansy azz rangers...

9) You can't switch your weapon while you are locking onto targets with the Rocket Launcher alt fire.

I know it would matter to me, but to the average or noob player, not being able to abort the shot means just one less rocket in the current magazine. For seasoned players, 1 less rocket means earlier reload which sucks.

 

[BetaButterfly]

Gunner movement seems to be better than that of the ranger here

Sorry, I had to giggle when I read that.

I've found getting up from the bottom of SunsetBeach is, by far, most easily done as gunner.

 

[Zaknafein]

I'm not sure about how the n52/zboard exploit works, so dunno how to counter it.

Endurance usage in u2xmp was based on the amount of time that the sprint key was pressed. So an n52 could press it for a millisecond and start the sprint+dodge then release ... causing almost no endurance usage at all. This is how techs can seemlessly dodge back and forth forever spamming their spread fire shotguns. The solution is simple ... you have a minimum endurance usage for a sprint+dodge.

I think part of this is that we don't have headshots in yet. I'm not sure how the u2xmp code was set up but I'm sure if you were spreading the wealth some of the flame was headshot so it caused much more damage. Probably fixed after hs is implemented.

Naw, it goes well beyond headshots ... The damage is just not there.

The alt fire is useless period, even with zak's recommendations. It would just be better if you used alt fire, it left a cannister of flame thrower liquid which wasn't a mine, took little or no energy, but it could be exploded if shot at or something. I know no energy is not an option since there would be negative effect for leaving 1000 cannisters, but a thought to play about.

Well I always found some limited use for it, but any beafing up of the alt fire would be welcomed.

Take the damage effect of alt AR from tech and switch it with the conj grenade.

Its not the damage. Conc nades in u2xmp sent vehicles flying. Was very important for when faced with a jug. You could cause it to flip over or at the least completely throw off their aim.

I don't mind this change so much as long as the reload times are the same for all weapons, including ranger and tech. Yes the rocket launcher is huuuge, so is the gunner, so reloading for the gunner shouldn't be that bad. A ranger reloading a rocket launcher on the other hand...pansy azz rangers...

Then number of shots would have to be the same as well. We both know that not going to happen. I think its better for the game to allow switching while reloading ... speeds the pace of the game up and keeps it feeling like good old u2xmp.

 

[PhatAzz]

So an n52 could press it for a millisecond and start the sprint+dodge then release ... causing almost no endurance usage at all. The solution is simple ... you have a minimum endurance usage for a sprint+dodge.

Yes, that could be the solution. Actually, the time to hit shift and double tap would have to be about 3 key timing, so you could make minimum endurance usage to be at least 0.18s or around 0.25s minimum for each press. That way, if someone is holding down the shift key for 0.35s it would be better than hitting it twice in a row with the above exploit because you loose 0.5s (if the minimum was 0.25) for each press. You could play around with this number to find one that worked out well.

Well I always found some limited use for it, but any beafing up of the alt fire would be welcomed.

Actually, I was thinking about perhaps a vial of flame thrower liquid dropped and it auto combusts after say 1 minute but it can be exploded by weapons but only causes flame damage if walked over.

Its not the damage. Conc nades in u2xmp sent vehicles flying. Was very important for when faced with a jug.

Sorry, I meant the weapon effect. If you shoot the jug with the alt AR from tech, it sends it bouncing around, like it was for the conc grenade in u2xmp. So if you switched the physics between the alt fire on the AR and what we have now on the concussion grenade, I think it would be about right.

Then number of shots would have to be the same as well. We both know that not going to happen. I think its better for the game to allow switching while reloading ... speeds the pace of the game up and keeps it feeling like good old u2xmp.

Perhaps, what we could have to make this fair, is if you run out and are reloading a weapon, to auto switch to open weapon slot, if you are using say the flame thrower and run out, it defaults to the first available weapon from 1 to 5, so you'd go to rockets, while reloading.

I guess the point is, to make this fair for noobs and stuff. If everyone could reload while changing weapons it would be fair. Autoswitch weapon when it's reloading, but the person will have to switch back on their own.

Let me give more examples to make it more clear:
If using weapon slot 1 -> you reload -> goes to weapon slot 2 if available, if not 3, etc etc

If using weapon slot 2 -> you reload -> goes to weapon slot 1 if available, if not 3, etc etc

If using weapon slot 3 -> you reload -> goes to weapon slot 1 if available, if not 2, etc etc

Anyhow, I think that FMI is trying to make the game more noob friendly so we have a larger player base.

 

[Gumby]

Yes, that could be the solution. Actually, the time to hit shift and double tap would have to be about 3 key timing, so you could make minimum endurance usage to be at least 0.18s or around 0.25s minimum for each press. That way, if someone is holding down the shift key for 0.35s it would be better than hitting it twice in a row with the above exploit because you loose 0.5s (if the minimum was 0.25) for each press. You could play around with this number to find one that worked out well.

And ruin trick jumping why not?!!

Zak i take it the tech comment was aimed at Omni

Lets all wait patiently for the patch, then continue our constructive criticisms when we've played it

 

[GotBeer?]

Conc-jumping fully blinds you.

So, the movement video was made with hax?

 

[PhatAzz]

Yes, that could be the solution. Actually, the time to hit shift and double tap would have to be about 3 key timing, so you could make minimum endurance usage to be at least 0.18s or around 0.25s minimum for each press. That way, if someone is holding down the shift key for 0.35s it would be better than hitting it twice in a row with the above exploit because you loose 0.5s (if the minimum was 0.25) for each press. You could play around with this number to find one that worked out well.

And ruin trick jumping why not?!!

How does anything I said have any relationship to trick jumping? Might actually make it easier since person will sprint no matter what for 0.25 seconds(if that was the minimum).

 

[fireball]

So, the movement video was made with hax?

Or before that feature was added, more likely.