On behalf of The_Fur, myself, and other scout-snipers/counter-snipers

[Blackwing]

First off, I'd like to say hi what with this being my first post and second I'd like to comment to the remark about only our marines (I'm from Brabant, don't piss me off using Steyr-scouts:

Now scout rifles aren't my specialty (I prefer the Ingram 'Mac-10' UZI) but I do know Steyr is Austrian (I have a friend in Austria who's been naggin' my ass off 'cause he's going into the military and he's gonna get a Steyr Aug.) and therefor it's rather likely that they're alos used in Germany, Belgium and Italy (maybe not in bulk, but used nontheless).

 

[poaw]

May ShakKen have mercy on your soul.

 

[jaunty]

Hand me the newspaper. The carpet has been soiled.

I dont really consider the opinions of anyone who "preferes a MAC-10" very highly. But it's your first post, so welcome, read the FAQ, and live by the following rules.

1) Mentioning the Steyr AUG, MAC10 or any other '1337 weapon' in my presence, or ShaKKen's presence must be coupled with the phrase "does not deserve to see military service", "is such a waste of time, money and effort" or something similar.

2) No mention of the Desert Eagle (Dessert Bagle, Deagle, DE, DE .50, or any other counter-strike induced acronyms) without the words "is a crap gun which does not deserve to be in infiltration" or "should not have left the factory".

3) (For your own safety) Do not question the knowledge of Gryphon or ShaKKen, unless you ARE Gryphon or ShaKKen.

easy

Now moving onto your post.

I doubt the Scout would see a great deal of service with the bundswher considering their almost exclusivley outfitted by HK. And why wouldn't you be, considering the factory is in their country.

It's an ideal alternative to the PSG1 for urban environments though, providing yu've got the testicular fortitude to go from a semi-auto to a bolt action weapon.

Anyway, we'll find out tomorrow or the day after what the team thinks when warren gives his weekly update on InfRadio and on these very forums.

 

[poaw]

OK I have now stopped laughing long enough to right a proper response.

I prefer the Ingram 'Mac-10' UZI

Here is you first mistake: assuming that a "cool" weapon is a good weapon. Also from your statement one could come to one of three conclusions:

1) You somehow got ahold of an Uzi and a MAC-10, and then re-engineered them into one gun.

2) You have named your MAC-10 "UZI".

3) In an orgy of firearms ignorance, you have mistakenly declared the MAC-10 and the IMI Uzi as the same weapon.

 

[ShakKen]

May ShakKen have mercy on your soul.

poaw: I have to quote you on that mate

 

[Blackwing]

Considdering you're probably not very knowledgable in this area p) 'Uzi' is a type of gun, not ONE gun particular. I'm talking about the Mac-10 Uzi version (I prefer it 'cause it's the first gun I've ever fired), I've been told there are other versions, but I've never seen one. The reason I mentioned the Steyr aug is 'cause it's Steyr and it's Austrian, not 'cause it's 'l337' and Desert Eagles are the weapons of choice for every movie, which proves beyond a doubt that people who make movies know about as much about guns as I do about making movies.

(by the way I should have said Ingram Mac-10 'Uzi', not Ingram 'Mac-10' Uzi)

 

[Dr.Dase]

The Ingram SMGs are actually not all that 1337 weapons that people seem to think of them, just because it's in CS and other mods doesn't mean they're 1337 weps. IIRC it was designed in the sixties, for spec ops or something, and was issued with a suppressor, that doubled as a muzzlebrake, needed because of the high ROF. A while ago, Steyr designed their Steyr TMP, which is extremely similar, only more modern, with modern materials etc, but IMO the Mac series would be a lot better if they were modernized, because of their folding stock that takes up very little extra space.

But as a serious SMG, it's a joke, pretty much useless at range, but as a machine pistol, very useful. It's compact, has a high ROF, and a folding stock for longer range shooting.

 

[Luminuis]

Blackwing, who are you calling "not knowledgable"?


Because I'd understand if you were like meaning "I am not very knowledgable in this field" because an UZI is a GUN, not a type of gun, it is officially the IMI UZI, and is of the type SMG/Machine Pistol, the type you are refering to is the Machine pistol, which may be commonly refered to as an UZI by the movie industry but make no mistake, there is only ONE UZI


And may GOD have mercy on your soul when ShakKen get's done with you.


please ShakKen, fill him in on thew details of the Uzi and the MAC-10,

 

[poaw]

And one last thing before I turn in for the night. It's not UZI, it's Uzi. As in the name of the guy who designed it.

 

[ShakKen]

Blackwing: I'm afraid I have to step in here because your information on the MAC-10 is completely incorrect.

The MAC-10 and the Uzi are two differant submachineguns. Although similar they are sufficiently differant not to be confused as the same weapon IF you are paying attention.

When you speak about the Uzi, you speak of THIS weapon in particular.

http://www.remtek.com/arms/imi/uzi/uzi.htm

The weapon, as poaw said, IS indeed names after the Israeli who designed the weapon.

The MAC-10 is simply the M10 submachinegun as designed by Gordon B. Ingram produced by Military Armament Corp.

In general, referring to the weapon as the MAC-10 is often wrong because M10s are produced by more than half a dozen companies.

The 'Uzi' is NOT a 'type of weapon'. It is the name given to a specific series of firearms and can only be used in referance to those firearms and the derivitive clones of such. Such as the Vektor Uzi clone.

The Uzi and the MAC-10 themselves are totally differant. They both fire from an open bolt, they both use vertical feed magazines, but surely there is NO mistaking this;

Uzi

for this;

Ingram M10/9

Unless you work at EIDOS. Performance wise these two guns are also VERY differant.

Also, most these folk here know this already, so if I were you I'd be very careful about you who say is "not very knowledgable in this area".

 

[Blackwing]

my apologies ...... I checked with my farther, and it's not an Ingram Mac 10 'Uzi' it's a Mac-10/Uzi 'halfbreed', my father likes to customize his weapons and so he set himsef to the task of modifying a Mac-10 with Uzi parts (and some part from other SMG's and a semi-auto. Hg).

So I'm very sorry for the frustration I must've caused. (and the semi-insult I made).

I thought I was right, turns out I wasn't.
It happens and Infiltration still rox!

 

[TheSniper]

I see nothing special about that rifle, theres alot better rifles out there.

 

[jaunty]

Its the best rifle in its class as far as i'm concerned.

But if you can find me a better rifle that fits the same criteria, i'd certainly be impressed.

EDIT: Apology accepted, blackwing. You've made my favourite n00b list of people who can actually accept their mistakes. Well done.

 

[TheSniper]

"Sig Sauer SG 550"

"T.C.I. M89-SR"

"Brown Tactical Elite"

M95 "Nomad"

"Walther WA2000"

list goes on....

 

[jaunty]

Welcome to jaunty's smackdown corner.

First, go read the definition of a scout rifle. It in the second post of this thread.

That therefore eliminates the Sig SG550 and quite possibly the Browning Tactical Elite.

The walther WA2000 (as ShaKKen has already said) is too expensive, and too hard to maintain under battlefield conditions. Congratulations for reading that.


The only possibility is the M95 nomad. But i'm not too knowledgable about that.

You seem to be missing the whole point of this thread.

I want to see a SCOUT RIFLE included into infiltration.

The definition of scout rifle is in the first page of this thread. The Steyr Scout is best suited to the job because it was designed specificaly FOR the job. AFAIK there are no other rifles designed solely for the pourpose of being a scout rifle.

Now bend over.. theres a newspaper coming your way.

 

[TheSniper]

I put in the SIG because thats the sniper I want to see in INF. But the others fit into ur litle scout list.

 

[ShakKen]

You guys are probably going to hate me for this, but personally, I don't really think that the Scout has much of niche in the modern battlefield of super-accurate long bolt-actions and semi-automatic rifles.

There's nothing really it can do that rifles at both ends of the spectrum can't. No true advantage other than being a jack of all trades.

 

[jaunty]

True, it doesn't do anything that other rifles can't.

But at present, the two sniper rifles are too heavy to be used by scouts, and the MP5 doesn't have enough range for the larger maps.

The scout is a good medium weight compromise.


BTW: ShaKKen, how come your never in IRC?

 

[ShakKen]

Well, if you evaluate it in another way, the Scout's range bracket, is what? in the 400-500 meter range? Most bolt actions are expected to do headshots at 600 meters and get one hit kills out to 800.

400-500 meters is already within the range bracket of modern assault rifles.

Take for example this excerpt out of Peter G. Kolkakis' review.

"Furthermore, the turn-bolt, except in the hands of a dedicated and highly trained sniper, is an anachronism on today's battlefield. Today's military scout would be far better equipped to meet with, and destroy, the enemy in "shoot and scoot" scenarios armed with an M4, Steyr AUG or Kalashnikov than a short-barreled bolt-action. The scout rifle is a superb instrument for the game field, but not combat. I have personally hunted in Africa using a Scout Rifle with great success on impala at ranges out to 300 yards."

Because IRC is the devil.

 

[Sebu_NZ]

Hey, I know about the WA-2000 not suiting battlefield conditions but is it true that only like 74 were made?